I congratulate you for having a successful, free-thinking son and hope and
aspire to allow my own to have an opportunity for that same free-thought,
inquiry, and hopefully a lifelong passion for learning and a continual
wonder for the things that we can know in this world.

All respect,
Jeff Pickens

————————————————–

The sodalities of the Catholic church and outreach and protections offered by the church were in no way duplicated by the public school culture. Quite the opposite and in the extreme. I think others from other generations and backgrounds may have had other and kinder experiences with the outer culture than we did.

I also have to agree with ricorun that there were some deadly ill teachers in parochial school, as there were in public school; they were rare in either setting, but harmful and again, it was a time when, at least where we lived, there was no child protection agency in the rural outback, and adults often unthinkingly felt children had done something to deserve being beaten and humiliated.

Those painful harms would seldom fly today, thank all angels and saints and awakened souls for awakening.

One of the things I learned sadly was that what was preached in the provincial outback where I grew up was that we ought submit… but by midage I was attending a city church that was of the middlle class and the preaching was that we ought own the world. That forked tongue preaching is still one of the saddest to my sense of justice.

just my two cents worth.
dr.e

Now, having said all that, I also want to say that most of my experiences with the Catholic Church have been positive. Most of the priests I've known over the years (and they have been many, in many capacities) I've found to be very thoughtful, and most of those very reasonable. On the other hand, I'm inclined to agree with AustinRoth in the sense that bishops tend to be a different breed altogether. Nuns as well. And what's weird is, the nuns that manage to climb the hierarchy (such as it is — it's a very sexist set-up) tend to be more thoughtful and tolerant. It's their minions that tend to be goofy. With priests it's the other way around.

“…the desire to shelter a child in a parochial school setting during formative years wherein there is likely to be ongoing conversation about spirit and soul and golden rule and good works…”

I guess what I'd add, now that I've evolved from my prior “belief” system, is that those virtues of wholesomeness, charity and love can be taught wherever one is in life, in light of, or despite the reigning societal religion.

“…I think of that as a parent's trying to fulfill safe passage for a beloved child on a cultural river 'out there' that is filled with snipers who mean to distort and maim.”

This is at least what I was taught the whole of my religious life, that “the out-there world” was antagonistic, even hostile to our better spiritual selves.

However, I no longer regard those who have different worldviews, or those from different cultures (those members of that “cultural river”) as “snipers” or as necessarily intent on distortion or maiming. [As a matter of fact, I'd hesitate to use a "parochial-school setting" as a particularly good example of a safe-haven for many children.]

The culture is what we choose to make of it. Politically free secular cultures are presently doing quite nicely in terms of happiness, longevity, safety, health and security.

I understand the intent of the post from archangel, and admire and respect it–I just wanted to clarify some of the content from a different perspective.

I think that was good Pete to send your child there. I appreciate the instinct and the follow through, and in many cases of parents who so choose, the sacrifices financially and otherwise.

I am sorry this man is the last sawblade on the sheaves. I do note what you note: sometimes a decent and warm parish fellow when 'making' bishop or cardinal seems to turn into a different person, far more politicial rather than holy, and perhaps, that is why they are chosen; to defend the Pope; sort of like the VP candidates, only in Catholicism they're called prelates. For certain, there seem to be too many golden-ringed and watered silk kings and princes in the mix. But, I digress.

Knowing you as I do, following your writing heart, I know whatever nourished you even a little from the deeper ideals carried by Catholic social justice teachings or any of the magisterium, you will carry this with you, along with all the other good works in you prior to conversion, as you find your way elsewhere now.

We may go to different temples, Pete, but we're all still walking along together.

I feel sad, but I understand.

this comes with peace,
dr.e,

LOL! Thanks, Marlowecan. No one is perfect and I think the process of striving to live a better life is what is most important. For Christians that means starting with the Ten Commandments. Other religions have other tenets. If we do make mistakes, then we ask for forgiveness. I think being human means being imperfect, but we have the knowledge and ability to lead better lives through choice. It's how and what we choose that is most important.

If one were to ask a single question and base one's actions on that, then the bishop's logic applies.

But Obama has said our goal should be to have policies in place which encourage women to make pro-life decisions…. So Obama may be more permissive towards abortions, but he also believes in policies which lower abortions. Part of that may be looking at the root causes (and education) and part of that is encouraging programs which make it easier for a woman to take care of her child, whether it's through workplace daycare programs, etc. To me it's clear that a candidate who supports programs that encourage life and the well-being of humans is the better candidate to endorse. The GOP these days would probably consider such programs to be welfare… (and the programs could be run by the gov't, a company or non-profit).

Andrew Sullivan yesterday referenced a site that encouraged him that I thought was worth a read on a variety of issues, including these “wedge” issues:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10…

“Now that my son is out of the parochial hold and off to a (very) secular college, I don’t feel compelled to continue the dodging dance.”

Regarding religious choices, Pete: lots to think about. It does now fascinate me that we modify our behaviors and beliefs in such ways that we think our kids will benefit by, and when they are “safely out of earshot” so to speak we can let down our guard and really live our convictions. How do you think they might benefit if we were honestly living out our convictions in their presence? This is not a personal criticism, it's just a reflection of human nature and I'd be curious to know your thoughts, since this was a religious post.

I still believe that the mother must always be offered the right to terminate her pregnancy during the first trimester, but have come to the conclusion that there should be “good cause” in justification of a third trimester termination. I'm still working on my personal definition of “good cause”, and haven't yet firmed up my position on abortions during the second trimester (or, to be more accurate, abortions after the point at which out-of-womb viability is possible).

What's most interesting and hopeful is to find myself, at 67 years, still evolving on this issue. And if I – a diehard feminist democrat (mother and grandmother) – am changing my position, then who else?

Asian Buddhists of my acquaintance look down on American Buddhism, which is a largely a la carte affair. In terms of most religions, I think Americans like to pick-and-choose this or that element from a larger spiritual system.

While heresy and apostasy is widespread in most religions, these are often communal rejections. In America, it seems this is more atomistic, with individuals deciding to pick and choose what they follow.

Islam is non-hierarchical, but probably the most resistant to secularism of all religions in the world I suspect. We have seen in the Middle East how it has deep antibodies to modernity, in a way Hinduism or even Buddhism in India and East Asia do not possess.

Pete, why not just accept that you are a sinner and you are going to Hell? It can be liberating. I suspect you will find many folks from TMV sharing your fiery pit with you. . . for ALL ETERNITY!!!

The following (with the rainbow triangle on its sign at Forsyth & Big Bend),

http://www.bethel-ucity.org/asp/default.asp

has a Religious Left affiliation (see below) You might find this to be an antidote.

http://www.lcna.org/