Comments on: The Two Republican Parties http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:36:32 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159803 JSpencer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:23:30 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159803 Correction SD, it was you who brought up the subject of creationism. Not that it matters. Correction SD, it was you who brought up the subject of creationism. Not that it matters.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159800 superdestroyer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:06:26 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159800 Jspencer, <br><br>you were the one who brought up supersition taught in public schools and implied that only white Republicans ever do it. <br><br>The split is really between the inside the beltway types who believe that the Republican party can be the second big government, big spending, big daddy for everyone party and those who want less. Noonan is a beltway type who wants the believes that the Republicans can achieve a majority through pork barrel spending and election gimmicks. <br><br>Even though Palin is an idiot and a bad example, he appeal to people who would like the government smaller. The Republican pundits have decided to run away from that idea. That is also the difference between the radio talk show set and the beltway pundit set. Jspencer,

you were the one who brought up supersition taught in public schools and implied that only white Republicans ever do it.

The split is really between the inside the beltway types who believe that the Republican party can be the second big government, big spending, big daddy for everyone party and those who want less. Noonan is a beltway type who wants the believes that the Republicans can achieve a majority through pork barrel spending and election gimmicks.

Even though Palin is an idiot and a bad example, he appeal to people who would like the government smaller. The Republican pundits have decided to run away from that idea. That is also the difference between the radio talk show set and the beltway pundit set.

]]> By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159792 JSpencer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:22:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159792 SD, congrats on your googling skills, but none of that has much relationship to the subject at hand, which is about the ideological split going on within the republican party. Apologies for encouraging your strawman argument to begin with, my bad. SD, congrats on your googling skills, but none of that has much relationship to the subject at hand, which is about the ideological split going on within the republican party. Apologies for encouraging your strawman argument to begin with, my bad.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159755 superdestroyer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:21:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159755 Jspencer, <br><br>How soon the left has forgotten ebonics <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics:_The_True_Language_of_Black_Folks">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics:_The_True_...</a>, afro-centric education <a href="http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-out.htm">http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-ou...</a> , or maybe black urban legends <a href="http://www.jstor.org/pss/2211642">http://www.jstor.org/pss/2211642</a> . Jspencer,

How soon the left has forgotten ebonics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics:_The_True_..., afro-centric education http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-ou... , or maybe black urban legends http://www.jstor.org/pss/2211642 .

]]> By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159743 JSpencer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:58:30 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159743 SC, you have a valid point about the challenges of "learning" in our society, and while the inner city schools obviously have their share of problems, they are not where the push for creationism is coming from, nor are they the ones trying to insert superstition into govt. or the classroom. If we want to look at all the places in our society where learning is pushed aside in favor of distraction or entertainment we could write a book. SC, you have a valid point about the challenges of “learning” in our society, and while the inner city schools obviously have their share of problems, they are not where the push for creationism is coming from, nor are they the ones trying to insert superstition into govt. or the classroom. If we want to look at all the places in our society where learning is pushed aside in favor of distraction or entertainment we could write a book.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159737 superdestroyer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:13:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159737 Jspencer, <br><br>If you go into inner city schools, how many of them teach evolution versus how many of them openly talk about religion. I personally believe creationist are idiots but why is every conservative painted as an anti-learning idiot when it is the Democratic party that has produce the inner city schools where almost no learning takes place? Jspencer,

If you go into inner city schools, how many of them teach evolution versus how many of them openly talk about religion. I personally believe creationist are idiots but why is every conservative painted as an anti-learning idiot when it is the Democratic party that has produce the inner city schools where almost no learning takes place?

]]> By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159715 JSpencer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:21:45 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159715 SD, it's fine if you want to believe in creationism, just don't try to pass it off as science and put it in the classroom. Therein lies the difference; keep it in the church and out of politics. In otherwords, your comparison is invalid. <br><br>Robert, I agree, if the GOP loses (and they fully deserve to) then they have much soul searching to do... if they can find the soul to search that is. The Peggy Noonan quote at the end of your piece is exactly on the mark. SD, it's fine if you want to believe in creationism, just don't try to pass it off as science and put it in the classroom. Therein lies the difference; keep it in the church and out of politics. In otherwords, your comparison is invalid.

Robert, I agree, if the GOP loses (and they fully deserve to) then they have much soul searching to do… if they can find the soul to search that is. The Peggy Noonan quote at the end of your piece is exactly on the mark.

]]> By: DaveA http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159703 DaveA Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:23:51 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159703 If it becomes irreIevant, its because it fails to adopt and metaphorically contemplates its' navel. The party needs is some flexibility to reinvent and mainstream itself again, and maybe to grow a moral center that no longer says the ends justify the means.<br><br>Unfortuntely, that is not yet what's happening, given the powers that be seem quite tied to Rovian/fundamentalist mindset. Flexibility is also not a Rep strong suit, rather unity is. And, I will admit, that is going to be an issue as well until some sort of tipping point is reached internally.<br><br>I actually hope the defeat is a landslide, because I agree that not much elsewill speed the refoming process along. The thing is we saw the Dem party "almost on the ropes" 5-6 years ago. Dems were scared this would be it for them. Well, it did not take more than 5-6 years (admittedly aided by a deceidely incompetent W and Co) to turn that 180.<br><br>Thing is, give the Dems time. You can be sure they will screw up/become complacent/etc and leave an opening. The question will be, "Will the Rep party have stepped up to the plate by then and reinvented themselves?" Or, will they dig in with a bunker mentality and appeal ever more rightwards such that even eventual complacent/incompetence is prefferable to the average voter? <br><br>I would be quite happy to vote for the party of Goldwater. I hope that Reps (or someone) finds that again. But until that occurs, I am pretty much left voting Dem on quite a few choices. If it becomes irreIevant, its because it fails to adopt and metaphorically contemplates its' navel. The party needs is some flexibility to reinvent and mainstream itself again, and maybe to grow a moral center that no longer says the ends justify the means.

Unfortuntely, that is not yet what's happening, given the powers that be seem quite tied to Rovian/fundamentalist mindset. Flexibility is also not a Rep strong suit, rather unity is. And, I will admit, that is going to be an issue as well until some sort of tipping point is reached internally.

I actually hope the defeat is a landslide, because I agree that not much elsewill speed the refoming process along. The thing is we saw the Dem party “almost on the ropes” 5-6 years ago. Dems were scared this would be it for them. Well, it did not take more than 5-6 years (admittedly aided by a deceidely incompetent W and Co) to turn that 180.

Thing is, give the Dems time. You can be sure they will screw up/become complacent/etc and leave an opening. The question will be, “Will the Rep party have stepped up to the plate by then and reinvented themselves?” Or, will they dig in with a bunker mentality and appeal ever more rightwards such that even eventual complacent/incompetence is prefferable to the average voter?

I would be quite happy to vote for the party of Goldwater. I hope that Reps (or someone) finds that again. But until that occurs, I am pretty much left voting Dem on quite a few choices.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/23615/the-two-republican-parties/comment-page-1/#comment-159693 superdestroyer Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:06:52 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23615/the-two-republican-parties/#comment-159693 Maybe someone should ask Colin Powell how the more conservative party can be a big tent party. Look at how the Democratic Party at the same time can call anyone who is a creationist, an anti-learning idiot while black Democrats believe in creationsim more than white evangelicals? <br><br>Also, why wold anyone bother to fight over the Repulblican Party when demographic change in the U.S. will ensure that it will be irrelevant? Maybe someone should ask Colin Powell how the more conservative party can be a big tent party. Look at how the Democratic Party at the same time can call anyone who is a creationist, an anti-learning idiot while black Democrats believe in creationsim more than white evangelicals?

Also, why wold anyone bother to fight over the Repulblican Party when demographic change in the U.S. will ensure that it will be irrelevant?

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