Comments on: Political Posturing vs. Realistic Leadership – McCain and Obama (Debate Deux)

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:54:25 +0000

Exactly! The single best question that should have been asked last night: "In what ways is our current situation similar to the economic collapse that began in 1929, and in what ways is it different? How do you see the policies implemented then, in terms of broad policies that helped and those that unintentionally made the situation worse?"

OK, that's two questions, but you get the point.

I don't know though, one of the two candidates seems a bit more like Hoover to me and it's not McCain (protectionism, raising top tax bracket and closing tax loopholes...") That's not to say that Hoover was all wrong and FDR certainly wasn't entirely correct, but the GOP and Dems don't match up very well with their cohorts from that time.

By: ChrisWWW

ChrisWWW — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:22:41 +0000

Well.. the candidates could – but probably wont – attempt to actually educate the audience.

“We did X during the 1920s and it worsened the Depression.”

Pretty simple really. The Great Depression isn't exactly recent history, but like WWII it still evokes grim imagery.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:13:53 +0000

Yeah, I was just thinking about the comparisons of Hoover, FDR, Obama, McCain (in terms of, who's more like Hoover, and also thinking through where Hoover was wrong and where he was right, and the same for FDR) and yet really, if we can't remember something that happened such a short time ago then how in the hell can we think that voters are really going to know the history of depression era politics and to learn from that history?

By: ChrisWWW

ChrisWWW — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:06:02 +0000

It's unfortunate that the bridge collapse in Minnesota has receded so far from our minds.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:03:58 +0000

Good points, chris. And I think they're partly right about energy (Obama as usual said it better with his analogy to the dotcom expansion of the economy, though that too is a dangerous rhetorical device when you consider how that ended )

But I still think it's a tack that one of them could take, if they just avoid the language that would evoke FDR and New Deal (esp since so many people today probably don't even know about WPA and CCC projects.)

By: ChrisWWW

ChrisWWW — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:57:30 +0000

CStanley,
I think both candidates are being too careful in not resurrecting the ghost of FDR and end up looking like little Hoover's instead.

Both McCain and Obama are implying that striving for energy independence is the new WPA.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:54:04 +0000

And on the federal spending issue, am I the only one that is surprised that neither candidate floated the idea of increasing infrastructure project funding, a la the WPA programs of the depression era? Seems like someone would have threaded that needle, capturing the public's concern about aging (and failing) roads and bridges and fears about growing unemployment.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:47:29 +0000

I'm trying to think of the date when the meltdown first started- I guess maybe use Sept 14 when Lehman and Merril Lynch went down-because I think a case could be made that both candidates still have a Sept 13 mindset, just like many people often use the “September 10 mindset” to describe a worldview that didn't adjust to the revelation of terrorism threat that came on 9/11/01.

To add to your first point there about McCain saying he'd address all three of those issues, Chris, I also think it's important to note that addressing entitlement spending is absolutely essential, and I don' t think Obama even mentioned it.

By: ChrisWWW

ChrisWWW — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:27:23 +0000

On the second point regarding priorities McCain said that we can pursue health care, energy independence, and entitlement reform all at once, which is unrealistic and fiscally not possible in our economic situation

Matthew Yglesias has been making a great point that we can't stop spending money during an economic squeeze. By doing that, we'll kill and prolong the suffering, because the economy won't grow, it will contract.

Also, right now it'll be relatively easy to get favorable loans for federal spending. Better to borrow when the terms are good, right?

And I agree with CStanley. Obama didn't make a good case for national sacrifice either.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:19:55 +0000

How is Obama asking for sacrifice when he spends all of the time on the economic question talking about how the middle class needs to hear that they're getting a tax cut (which is a nice trick for the 40-something percent of Americans who don't pay income tax at all- we're into negative tax rate territory there...how progressive!)

Unfortunately McCain is completely unable to articulate what most people feel in their gut- that the federal coffers are not to be used as our personal emergency account.

When JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you," he wasn't just talking about creating the peace corps for idealistic kids to serve the country for a few years (however well guided that is.) At that time, culturally our society 'got it', that we each have to take responsibility for our personal lives and not look to government to bail us out for bad decisions.

It's to our great detriment (and I believe, our impending downward spiral) that we no longer see the world through that lens and that John McCain isn't able to lead us back there.

By: Payday Loan Advocate

Payday Loan Advocate — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:27:53 +0000

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By: DLS

DLS — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:42:14 +0000

I'll just repeat (one last time) that this week's Economist makes Obama and his team look like a better candidate for the Executive Branch than McCain and his “team.”

By: Polimom

Polimom — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:17:17 +0000

Tony, I also liked the sacrifice question. I've always felt that Bush's “just go shopping” suggestion was demeaning and condescending. And I've liked Obama's emphasis on increased civic involvement all along.

By: DLS

DLS — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:12:40 +0000

The sky is not falling. That's despite the idiotic sensationalism I saw on every newspaper I've seen today here in the Bay Area. (stupid Wall Street traders imitating a murder victim in a Hitchcock film)