Comments on: Less is More and the Ayers’ Association (Guest Voice)

By: VegasVoter

VegasVoter — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:31:25 +0000

Why would you contrast two people not engaged in this election? Wouldn't you agree that the contrast should be about the candidates that are running? I think folks are missing the point here. If it is character of the candidates you're evaluating than it should be McCain vs Obama. Let me remind you that it was McCain and not Obama that has to explain the Keating 5 criminal case and his illegal and ethnically inappropriate influence he consistently offered Keating and his savings and loan that reminds me of current events. If not for the “Washington” influence of the “White House” during that trial McCain probably wouldn't have the opportunity to run for the “highest” and most “powerful” office in America, but instead could have shared a prison cell with his longtime friend, supporter, advisor Mr. Keating. I'm still amazed how after there was sufficient proof of a crime the court allowed McCain a “get out of jail” card. It just reminds me that there isn't “justice for all” if you have money and influence. I suggest you go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDofbll86dY and get the real facts.

By: DLS

DLS — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:32:24 +0000

Elrod is a _lot_ more patient and grown up, etc., than you routinely are, Spence. It is I who am quite patient with you, and extremely generous and forgiving… [sigh]

I believe Obama should just address the issue clearly and _soundly_ once and for all and it's then wiped from the board in this “end game” that already has begun before the debates have ended.

Also, Elrod, review that material to which I posted links elsewhere, from this week's Economist. McCain can beat Obama on some issues, but Obama beats McCain soundly on others, above and beyond the leftish bias among those consulted in the case of economists. (The favoring of Obama among them cannot possibly be all due to such bias. Impossible. Look at the graphs.) Never mind Biden vs. Palin (even a rural US resident and presumably conservative quoted by the Economist called Palin an idiot from Alaska); Obama's team is “deep” whereas who knows who McCain will bring aboard with him? I suspect that in November the Economist will endorse Obama rather than McCain. Obama's clearly leading as of now.

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_Pres08...

[Continued divergence!]

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_Pres08...

By: JSpencer

JSpencer — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 03:34:25 +0000

Clearly Elrod is more patient than I am.

By: elrod

elrod — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:02:25 +0000

DLS,
A lot of it has to do with who Ayers is now. I lived in Chicago and remember a controversy swirling around his wife, Bernadette Dohrn. Ayers and Dohrn were known in Chicago circles as education activists and professors. They were certainly more left than right, but few people had any idea that they were involved in the Weathermen. Then a group of conservative Northwestern alumni protested Dohrn's appointment to the NU School of Law. It was more of a curiosity than anything else since neither Dohrn nor Ayers had ever attacked any person during the 1960s and the Weathermen are not exactly the most potent organization in America today.

Even Richard Daley, not exactly a friend of 1960s radicals (his father beat the crap out of them in 1968) has said that Ayers is a fairly legit figure in Chicago educational circles.

In other words, what matters more than the mere association of Obama with Ayers is the nature and purpose of that association. If Obama had developed his political philosophy based on Ayers' Weathermen days, or was advised on political matters by Ayers (and not in the context of uncontroversial educational stuff but on 60s radicalism) then we'd have a problem.

Right now it's all several degrees of separation. Screaming his name isn't likely to sway anybody.

By: JSpencer

JSpencer — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 01:22:44 +0000

“why not?_Really_?”

Maybe for the same reason many of your own comments aren't addressed, which is to say, not everything deserves to be dignified by a response.

By: DLS

DLS — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:04:12 +0000

Obama simply needs to disavor Ayers the way he rushed to disavow Wright.

How difficult is that?

If he won't do it, why not? _Really_?

By: donthelibertariandemocrat

donthelibertariandemocrat — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:48:59 +0000

About the Ayers, I thought that it was a simple case of the logical fallacy called “poisoning the well”.

By: Maggie22

Maggie22 — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:25:20 +0000

This is just a fantastic post — excellent description of how this sort of thinking works. And it's a nice touch to show how it functions on both sides. I hope this piece gets circulated widely.

Thanks!

By: LindaKay

LindaKay — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:22:13 +0000

Ayers contributed a total of $200 to Obama when he was running for the state Senate in Illinois. Ayers never made any other donations to Obama

How about McCain's relationship with G. Gordon Liddy a radio host and convicted Watergate burglar?

Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008.

McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May.

Listen to McCain on Liddy's show on 11/10/07 http://tinyurl.com/4k8f28

Check out Liddy's many radio programs that strongly support McCain

http://www.radioamerica.org/POD_ggl.htm

in November McCain praised Liddy for his adherence “to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great,” Chapman reports.

http://tinyurl.com/3nyx6o