Advice to Biden: Don’t Push, Let Palin Bluff

McCain and Obama were pretty gentle toward each other during their "Round One" cautious mutual probing (for weakness) session. The VP debate is being hyped too much on the airwaves, and some of you here on this site are guilty of excess as well. Let's just wait and see how they do. Everyone is anticipating (and many, such as the media, and Shaun Mullen, are hoping without any serious effort to conceal this) that Palin will self-destruct. Meanwhile, Dean-o (Joe Biden, with a faster grin at any and every camera than Bill "Quick-Draw" Clinton ever has had) has made many a smarter Democrat (IQ above room temperature, that is) concerned that he'll make one or more gaffes during the debate, which the media cannot quietly decline to broadcast. Dean-o and his gaffe potential really is the joker in the deck Thursday night. (I suspect part of the "homework" debate prep he is wisely doing includes one or more "stress test" shakedowns to make sure he doesn't say anything really stupid.) We should just wait and see how things go. Much of McCain's campaign is riding on Palin's performance, as we all know (and have been ... reminded ...).

DLS,

For the record, I pointed out potential hazards for both candidates.
T.

You are right about the minefield Biden is about to enter. But can I just say outloud that it is completely and utterly ridiculous, not to mention extraordinarily sexist, to believe that Biden has to pull his punches in order to avoid being seen as a mean nasty sexist guy. Palin's candidacy is a huge setback for women. It is the absolute worst of affirmative action: the nomination of someone who is clearly unqualified and a demand that her lack of qualification be downplayed because she's a woman. That we are playing by these rules without murmur reveals how far we are from taking women seriously.

And that doesn't even get to the risk all of this poses to the nation -- since no rational person can imagine that Palin is ready to step in as president should the need arise.

I am, quite simply, astonished that the public square continues to give McCain's candidacy standing. Sorry for ranting. But this whole episode makes a mockery of our polity. And since we are taking it seriously we deserve to be mocked.

right on Maggie! I'm with you. First, we're supposed to think of her as a 'pitbull with lipstick' and 'barracuda' and then the little lady to whom the media should show 'deference' and not be big bad bullies and ask her difficult questions. How pathetic.

That just underscores the impression, true in my opinion, that she is not ready for the big leagues.

hear, hear Maggie! This constant double-standard "coddling" of Palin is getting really tiresome. If she cannot speak to the issues & answer questions that the public wants to hear, she needs to step down.

Another bit of advice I would given Biden would be that he should focus their debate on who is ready to lead (naturally), but in that who is ready to lead in these troubled times. I think a frank discussion of the role of VP, and stark, revealing discussions about the projected longevity of the two presidential candidates is called for. I think Biden should frankly discuss death, dying and how McCain's fourtime bouts with the most aggressive of malignant cancers, coupled with the stress of this next administration puts him at huge risk of dying or becoming unable to lead while in office.

Biden is famous for shooting between the eyes. Don't tell him to curb that; use it. If he uses this opportunity to paint out McCain's potential mortality while in office he will gain more ground than facing off with Palin and, God forbid, come on her too aggressively and make himself look mean. Let's face it, with Caribou Barbie, that wouldn't be too hard to do. But then again if he made her cry, people would wonder what Putin could make her do? *shudder*

If Biden accentuates that of the two of them, Palin is the one most likely to wind up in the Oval Office by happenstance, that alone will win the debate for him and the vote for he and Obama this Fall. Then he can go on to reassure voters that in the less likely event he winds up there, of the two, he is clearly the more qualified to lead in this decade of the 21st Century.

Recently we've all gotten a fairly good look at the difficulties of the subtleties of the President trying to negotiate with Congress to get much needed change accomplished. Biden has been in Congress for many years and upon taking office he instantly would know how to approach the different personalities and how to appeal to their idiosyncracies without thinking almost. No matter what, with Palin we will be subjected to this same "waiting period" while we wonder how quickly it will take for her to assess the situation. Will she continue to be sequestered, unavailible at the crucial moment so she can get her act together?

Just some ideas...

Her perky dismissals of dire issues are disturbing. She waves aside important questions with the sweep of her hand as if people were silly for asking her. She really is Bush in a skirt...lol..

I agree that it is sexist to treat Palin like a hothouse flower- if she wants to play in the bigtime she needs to show us that she's tough.

But I agree also with Tony that Biden should give short crisp answers, and let Palin talk for long periods of time. Empty space will make her nervous and she'll try to fill the vacuum with ideological mush.

Obama's candidacy is a huge setback for blacks. It is the absolute worst of affirmative action: the nomination of someone who is clearly unqualified and a demand that his lack of qualification be downplayed because he's an african american. That we are playing by these rules without murmur reveals how far we are from taking blacks seriously.

Palin was elected. How does 'affirmative aciton' work in that instance?

"Palin was elected"

Uh, so was Obama--and------

the voters did NOT choose Palin as the GOP VP nominee, McCain's political hacks did- and not on her qualifications. The only "qualifications" that mattered to them was gender and ideology as they were going after women and conservatives-- two demographic groups that McCain was not polling well with.

DLS- Biden does make gaffes--- but he towers over Palin in both experience and knowledge. At the very least, I have never seen the Delaware senator speak the kind of mindless gibberish that Palin did in her interview with Couric. Tina Fey did a dead-on impression of her, but the saddest part was that it really wasn't THAT much of a caricature.

All that Biden needs to do is relax and let Palin be Palin.

two demographic groups that McCain was not polling well with.

He should have picked a black person then, because he is polling very poorly among blacks. Turning the telescope around, one could argue that Mr. Obama chose Mr. Biden because he was polling poorly with older white voters, hmmmm....... So, did Obama's political hacks pick Plugs because they wanted to shore up Mr. Obama's support among older white voters who value experience over rhetoric? You know, because the voters did not choose Mr. Biden as their nominee and given the choice would probably have selected Mrs. Clinton as their VP candidate.

PWT-

He wasn't going to get the black vote. He could have picked MLK himself, and blacks would still pick Obama.

Obama picked Biden to help counteract the experience criticism and to help with blue collar white voters. But at least there was something to Biden besides the demographics! I would faint if something happened to Pres McCain, but would be fairly confident that Biden could take over if something happened to Obama. How is it putting "country first" to pick someone obviously as unfamiliar with national issues or politics as Palin? She is a fish out of water.

For the most part I agree with Tony, except on one point others have already mentioned. I think Biden would do himself a big disservice if he allowed himself to ramble to the point of sucking all the oxygen out of the room. He needs to be succinct but substantive. But though I agree he should avoid trying to attack Palin on an identity politics basis (including trying to play the "I'm so much more informed than you" card, which McCain repeatedly tried to play against Obama to his detriment), I think he should go after her on the issues. Obviously they have significant ideological differences which need to be stressed. But beyond that, I think when the opportunity arises he should not shy away from pointing out Palin's on-record absurdities. Despite being a veritable gaffe machine, Biden's also very good at delivering withering one-liners. And if the opportunity presents itself to say something like, "there's more to foreign policy than owning a pair of binoculars", he should let it fly. Just don't overdo it. There are ways of saying "you're a lightweight" without actually saying it, if you know what I mean. The Cheney/Edwards debate is a good example. Biden would do well to study that episode carefully.

Anyway, it seems to me that in a VP debate one shouldn't attempt to score a knock-out punch. Rather, it is far more important to avoid major gaffes. I think it was David Brooks who said Palin's primary task is to try to rise to mediocrity. I think that's true. If she succeeds in that she can legitimize her place on the ticket, at least for the moment. If she does more than that all she will succeed in doing is shift the focus to the top of the ticket. If she does less than that then she will have a very long row to hoe. Likewise, Biden's primary task is to avoid being perceived as overbearing. If he succeeds in that then the focus shifts to the top of the ticket. If he fails, then he also will have a very long row to hoe.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

kritt11

Obama is not going to get the blue collar white voters either.

I think that the whole experience argument is a load of crap anyway. Neither candidate looks up to the job at this point, neither has ever had a real job, or any executive experience. Tocqueville was correct that we would end up elevating only the most mediocre people to government roles with our democratic republic. Both candidates being career politicians, I wish either had picked a VP with some real work experience, and success in that experience - imagine if Obama had picked Corzine as his VP, it would be over.

PWT -- You're obviously being obtuse and ridiculous on purpose, but I'm going to pretend I don't know that. Maggie is right on in her assessment, and it doesn't apply to any degree to Obama. It's insulting to women that Palin should be chosen merely for her gender (there are PLENTY of other Bible-thumpers McCain could have tapped), and then wrapped up in some sort of kiddy-proof bubble packaging. If she can hack it -- let her show us! (Many of us would be rooting her on!) If she can't, let her crash and burn. It doesn't apply to Obama in any way because he has NOT been treated with kid gloves, nobody is protecting him from the big bad meanies because he's black (like they are with Palin because she's a woman), he's being asked all the same hard questions every candidate should be asked, and he has proven through his ability to get votes and speak with the media and the public every day that he is ready to at least be a candidate in this race. Anyway, you know all that, and you're not arguing in good faith anyway, so I don't know why I bother.

As per the post itself, and particularly DLS's initial comment -- I personally would be tickled pink to see both a hilarious gaffe from Biden and a crash-n-burn self-destruction from Palin. However, it would be almost as much fun (and way more surprising) if both candidates do a fantastic job, make awesome points about the major issues, and leave the country feeling like we have two viable choices for VP. Well, a girl can dream, can't she?

PWT- Obama doesn't need all of the blue collar vote just someof it. And Biden is popular in Pennsylvania and Ohio which will help him.

How well do you think McCain would do with vets and blue collar workers if they knew more about his voting record? McCain gets a D with 2 veterans assoc, and we recently found out he owns 13 cars and an unknown number of houses. He 's no friend of unions either. A real man of the people right?

This debate is just going to be entertaining. Palin seems to go through every day trying way too hard to sound like she knows what she's talking about. And Biden doesn't try hard enough to keep quiet. Speaking of Biden, did anyone hear his reaction to the failed bailout?

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/29/politic...

Oh never mind...he just misheard the question. This debate is going to border on being a circus. Let 'em both loose and see who makes the biggest fool of themselves.

Any proof that Mr. McCain picked Palin solely because of her gender, of course not but I'll pretend that I don't know that. As to whether or not she can 'hack it', we'll find out on Thursday. As I've posted before, I believe that the McCain campaign is sandbagging in regard to Palin. I expect that the she will more than exceed the lowered expectations for her and that she will make Mr. Biden the fool. That is just my opinion.

As to Mr. Obama, the notion that he hasn't been treated with kid gloves is laughable. When he has been asked pointedly about his associations with: William Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, The Reverend Wright, Frank Marshall Davis, Tony Rezko - then the gloves will be off. Perhaps he's been grilled about his associations with these people by the NY Times or the Washington Post and I've just missed the story. Without seeeing any such reporting, I'd have to deduce that Mr. Obama is being treated with kid gloves.

I don't believe that he is being treated with kid gloves because he is black but because he is the democrat.

Now you're making me laugh! Try the interwebs if you missed the articles on Obama's connections with any of those people. The fact that you put "The Reverend Wright" on that list of people Obama's never been asked about just confirms that you're not in good faith here. Really? The MSM never questioned that association? That same MSM that owns those news stations on TV where they had the 24-hour-a-day Rev. Wright coverage for, like, 3 weeks a while back? Nothing but "God Damn America!" for weeks, and then Obama gives the first honest speech about race we've ever heard from any presidential candidate? Without seeing such reporting, I'd have to deduce that you are blind, except that most of the blind people I know are well aware of the news cycle.

"I don't believe that he is being treated with kid gloves because he is black but because he is the democrat.".

That's in no way what you meant in your "clever" little spoof of Maggie's post, now was it? Remember that? "the nomination of someone who is clearly unqualified and a demand that his lack of qualification be downplayed because he's an african american. " Kind of in opposition to the above statement, isn't it?

PWT-- Were the Clintons treated with kid gloves because they were Democrats??? What about Al Gore? The media light shines harshly on everyone-- which is why Gov Palin is kept in hiding.

And no one said Palin was chosen only because of her gender-- it helps that she's a conservative and that she hunts caribou. The base loves it!

To: PWT We don't take you seriously either.

"There are ways of saying "you're a lightweight" without actually saying it, if you know what I mean."

Right Rico, but anyone who hasn't figured out she is a lightweight by now isn't going to get any more traction from watching the debate. I think most of her supporters realize she is a lightweight but are willing to set that aside in order to remain in step with party or ideology. Then too there are lots of folks who make their decisions based on whether or not the candidate is someone they think they would like to hang out with, which, needless to say, isn't a terribly rigorous criteria for choosing the POTUS.

I love seeing Republicans defending her by telling the public that she's a victim of gotcha liberal journalism. Katie Couric, who herself has been called a lightweight, treated Palin with great empathy and patience.

The other talking point is that she's not a member of the elite- she's one of us. Well, I wouldn't vote for someone who knows less than I do about world affairs or economics. We're in too precipitious a position to have "one of us" running the country.