<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Is US Foreign Policy Too Moral?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/</link>
	<description>An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:50:06 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Alisa</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154482</link>
		<dc:creator>Alisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154482</guid>
		<description>The German high command proposed to Wilson an armistice based on the fourteen points. The British and French hesitated, but when Wilson threatened a separate peace, they agreed. Many of the European countries wanted the Versailles treaty rather than a free trade alliance that Wilson had outlined as the primary for his 14 points. WWI for a necessary for economics and trade since Germany had threatened to cut off the trade routes we used to move our trade. The US realization that we went to war for money didn&#039;t sit well, especially with Britian and France since the war had demolished much of their territory and did not affect the USA land.  We used the same principals in going to war in Iraq. In the end, it was all about economics and trade, this time it was a matter of oil. Since other nations would benefit from lower prices and would gain access to billions of gallons at discounted prices, the war became &quot;necessary&quot; and sold as a country with WMD and hatred toward America. Had we focused on OUR part we would have never ventured into Iraq or Kuwait. Let&#039;s not forget that Reagan and George H. Bush opened the door of America in the Middle East and George W. Bush completed the task. Since Reagan and the first Gulf war we have been in the Middle East for a single purpose....access to the Gulf oil. That my friends is not morally right, but is morally wrong to invade a country to take what is not plentiful in one&#039;s own country.   &lt;br&gt;Sa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The German high command proposed to Wilson an armistice based on the fourteen points. The British and French hesitated, but when Wilson threatened a separate peace, they agreed. Many of the European countries wanted the Versailles treaty rather than a free trade alliance that Wilson had outlined as the primary for his 14 points. WWI for a necessary for economics and trade since Germany had threatened to cut off the trade routes we used to move our trade. The US realization that we went to war for money didn&#39;t sit well, especially with Britian and France since the war had demolished much of their territory and did not affect the USA land.  We used the same principals in going to war in Iraq. In the end, it was all about economics and trade, this time it was a matter of oil. Since other nations would benefit from lower prices and would gain access to billions of gallons at discounted prices, the war became &#8220;necessary&#8221; and sold as a country with WMD and hatred toward America. Had we focused on OUR part we would have never ventured into Iraq or Kuwait. Let&#39;s not forget that Reagan and George H. Bush opened the door of America in the Middle East and George W. Bush completed the task. Since Reagan and the first Gulf war we have been in the Middle East for a single purpose&#8230;.access to the Gulf oil. That my friends is not morally right, but is morally wrong to invade a country to take what is not plentiful in one&#39;s own country.   <br />Sa</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154125</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154125</guid>
		<description>good comment-Lynx- and much more accurate than the original post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good comment-Lynx- and much more accurate than the original post!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polimom</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154124</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154124</guid>
		<description>Lynx -- actually, the &quot;spreading democracy will enhance our security&quot; philosophy was always the point of the exercise in Iraq.  It was the &quot;we&#039;re looking for mushroom clouds&quot; that was the excuse that was fed to a fearful public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynx &#8212; actually, the &#8220;spreading democracy will enhance our security&#8221; philosophy was always the point of the exercise in Iraq.  It was the &#8220;we&#39;re looking for mushroom clouds&#8221; that was the excuse that was fed to a fearful public.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154120</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154120</guid>
		<description>Your analysis makes a rather glaring omission, one that is very relevant to your argument. We didn&#039;t actually go into Iraq to spread democracy, to liberate the people of Iraq from Saddam and certainly not to stabilize the region. We went in because we as a nation were told that there where &quot;mushroom clouds&quot; looming. That Saddam could soon have the ability to strike within the US with WMDs and had the intention of doing so, that he had a working relationship with Al Qiaida. In short, we were lied to over and over again.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The whole &quot;spreading freedom&quot; reason came in after it was 100% clear that there were not and had not been any WMDs. It was in fact merely an excuse to save face. Perhaps some Americans may have convinced themselves that those were our initial intentions, but I doubt you could tell it to any foreigner without provoking uncontrollable laughter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In WWII many allies knew what Hitler was doing to Jews, Gays, gypsies etc. long before they started the war on them. The US declined to get involved at all until being attacked. But now we look back and would swear that everyone involved went on a virtuous crusade to save the Jews, instead of waiting to attack until Hitler became a threat to us personally.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mind you, this is not unique to any one country, not by a long shot. Spain laughably liked to pretend that it was only colonizing the Americas to spread Christianity, rather than to, say, pillage natural resources. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Countries usually will only go to war when they stand to gain or at least when the consequences of not doing so are worse. In a sense this is as it should be, since war should not be declared lightly and a country has a responsibility to it&#039;s armed forces and regular citizens to not put them at risk for no reason.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, there are exceptions. Intervention in Africa would be a notable one. It&#039;s also true that most western countries have become much better about wars generally. It&#039;s no longer considered acceptable to go to war, kill as many people as you possibly can, and then leave the country burning. As badly done as it has been, it&#039;s commendable that the US at least tries to rebuild some of what it knocked down in Iraq. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Certainly I see the upside of overthrowing an evil dictator, but I simply don&#039;t see that this was the primary motivation for Iraq. We could land in Burma tomorrow and hand the people back their country in 2 months (assuming we weren&#039;t already on two fronts). These are a people who are hungering for Democracy, have cried out for help and are under the heel of vicious dictators. That would be a true crusade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your analysis makes a rather glaring omission, one that is very relevant to your argument. We didn&#39;t actually go into Iraq to spread democracy, to liberate the people of Iraq from Saddam and certainly not to stabilize the region. We went in because we as a nation were told that there where &#8220;mushroom clouds&#8221; looming. That Saddam could soon have the ability to strike within the US with WMDs and had the intention of doing so, that he had a working relationship with Al Qiaida. In short, we were lied to over and over again.</p>
<p>The whole &#8220;spreading freedom&#8221; reason came in after it was 100% clear that there were not and had not been any WMDs. It was in fact merely an excuse to save face. Perhaps some Americans may have convinced themselves that those were our initial intentions, but I doubt you could tell it to any foreigner without provoking uncontrollable laughter.</p>
<p>In WWII many allies knew what Hitler was doing to Jews, Gays, gypsies etc. long before they started the war on them. The US declined to get involved at all until being attacked. But now we look back and would swear that everyone involved went on a virtuous crusade to save the Jews, instead of waiting to attack until Hitler became a threat to us personally.</p>
<p>Mind you, this is not unique to any one country, not by a long shot. Spain laughably liked to pretend that it was only colonizing the Americas to spread Christianity, rather than to, say, pillage natural resources. </p>
<p>Countries usually will only go to war when they stand to gain or at least when the consequences of not doing so are worse. In a sense this is as it should be, since war should not be declared lightly and a country has a responsibility to it&#39;s armed forces and regular citizens to not put them at risk for no reason.</p>
<p>Of course, there are exceptions. Intervention in Africa would be a notable one. It&#39;s also true that most western countries have become much better about wars generally. It&#39;s no longer considered acceptable to go to war, kill as many people as you possibly can, and then leave the country burning. As badly done as it has been, it&#39;s commendable that the US at least tries to rebuild some of what it knocked down in Iraq. </p>
<p>Certainly I see the upside of overthrowing an evil dictator, but I simply don&#39;t see that this was the primary motivation for Iraq. We could land in Burma tomorrow and hand the people back their country in 2 months (assuming we weren&#39;t already on two fronts). These are a people who are hungering for Democracy, have cried out for help and are under the heel of vicious dictators. That would be a true crusade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154048</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154048</guid>
		<description>The policy was planned before 9/11--- and had nothing to do with morality.  Freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam was the spoonful of sugar the Bush administration fed the American public to help the medicine go down. It helped to sell the war, but was never our main goal. If it had been we would have realized that Middle eastern culture is antithetical to our Western liberal freedoms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The policy was planned before 9/11&#8212; and had nothing to do with morality.  Freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam was the spoonful of sugar the Bush administration fed the American public to help the medicine go down. It helped to sell the war, but was never our main goal. If it had been we would have realized that Middle eastern culture is antithetical to our Western liberal freedoms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154028</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154028</guid>
		<description>Were we too high-minded to the point of being unrealistic?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, in the case of the neo-cons (who disappeared after 2006).  They in their own way were as unrealistic as well as high- and good-minded as Jimmy Carter was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were we too high-minded to the point of being unrealistic?</p>
<p>Yes, in the case of the neo-cons (who disappeared after 2006).  They in their own way were as unrealistic as well as high- and good-minded as Jimmy Carter was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154027</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154027</guid>
		<description>What would have been best for us, and moral at the same time, would have been to take the 1 trillion plus that we have spent and will spend on this war (and on longterm costs like veteran care) and use it to develop alternative energy strategies. We would have avoided the loss of life (both US and Iraqi) removed the Iraq War as a recruiting tool for al Queda, served as a world leader in environmental policy, created jobs and whole new industries, and given our oil-based economy and the middle-class a badly needed boost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would have been best for us, and moral at the same time, would have been to take the 1 trillion plus that we have spent and will spend on this war (and on longterm costs like veteran care) and use it to develop alternative energy strategies. We would have avoided the loss of life (both US and Iraqi) removed the Iraq War as a recruiting tool for al Queda, served as a world leader in environmental policy, created jobs and whole new industries, and given our oil-based economy and the middle-class a badly needed boost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polimom</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-154003</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-154003</guid>
		<description>Pat --  I see why you would say this, but I think the similarities are superficial.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When the current administration took office in Jan 2000, they already had a foreign policy model that was built around the ideology of &quot;spread democracy for the good of the US&quot;.    It wasn&#039;t developed as a slogan in hindsight for rallying the populace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat &#8212;  I see why you would say this, but I think the similarities are superficial.</p>
<p>When the current administration took office in Jan 2000, they already had a foreign policy model that was built around the ideology of &#8220;spread democracy for the good of the US&#8221;.    It wasn&#39;t developed as a slogan in hindsight for rallying the populace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Quijote</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/comment-page-1/#comment-153999</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Quijote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/war/iraq/iraq-war/22894/is-us-foreign-policy-too-moral/#comment-153999</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He was a destabilizing presence in the region and might well have continued to threaten Israel.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re kidding? right?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If there is a destabilizing country in the Middle East, it is Israel. It has been one of the primary cause of Middle Eastern Wars for the last fifty years, and the primary driver of Terrorism.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as morality goes, I am sure that our support of Saudi Arabia ( A remnant of the Middle Ages) is not driven by our sense of morality, but by our love of OIL, our overthrowing the Mossadeq Government is not driven by our sense of morality, but by our love of MONEY.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Morality is the bullshit we use to sell pointless wars, coups and the raping and pillaging of defenseless countries to the gullible suckers who get to vote every four years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He was a destabilizing presence in the region and might well have continued to threaten Israel.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#39;re kidding? right?</p>
<p>If there is a destabilizing country in the Middle East, it is Israel. It has been one of the primary cause of Middle Eastern Wars for the last fifty years, and the primary driver of Terrorism.</p>
<p>As far as morality goes, I am sure that our support of Saudi Arabia ( A remnant of the Middle Ages) is not driven by our sense of morality, but by our love of OIL, our overthrowing the Mossadeq Government is not driven by our sense of morality, but by our love of MONEY.</p>
<p>Morality is the bullshit we use to sell pointless wars, coups and the raping and pillaging of defenseless countries to the gullible suckers who get to vote every four years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
