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	<title>Comments on: The 2008 Economic Crisis: The Cause (Guest Voice Part I)</title>
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		<title>By: The Fed End Game &#171; Financial Pictures</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-176932</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fed End Game &#171; Financial Pictures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-176932</guid>
		<description>[...] a small chance that it’ll work as intended, for the reasons I detailed in my series in the fall (here, here, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a small chance that it’ll work as intended, for the reasons I detailed in my series in the fall (here, here, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RememberNovember</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153879</link>
		<dc:creator>RememberNovember</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We have yet to feel the aftershocks.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have yet to feel the aftershocks&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153874</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153874</guid>
		<description>Great article, Mikkel. I will need to take more time to digest it all and check out all of the linked sources.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Meanwhile, I thought I&#039;d share this humorous (and I think largely accurate) primer on the subprime mess (language warning):&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/the-full-explan.html&quot;&gt;http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/t...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Mikkel. I will need to take more time to digest it all and check out all of the linked sources.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I thought I&#39;d share this humorous (and I think largely accurate) primer on the subprime mess (language warning):<br /><a href="http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/the-full-explan.html"></a><a href="http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/t.." rel="nofollow">http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/09/t..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153849</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153849</guid>
		<description>This &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/bernanke-tells-congress-economy-will.html&quot;&gt;link talks&lt;/a&gt; about how we got to be much worse than some other very bad crises, why we haven&#039;t felt the effects yet even though we should have, and shows an update to the graph that I show above that looks like it includes government debt as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This <a href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/bernanke-tells-congress-economy-will.html">link talks</a> about how we got to be much worse than some other very bad crises, why we haven&#39;t felt the effects yet even though we should have, and shows an update to the graph that I show above that looks like it includes government debt as well.</p>
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		<title>By: RyanS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153833</link>
		<dc:creator>RyanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153833</guid>
		<description>I would agree with you Sil except  its hardly just health care thats the source of the problem its also energy/gas food everything is shooting up. While peoples ability to earn is declining, due in no small part to outsourcing, but also huge inflation.  Which due to Bush&#039;s creative accounting is almost all not accounted for in our current measures.  I think I read somewhere that using pre-bush ( Bush changed the standards to ignore the costs of energy, and basics such as food) measures our inflation for each of the last 3 years should be around 5% instead of 3-4%. Thank you Clinton and your hedonic adjustments.... &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wish I could remember where I heard this ( a history channel special I think), but supposedly the average lifetime of a currency, without revaluation, is around 70 years.  The last revaluation of the dollar was after the depression, and before that the civil war. Well, its becoming overdue for revaluation. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The truth of the matter is unless we quite radically change that way we regulate things are most likely going to continue to swirl the toilet for a few years or more.  I can&#039;t help but laugh at it when I hear some clueless analyst claim that the recession will end next  year.... WhY what is going to be different then than now. Are companies going to suddenly become less leveraged (the bailout I know). Will the cost of energy plummet ... no.  Will CEO&#039;s stop getting hundred million dollar bonuses...no.  Even if Obama wins and is able to immediately enact sweeping reforms will they be able to go into effect in one years time.... no. So sit tight and have a backup plan its going to get bumpy, and maybe even a little violent.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I also heard recently that the various entities are considering reducing  our countries credit rating from triple A to something else, but even if its just goes down one slot can you imagine the inflation that will cause.... not to mention it will make it that much harder for the Gov to bailout all the back debt.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wish we where in a place where we could afford to bailout the financial, but the interest payments on the national debt already make up about 25-30% of the total budget for 2008.  can you imagine what adding another 10% would do for that. This bailout will only make the final economic belly flop even worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with you Sil except  its hardly just health care thats the source of the problem its also energy/gas food everything is shooting up. While peoples ability to earn is declining, due in no small part to outsourcing, but also huge inflation.  Which due to Bush&#39;s creative accounting is almost all not accounted for in our current measures.  I think I read somewhere that using pre-bush ( Bush changed the standards to ignore the costs of energy, and basics such as food) measures our inflation for each of the last 3 years should be around 5% instead of 3-4%. Thank you Clinton and your hedonic adjustments&#8230;. </p>
<p>I wish I could remember where I heard this ( a history channel special I think), but supposedly the average lifetime of a currency, without revaluation, is around 70 years.  The last revaluation of the dollar was after the depression, and before that the civil war. Well, its becoming overdue for revaluation. </p>
<p>The truth of the matter is unless we quite radically change that way we regulate things are most likely going to continue to swirl the toilet for a few years or more.  I can&#39;t help but laugh at it when I hear some clueless analyst claim that the recession will end next  year&#8230;. WhY what is going to be different then than now. Are companies going to suddenly become less leveraged (the bailout I know). Will the cost of energy plummet &#8230; no.  Will CEO&#39;s stop getting hundred million dollar bonuses&#8230;no.  Even if Obama wins and is able to immediately enact sweeping reforms will they be able to go into effect in one years time&#8230;. no. So sit tight and have a backup plan its going to get bumpy, and maybe even a little violent.</p>
<p>I also heard recently that the various entities are considering reducing  our countries credit rating from triple A to something else, but even if its just goes down one slot can you imagine the inflation that will cause&#8230;. not to mention it will make it that much harder for the Gov to bailout all the back debt.</p>
<p>I wish we where in a place where we could afford to bailout the financial, but the interest payments on the national debt already make up about 25-30% of the total budget for 2008.  can you imagine what adding another 10% would do for that. This bailout will only make the final economic belly flop even worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153813</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153813</guid>
		<description>Debt piles up when incomes stop.  Income stops when jobs are outsourced.  Jobs are outsourced because employers find it harder and harder to compete on the world market due to high insurance premiums for their american workers.  Those premiums surround nothing but health care issues.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The root of the problem looks like the lack of universal health care.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I proposed an idea of reducing the minimum wage, legislating jobs back home from overseas and enacting universal health care fund paid in a super-low monthly premium per person.  Like $15 each.  $5 co-pay at the pharmacy for all prescriptions to more than cover their cost of manufacture.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The pharmaceutical lobbiests will soil their shorts at the mention of it.  The GOP will scream &quot;Socialism!!&quot;.  But who cares what those elite and outdated groups think anymore anyway?  We have a nation in crises due directly to their short-sided excesses and old-fogey paranoia of the slightest hint of anything sounding remotely like it is a pool to benefit the masses.  Yet they drive on roads funded by a common pool, enjoy police and military protection from socialized arms and send their kids to schools that are publicly funded...oh wait..they can afford private schools.. Scratch that last one..&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We should build this country back the only way we can, from the bottom up.  You don&#039;t rebuild a wrecked house from the roof downward; when you&#039;re done it will have settled, be unsquare and lilting..unfit for habitation.  No, you start at the foundation and work up.  That&#039;s what you do when a house is wrecked.  The foundation of the economy is the working stiff.  We start there or kiss the USA goodbye. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Put working men and women back in their homes, give them health care so they won&#039;t have to worry and get sicker worrying.  Relieve their employers by removing the unbearable burden of health and accident insurance so more people can be hired.  Once with more jobs, more mortgages can be afforded, more homes will be bought back up.  Real estate prices will stabilize and begin to creep upwards again.  Banks will regain their financial solidity.  Loans will flow more freely.  The economy will be newly stimulated.  Mandate clean and safe alternative energy to stave the outflow of American cash to the foreigners.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do all this and Wallstreet will have its bailout.  Oh sure, it will take some time for them to see the caviar back on the platinum dinnerware, but that&#039;s a burden I think we&#039;re all prepared to shoulder...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;lol...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debt piles up when incomes stop.  Income stops when jobs are outsourced.  Jobs are outsourced because employers find it harder and harder to compete on the world market due to high insurance premiums for their american workers.  Those premiums surround nothing but health care issues.  </p>
<p>The root of the problem looks like the lack of universal health care.</p>
<p>I proposed an idea of reducing the minimum wage, legislating jobs back home from overseas and enacting universal health care fund paid in a super-low monthly premium per person.  Like $15 each.  $5 co-pay at the pharmacy for all prescriptions to more than cover their cost of manufacture.</p>
<p>The pharmaceutical lobbiests will soil their shorts at the mention of it.  The GOP will scream &#8220;Socialism!!&#8221;.  But who cares what those elite and outdated groups think anymore anyway?  We have a nation in crises due directly to their short-sided excesses and old-fogey paranoia of the slightest hint of anything sounding remotely like it is a pool to benefit the masses.  Yet they drive on roads funded by a common pool, enjoy police and military protection from socialized arms and send their kids to schools that are publicly funded&#8230;oh wait..they can afford private schools.. Scratch that last one..</p>
<p>We should build this country back the only way we can, from the bottom up.  You don&#39;t rebuild a wrecked house from the roof downward; when you&#39;re done it will have settled, be unsquare and lilting..unfit for habitation.  No, you start at the foundation and work up.  That&#39;s what you do when a house is wrecked.  The foundation of the economy is the working stiff.  We start there or kiss the USA goodbye. </p>
<p>Put working men and women back in their homes, give them health care so they won&#39;t have to worry and get sicker worrying.  Relieve their employers by removing the unbearable burden of health and accident insurance so more people can be hired.  Once with more jobs, more mortgages can be afforded, more homes will be bought back up.  Real estate prices will stabilize and begin to creep upwards again.  Banks will regain their financial solidity.  Loans will flow more freely.  The economy will be newly stimulated.  Mandate clean and safe alternative energy to stave the outflow of American cash to the foreigners.  </p>
<p>Do all this and Wallstreet will have its bailout.  Oh sure, it will take some time for them to see the caviar back on the platinum dinnerware, but that&#39;s a burden I think we&#39;re all prepared to shoulder&#8230;</p>
<p>lol&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153802</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153802</guid>
		<description>You should also mention that Congress once gain could not publish its budget on time and is looking at a five month Continuing Resolution to finance the government. &lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002957129&quot;&gt;http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=new...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It looks like Speaker Pelosi is no more competent to be Speaker of the House than former Speaker Hastert was. Of course, since &lt;a href=&quot;http://moveon.org&quot;&gt;moveon.org&lt;/a&gt; had not notified any of the usual left of center bloggers more has the huffington post mentioned it, I know that is will not be mentioned her at The Moderate Voice.  Worrying about Palin&#039;s ability to be a mayor is more fund than talking about the inability of Pelosi or Reid to run Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should also mention that Congress once gain could not publish its budget on time and is looking at a five month Continuing Resolution to finance the government. <br /><a href="http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002957129"></a><a href="http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=new.." rel="nofollow">http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=new..</a>.</p>
<p>It looks like Speaker Pelosi is no more competent to be Speaker of the House than former Speaker Hastert was. Of course, since <a href="http://moveon.org">moveon.org</a> had not notified any of the usual left of center bloggers more has the huffington post mentioned it, I know that is will not be mentioned her at The Moderate Voice.  Worrying about Palin&#39;s ability to be a mayor is more fund than talking about the inability of Pelosi or Reid to run Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: RememberNovember</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153793</link>
		<dc:creator>RememberNovember</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153793</guid>
		<description>Sure...just borrow from other counries that have a better cash flow rather than develop a sound economic plan and strive for a robust economy. Rob Peter to offer Paul Peter&#039;s debt as collateral.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How Hamiltonian. I guess the Post being owned by Murdoch is karmic payback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure&#8230;just borrow from other counries that have a better cash flow rather than develop a sound economic plan and strive for a robust economy. Rob Peter to offer Paul Peter&#39;s debt as collateral.</p>
<p>How Hamiltonian. I guess the Post being owned by Murdoch is karmic payback.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff_pickens</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-153790</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff_pickens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/guest-contributor/22876/the-2008-depression-the-cause-guest-voice-part-i/#comment-153790</guid>
		<description>It was much simpler for me to understand and believe Dick Cheney: &quot;Reagan proved that the deficit doesn&#039;t matter.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was much simpler for me to understand and believe Dick Cheney: &#8220;Reagan proved that the deficit doesn&#39;t matter.&#8221;</p>
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