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Save a Seat on that Fence for Me

Posted by PETE ABEL, Managing Editor in Politics.
Sep 10th, 2008 | Comments

Yesterday, I posted my case against Gov. Palin. A short while later — per several reader challenges — I retracted one of the points from that case, and then started to seriously question the other points.

In the end, though I’m still not a Palin fan, I suspect my rush to judgment may have blinded me to certain nuances about her record — nuances that I’d otherwise gladly investigate and consider, if it were another candidate, such as Sens. McCain and Obama, and to a lesser degree, Sen. Biden. Hell, I’ve given Sen. Clinton more rope than I’ve offered Gov. Palin.

It now appears that my “research” on Palin was really not research at all, but a seek-and-destroy mission, seizing anything that supported my pre-determined views. Shame on me. That’s not what a so-called moderate should do.

In turn, this self-critique led me to wonder (in installment #568 of Pete’s flip-flops) if I will ever be able to say, with confidence, for whom I’ll vote this November. And then I read Polimom’s confession — re: her trip back to the fence.

At the risk of generating the same extensive debate she did, I’d respectfully ask Polimom to save some room for me on that fence.

To be clear, I’m not filling my fence-seat just yet. I’m only making a reservation in advance.

I still think the predominant issue in this election is foreign policy, and I still think the Obama-Biden ticket holds the advantage on that issue. Biden has the experience. Obama has the right tone/approach (intelligent, contemplative, cautious) – i.e., the very tone/approach we sorely need and have sorely missed during the last eight years. Meanwhile, I keep pushing my concerns about Obama-Biden domestic policy to the background, believing that for all their big-government inclinations, they surely could not screw things up as badly as you-know-who’s administration.

Then again — given the conflicting voices in my head, the mountains of doubt from which those voices bounce and echo, and the expanding list of questions about what I really politically believe — I could easily be jumping on and off the fence another 568 times before November 4.

It’s painful to be me. It really is.

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ChrisWWW

Pete,
What do you think about the McCain campaign having admitted their campaign wont be focused on winning the issues debate, but instead focused on character?

jwest

Mission Accomplished

Rambie

Pete, be careful not to get any splinters from the fence. :)

No seriously I understand and feel about the same as you about who's going to have a better on our national debt. Then I read this:

"The fact of the matter is that DeLong did not take Obama's or McCain's fiscal plans as presented by the campaigns or estimated by Tax Policy Center to determine his estimates. DeLong made the following much simpler assumptions (possibly out of necessity) that essentially had little to do with the specific plans being offered by the two campaigns:

"McCain: Begin by assuming that John McCain's fiscal policy is likely to be standard Republican fiscal policy. Since 1981, standard Republican fiscal policy has been to increase the ratio of gross federal debt to GDP by nearly 2% per year.

"Obama: And suppose, last of all that the alternative to a McCain presidency-a Barack Obama presidency-will not be able to match the Democratic post-WWII average in fiscal-policy prudence but will instead simply hold the gross federal debt-to-GDP ratio constant.

The above is from: http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23531.html

It looks like a McCain Presidency would increase the national debt and a Obama would just hold the line. I'd like to see it go DOWN but out of the two, I'd rather hold it steady.

I also like how DeLong just looked at past performance of the party's instead of the campaign proposals. Why? Because we all know how campaign promises... err proposals don't always make it to policy.

DLS

A lot of people are on the fence (joining the swing voters) this year, Pete.

* McCain has been dull and unattractive (or uninspiring), the next Bob Dole.

* The public has been disenchanted with the Congressional GOP; that was shown in the 2006 election results.

* Putting Obama-Biden in office is a legitimate protest vote against McCain.

* Putting Obama-Biden in office is a method of punishing the GOP.

* Putting Obama-Biden in office (with those still-expected big Dem gains* in Congress) will put the Dems in charge, possibly to make the economy and our foreign situation worse than it is now. That can revitalize the GOP while giving it the next 2-4 years to stop being so dysfunctional and worse.

The foregoing is a case for even GOP-leaning voters to vote Democratic this year.

Currently the selection of Palin has changed this. Now the GOP ticket appeals to a large fraction of the electorate. (The Left is hysterical and outraged about this.) The GOP ticket easily can win on the issues, and they appeal in addition to the question of character (and other things than issues) with which now with the election of Palin, the GOP ticket can rival or exceed the feel-good factor that has been the core and almost all of the Obama campaign so far. Dispassionately, the Obama "strategic" vote by non-liberals (and of course, by more liberal Americans who sometimes may vote GOP -- liberal swing voters) remains fully viable and Obama remains strong.

Now, many on the Left of course won't go near McCain-Palin (or any other GOP ticket) and some even who are non-liberal may not yet join the current stampede. Recall that after Palin's choice, some of us were pleasantly surprised or intrigued, but a lot of people were not. They either wanted Lieberman or someone else. Many of them likely will vote GOP in the end, but there are some that may still vote the other way -- especially if they truly dislike McCain or have punishment in mind for the GOP.

* Palin's choice as VP may improve the chances of Congressional GOP candidates.

jchem

Pete,

I think more than anything it's a sign of intellectual honesty. For goodness sake, their haven't even been any debates yet. And for the people who are already decided, the debate performance won't matter--their candidate has already won. All we are currently getting is a pig soap opera, i.e. "He said this, well he said this!" And being two months out, ANYTHING can happen.

It's time for them both to get to specifics. How do they plan to do such things in their platform? Why do it? Who will it effect? etc. etc. Hearing a plan is great, but I want to know the how and why more than anything. Until that happens, you can save room on that fence for me.

Silhouette

Everyone I talk to says the same thing. Responses vary from apathy to fear about what will happen should either party take office.

Biden is my favorite of the four. If Obama turns out to be Biden's puppet, I could live with that better than any other of the conceivable scenarios.

However, today there will be a third-party candidate of some significance announced. In the past I could've cared less. But I find myself sitting on the edge of my chair in anticipation. At this point I'd almost vote for Paris Hilton over the blue or reds. Heck, her energy policy sounded more specific and sane than I've heard either party come up with so far..

Rambie

DLS, tell me where McCain-Palin is a "maverick" compared to Bush policy of the last 8-years.

That's my beef, McCain flip-floped on everything that made him a maverick compared to Bush and most of the far-right-GOP in general. Palin appears of have flip-floped on any issue when it because political convenient.

Palin IS "intriguing" but we (or at least I) don't know enough about her. What has come out seems like she's just another typical politician.

kritt11

I like Biden the best too. He has the most experience, and has the best grasp of foreign affairs of the four. There's no fear that he will become a stealth VP, and destroy his records or hold secret meetings with industry CEO's.

Whoever wins will have to grapple with a 500 billion dollar deficit, a present from our MBA president.

Amanda

I look at this election like that moment in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade when Indy is clinging to a ledge with no apparent path ahead and certain death if he turns back. While perhaps not as dramatic as a chamber full of swords and headless skeletons, the McCain camp is the devil we know. If we head in that direction, we all know exactly what we'll get - the same policies and obfuscations that have caused us so much trouble in the last eight years. But it's really scary to just step off that ledge and move forward, not knowing if there's really a path to progress. Obama is that big question mark. It's a leap of faith for a lot of people to support Obama because he is so different from what we're used to and it seems like a risky maneuver. I'd rather take that step into the unknown, looking towards all the possibilities, even if it is risky, rather than turn back to the horrors we've already witnessed. It might get us nowhere, but it could also lead to a real turnaround for the country. I know it sounds cheesy, but I'll taking hoping for the best over settling for the mediocre any day.

kritt11

It bothers me that the McCain camp has been able to change the discussion from his party's dismal record of achievement in office to a campaign of personalities. Especially since the personality that his advisors are projecting about his new running mate is a false one.

Polimom

Pete -- it's a big fence and there's plenty of room. If by some weird chance it gets full here, maybe we can take turns hopping on and off and keeping the spot warm?

More seriously -- yes, your reaction re: Palin looks a lot like what I went through. When the media storm started up, I saw far too many places where things were being either invented or distorted. Like you, it made me realize I needed to back up a fair distance and re-examine things across the board.

It's a good thing.

elrod

Take all the Palin-lovers and Palin-haters aside, what exactly is the appeal of Sarah Palin to the McCain ticket? That she's a woman? That she's new? That she has five kids, one with Down's Syndrome? That she hunts moose?

It strikes me that Palin's appeal is very superficial, akin to the latest celebrity. She gets people excited. And some people feel they might could relate to her on some level or another. And the McCain people are being careful at stoking that by continuing with rock star rallies.

But how long will that last? As McCain reminded us all summer long, we are not electing a Britney Spears. We are electing a serious President. Will Palin pass that test? I've seen no evidence of it one way or another yet. That she's even given the chance to go this long without facing the media OR the voters (in a town hall) is truly unprecedented.

So I ask again: what does Palin really bring to the ticket? Is the energy really sustainable, as it is for Obama? Or is it just a fad that will die of its own contradictions?

jwest

I keep thinking about another group of liberals who stepped off the ledge with a community organizer on the way to the Promised Land.

The original Kool-Aid party – hosted by Jim Jones.

They did have a socialist utopia for a little while.

ChrisWWW

I keep thinking about another group of liberals who stepped off the ledge with a community organizer on the way to the Promised Land.

Why don't you just tie liberals to Stalin, and I'll tie conservatives to Hitler, and we'll be done with it.

jwest

Actually, if you read Jonah Goldberg, you’ll find that Hitler was a product of the left.

http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com/

ChrisWWW

jwest,
Ah yes. The preeminent scholar Jonah Goldberg. I believe he argued that because Hitler was a vegetarian, and many lefties are vegetarians, that makes Hitler a lefty.

It's a compelling and logically sound argument.

jabbo

ChrisWWW said: "Why don't you just tie liberals to Stalin, and I'll tie conservatives to Hitler, and we'll be done with it."

THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!!

jabbo

Pete:

I feel your pain. I've found that there are many, many good single malt Scotches that work wonders with my pain - Talisker, Cragganmore, and even Glen Moray.

But please - deal with your pain responsibly.

Ricorun

Actually, if you read Jonah Goldberg, you’ll find that Hitler was a product of the left.

Actually, if you read Jonah Goldberg's book you'll find that American conservatism is also a product of his definition of "the left".

RememberNovember

better get your padded hockey pants then, you're gonna get bruises like a newbie snowboarder.

jwest- yet again focusing on spin ad hominem attacks on the left comparing them to extreme political factions.
- citing singular biased sources just makes you look more biased.

/sigh is it too much to hope the hypocrisy will end?
Class. Integrity.

Just words in a dictionary for you.
I actually thought better of you for a while, from your past posts that had some merit.
This puts you back a few more points, sad to say. I have been, of late checking myself when it comes to attributing these ultra-negatives to our political parties ( and giving full phrasing to those fringe groups that deserve it) because really, when you insult Dems, and Reps likewise in such a fashion you insult the centuries of progress both parties have given to this country.

Change has to happen in each of us, we have to take responsibility- this is NOT a government by Youtube, for Youtube and of Youtube.

If I have addressed any in such a slavering fashion I humbly apologise.

Maybe it's that tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the worst days in my life( and America's) that is making me feel so mellow, but I say "ENOUGH".

Let's have a truce from rancor for at least a day and a half, so that we may reflect upon what it is that makes this country what it is. Not pigs and lipstick, not truth squads, not who's Right and who's Left, but who's standing next to you.

We were all once "New Yorkers" on 9/11, remember?

RememberNovember

Pete:

I feel your pain. I've found that there are many, many good single malt Scotches that work wonders with my pain - Talisker, Cragganmore, and even Glen Moray.

But please - deal with your pain responsibly.

Dalwhinne and Tamintoul are my favorites. I once got to sample a Macallan 50 year Scotch....nothing else is tthe same after that.

jwest

RN,

You must be taking some of my comments too seriously.

We conservatives have been called Nazis so many times, we just laugh it off. So, when I come back with (what I consider) a humorous retort, don’t take it personally.

casualobserver

Amanda, sensing some anxiety on your part, I thought Democratic Party Psalm 23 may be of comfort to you........

The Barack is my shepherd I shall not want
He maketh me to lie down in ecologically balanced pastures: he leadeth me beside the waters of Evian and Starbucks coffee.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of politics for his name's sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley in the shadow of Republicans, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy coolness and thy celebrity they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of McCain/Palin thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely socialism and high taxes shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Obama for ever.

ChrisWWW

CO,
McCain's new campaign slogan:
See you at the Selective Service office!

RememberNovember

That's the funny thing sometimes , it doesn't always come off that way. Hard to gauge intent sometimes in a 2" word box.

tags help

/lol
/sarcasm
/irony
/satire

Ricorun

CO: I thought Democratic Party Psalm 23 may be of comfort to you........

And I thought you were above that. My bad. I won't make that mistake again.

DLS

Actually, Chris, that's Charlie "Oops, I Forgot to Pay All My Taxes" Rangel's idea, the draft for everyone.

Only fools believe the hysteria that McCain already plans war with Iran.

* * *

McCain has, in fact, defied many conservatives, including Bush before -- Gang of 14, McCain-Feingold, latching onto the more faddish global warming politics (which has been substituted in large part for the real science behind the phenomenon, not to mention public policy) and promoting alternative fuels more optimistically than is merited (Bush is solidly in the oil industry camp)... I could go on but don't need to.

Ricorun

DLS: ...latching onto the more faddish global warming politics (which has been substituted in large part for the real science behind the phenomenon, not to mention public policy)...

I presume you think it's a world-wide conspiracy? If so, it has incredibly deep roots. We're not talking just the IPCC here, we're talking the AAAS, NSA, NGS, and virtually all of the other leading scientific organizations around the world. So in the very unlikely event that this is a fad we might as well get on board anyway, because we're talking a multiple trillion dollar market here. This ain't no nickel and dime stuff like Nintendo. Even the existing market makes Microsoft look small. If we let this pass because all we want to do it drill, baby, drill, we're freakin' idiots.

Then again, we're getting well trained.

Ricorun

Only fools believe the hysteria that McCain already plans war with Iran.

Only fools would dismiss it out of hand, too. And it's not just about Iran. It's about dealing with Iran's allies. I'll leave you to do the math there. But in short, on the basis of what McCain has said, on the basis of who he has accumulated around him, on the basis of his apparent inclination to compartmentalize his approach to foreign policy, I don't have a whole lot of faith in his judgement. And that's weird, because I rather expected him to own that issue.

bupalos

"Meanwhile, I keep pushing my concerns about Obama-Biden domestic policy to the background, believing that for all their big-government inclinations, they surely could not screw things up as badly as you-know-who’s administration."

I think you are kind of setting up a false choice for yourself here. Is there any evidence that McCain (or any self-described "fiscal conservative") has any interest in "smaller government" other than the rhetorical one that allows them to get into office? Do you understand that war is basically the most expensive, "big government" thing that we do? Do you know that McCain's proposed budget contains a much higher deficit than Obama's?

I read your indecision as "on the one hand, I agree with Obama on the most important issues, on the other hand, he might be just as bad as McCain on the secondary issues." Hmmmm. But if you could elaborate on those domestic issues you mean, it would be easier to address specifically.

And on an editorial note, I think the most pressing issue of our time, that truly threatens our entire economy and way of life is energy. And the Republicans have demonstrated time and again, most recently at their convention, that as a party, they simply do not understand or care about this issue. "Drill baby drill" is the mantra that will lead us into the real great depression.

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