Comments on: Memo to David Gergen http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:05:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127499 kritt11 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:14:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127499 In her defense, its not like Palin planned on being asked to be the GOP's VP nominee. She was probably as shocked as anyone that her name was in contention. But, we had a president whose first term foreign policy was marred by jingoism, naivete, and a misunderstanding of the limits of American power in the world. Part of that at least was due to the fact that he never traveled. So it makes little sense to me that McCain would pick her. In her defense, its not like Palin planned on being asked to be the GOP's VP nominee. She was probably as shocked as anyone that her name was in contention. But, we had a president whose first term foreign policy was marred by jingoism, naivete, and a misunderstanding of the limits of American power in the world. Part of that at least was due to the fact that he never traveled. So it makes little sense to me that McCain would pick her.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127498 DLS Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:18:22 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127498 Don't forget that the media pundits, who are DC-and-related-centric, have been wrong before and will be wrong again, in addition to being annoying in that they value each other's time more than that of many speakers at the conventions. Even NPR, which should be better and isn't as bad as the networks, succumbed to this temptation. (PBS was less bad and I simply watched PBS rather than relying on the network and the commentators' self-centeredness and frequent out-of-touch remarks.)<br><br>I wonder to what extent criticism of Palin by the media, in addition to left-leanings (they support Obama), is already due to nervousness of a (non-liberal) outsider actually threatening to come to Washington. (Haven't they learned anything with the experiences of Bill Clinton, then Dubya? The establishment continues largely to have its way. Among other things, Biden is Obama's Great Facilitator.) Don't forget that the media pundits, who are DC-and-related-centric, have been wrong before and will be wrong again, in addition to being annoying in that they value each other's time more than that of many speakers at the conventions. Even NPR, which should be better and isn't as bad as the networks, succumbed to this temptation. (PBS was less bad and I simply watched PBS rather than relying on the network and the commentators' self-centeredness and frequent out-of-touch remarks.)

I wonder to what extent criticism of Palin by the media, in addition to left-leanings (they support Obama), is already due to nervousness of a (non-liberal) outsider actually threatening to come to Washington. (Haven't they learned anything with the experiences of Bill Clinton, then Dubya? The establishment continues largely to have its way. Among other things, Biden is Obama's Great Facilitator.)

]]> By: GeorgeSorwell http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127494 GeorgeSorwell Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:34:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127494 Gosh, my question was irrelevant!! <br><br>Mark is only talking about the plausibility of foreign travel. <br><br>All I can say in response is that this is a public thread. <br><br>Everyone can decide if I raised a valid question. <br><br>And everyone can decide if this was a good answer. Gosh, my question was irrelevant!!

Mark is only talking about the plausibility of foreign travel.

All I can say in response is that this is a public thread.

Everyone can decide if I raised a valid question.

And everyone can decide if this was a good answer.

]]> By: MJDaniels53 http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127490 MJDaniels53 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:54:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127490 George:<br>Read the post again please. I sense that Palin's experience as a middle class person raising a family, raised in a middle class family, prevented her from traveling abroad and that, through my experience, that isn't implausible. If that's "identity politics," okay, I guess it is.<br><br>Yes, she hasn't had any foreign policy experience and that may be a legitimate reason for rejecting her as a candidate for Vice President. <br><br>You decide.<br><br>I don't do endorsements.<br><br>Mark George:
Read the post again please. I sense that Palin's experience as a middle class person raising a family, raised in a middle class family, prevented her from traveling abroad and that, through my experience, that isn't implausible. If that's “identity politics,” okay, I guess it is.

Yes, she hasn't had any foreign policy experience and that may be a legitimate reason for rejecting her as a candidate for Vice President.

You decide.

I don't do endorsements.

Mark

]]> By: GeorgeSorwell http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127489 GeorgeSorwell Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:49:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127489 I skimmed the comments before I posted that. Going back more carefully, I see Elrod has already raised the same question. I skimmed the comments before I posted that. Going back more carefully, I see Elrod has already raised the same question.

]]> By: GeorgeSorwell http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127485 GeorgeSorwell Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:45:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127485 In passing, you admit her resume is thin and her foreign policy experience is non-existent. <br><br>But what really bothers you is a comment by a pundit that she hasn't seen the world. <br><br>And it bothers you because you couldn't afford to do the same. <br><br>It's all about you being just like her. It's all about you resenting criticism of her because of it.<br><br>This is identity politics. <br><br>Why should that pundit's comment bother you more than what you readily concede is her lack of qualification? In passing, you admit her resume is thin and her foreign policy experience is non-existent.

But what really bothers you is a comment by a pundit that she hasn't seen the world.

And it bothers you because you couldn't afford to do the same.

It's all about you being just like her. It's all about you resenting criticism of her because of it.

This is identity politics.

Why should that pundit's comment bother you more than what you readily concede is her lack of qualification?

]]> By: Amanda http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127483 Amanda Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:05:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127483 With all due respect, I have to disagree, at least in part, with the premise that lack of funds is the primary reason for not travelling. I know from my own experiences in the last few years that it's possible to make a very inexpensive trip abroad if you really want to go. It's just a matter of priorities. I went to London for 10 days in 2004 with 5 of my friends and none of us spent more than $800 on airfare and accommodations. Last year we all went to Mexico and again spent less than $800/person on the basic expenses. None of us are wealthy. We have to save up all year to take these trips, but we take our time looking for the cheapest fares and best deals. A friend of mine who spent the first year after college as a bellhop for a fancy hotel in Philadelphia is now teaching English classes in Rome. He didn't have to get an advanced degree or anything - just apply for the program and pay for his plane ticket. I know another girl who's doing a similar program in Japan. If you don't mind staying in hostels, flying at odd times, and/or going during the off-peak season, just about any destination can be made reasonably affordable. With all due respect, I have to disagree, at least in part, with the premise that lack of funds is the primary reason for not travelling. I know from my own experiences in the last few years that it's possible to make a very inexpensive trip abroad if you really want to go. It's just a matter of priorities. I went to London for 10 days in 2004 with 5 of my friends and none of us spent more than $800 on airfare and accommodations. Last year we all went to Mexico and again spent less than $800/person on the basic expenses. None of us are wealthy. We have to save up all year to take these trips, but we take our time looking for the cheapest fares and best deals. A friend of mine who spent the first year after college as a bellhop for a fancy hotel in Philadelphia is now teaching English classes in Rome. He didn't have to get an advanced degree or anything – just apply for the program and pay for his plane ticket. I know another girl who's doing a similar program in Japan. If you don't mind staying in hostels, flying at odd times, and/or going during the off-peak season, just about any destination can be made reasonably affordable.

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127482 kritt11 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:27:53 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127482 If its due to financial hardship, that's one thing. But if she's another "America Firster" that's a different can of peas. Will we be serving "Freedom toast" and "Freedom Fries" again in the US Senate cafeteria? There is a distinct advantage at having an internationalist like Biden as VP as opposed to someone who hasn't a clue about what other nations viewpoints' are. Our international image is damaged enough from W's Cowboy Diplomacy and Cheney's underhanded machinations. If its due to financial hardship, that's one thing. But if she's another “America Firster” that's a different can of peas. Will we be serving “Freedom toast” and “Freedom Fries” again in the US Senate cafeteria? There is a distinct advantage at having an internationalist like Biden as VP as opposed to someone who hasn't a clue about what other nations viewpoints' are. Our international image is damaged enough from W's Cowboy Diplomacy and Cheney's underhanded machinations.

]]> By: RememberNovember http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127481 RememberNovember Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:10:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127481 Sarah Palin had the advantage of DIPA,( dept of international programs abroad) or the equivalent- which only add the extra living expense abroad. I had two friends who did that, who unfortunately became victims of terrorists over Locherbie and never got to graduate with us. She also, like myself was part of the burgeoning IT generation and most likely an early adopter.. So the excuse she couldn't see the world realistically or virtually is moot. She also bounced around a few schools, which is no easy financial thing to do. Most people make it to Europe at least once within their first two decades. Sarah Palin had the advantage of DIPA,( dept of international programs abroad) or the equivalent- which only add the extra living expense abroad. I had two friends who did that, who unfortunately became victims of terrorists over Locherbie and never got to graduate with us. She also, like myself was part of the burgeoning IT generation and most likely an early adopter.. So the excuse she couldn't see the world realistically or virtually is moot. She also bounced around a few schools, which is no easy financial thing to do. Most people make it to Europe at least once within their first two decades.

]]> By: pacatrue http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127479 pacatrue Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:39:59 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127479 I agree very much that there's nothing wrong with an individual who has not traveled abroad. Sometimes it signals a lack of interest; sometimes it signals no opportunity. However, I believe it IS a serious lack of experience for a possible President of the United States. (Sorry, but I am thinking of her this way.) Foreign policy is an area that the executive branch has almost exclusive control over. So far there's no strong evidence that Palin has previously ever had any significant interest in what could end up being one of her most important tasks. It is a limitation. Of course, there might be tons of other exceptional things about Palin that make up for this. I agree very much that there's nothing wrong with an individual who has not traveled abroad. Sometimes it signals a lack of interest; sometimes it signals no opportunity. However, I believe it IS a serious lack of experience for a possible President of the United States. (Sorry, but I am thinking of her this way.) Foreign policy is an area that the executive branch has almost exclusive control over. So far there's no strong evidence that Palin has previously ever had any significant interest in what could end up being one of her most important tasks. It is a limitation. Of course, there might be tons of other exceptional things about Palin that make up for this.

]]> By: elrod http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127478 elrod Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:08:10 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127478 Mark,<br>The problem with your post is the limits of identity politics. So, you relate to her hardscrabble life. Fine. But you aren't running for VP. She is. <br><br>That she hasn't been abroad isn't bad in itself. It's that she has no position on anything of national or international significance. She simply never prepared for this job. Mark,
The problem with your post is the limits of identity politics. So, you relate to her hardscrabble life. Fine. But you aren't running for VP. She is.

That she hasn't been abroad isn't bad in itself. It's that she has no position on anything of national or international significance. She simply never prepared for this job.

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127477 ChrisWWW Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:03:02 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127477 Jim,<br>Yep... burping of da servers! Jim,
Yep… burping of da servers!

]]> By: Jim_Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127476 Jim_Satterfield Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:32:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127476 Hmmm. I noticed that the same thing with the triple post happened to Chris in another thread. A hiccup in Disqus tonight? Hmmm. I noticed that the same thing with the triple post happened to Chris in another thread. A hiccup in Disqus tonight?

]]> By: Silhouette http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127475 Silhouette Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:17:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127475 Well, Gergen is human...thankfully..<br><br>We all get things wrong now and then. But maybe he didn't on Palin? The jury is still out and will be for years to come..if and until she takes the Oval Office.<br><br>Gergen is just a pleasure to watch. I can feel my blood pressure dropping when lo and behold, out of a pundit's mouth comes wisdom.. Well, Gergen is human…thankfully..

We all get things wrong now and then. But maybe he didn't on Palin? The jury is still out and will be for years to come..if and until she takes the Oval Office.

Gergen is just a pleasure to watch. I can feel my blood pressure dropping when lo and behold, out of a pundit's mouth comes wisdom..

]]> By: MJDaniels53 http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127474 MJDaniels53 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:09:29 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127474 Hmm. The same thing happened to me as happened to you, Jim. Hmm. The same thing happened to me as happened to you, Jim.

]]> By: MJDaniels53 http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127473 MJDaniels53 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:07:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127473 Hey, Jim, is there a web site called 'On the Issues'? I'm just yanking your chain, man.<br><br>No doubt Palin is thin on foreign policy, as I said. That may be something we would expect of mayors and governors who haven't fun for federal office before. It may also incite genuine concern about her fitness for the vice presidency.<br><br>But it's illogical to conclude that simply because one hasn't had the financial wherewithal to go abroad that one lacks curiosity about the world.<br><br>That simply, was my point.<br><br>Sil:<br>As I mentioned several times in the piece, I like Gergen. I began by telling him that I'm a fan. I feel that he got this one wrong.<br><br>(I also admitted that I get things wrong. I will tell you that doing so is not an infrequent occurrence on my part.)<br><br>Mark Hey, Jim, is there a web site called 'On the Issues'? I'm just yanking your chain, man.

No doubt Palin is thin on foreign policy, as I said. That may be something we would expect of mayors and governors who haven't fun for federal office before. It may also incite genuine concern about her fitness for the vice presidency.

But it's illogical to conclude that simply because one hasn't had the financial wherewithal to go abroad that one lacks curiosity about the world.

That simply, was my point.

Sil:
As I mentioned several times in the piece, I like Gergen. I began by telling him that I'm a fan. I feel that he got this one wrong.

(I also admitted that I get things wrong. I will tell you that doing so is not an infrequent occurrence on my part.)

Mark

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127472 ChrisWWW Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:03:39 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127472 Jim spam! Jim spam!

]]> By: Jim_Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127470 Jim_Satterfield Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:00:33 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127470 There is a web site called <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org">On the Issues</a>. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm">Sarah Palin</a> there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty. There is a web site called On the Issues. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For Sarah Palin there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty.

]]> By: Jim_Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127471 Jim_Satterfield Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:00:33 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127471 There is a web site called <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org">On the Issues</a>. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm">Sarah Palin</a> there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty. There is a web site called On the Issues. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For Sarah Palin there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty.

]]> By: Jim_Satterfield http://themoderatevoice.com/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/comment-page-1/#comment-127469 Jim_Satterfield Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:00:30 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/japan/22425/memo-to-david-gergen/#comment-127469 There is a web site called <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org">On the Issues</a>. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm">Sarah Palin</a> there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty. There is a web site called On the Issues. It provides summaries of any stands that a candidate/politician has taken on various categories of issues and provides the quotes to back it up. For Sarah Palin there is nothing under Foreign Policy, Immigration or Welfare and Poverty.

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