The comments, mercifully, move away from the post and just rant about whatever they like, which range from hitting Obama's record to calling everyone right-of-center a wingnut.

Does anyone on the Internet actually talk to other people, or is all their communication done by shouting at strangers in comment threads?

Even your recap of past events isn't factual. I never 'walked away', I simply started expressing the fact that I was beginning to feel that it was a waste of my time to comment here, and began doing so less frequently. Even expressing that sentiment brought hysterical criticism, just like your ridiculous characterization of some of the right of center former bloggers as 'pro-censorship wingnuts'. The people who gave up attempting to blog here did so not because they were 'pro-censorship', but because they were tired of the comment policy being enforced for some bloggers but not others (certain bloggers couldn't be personally criticized in the comment section, while others had insults continuously posted which were ignored.)

It's my opinion that this kind of atmosphere leads to an echo chamber, where commenters read only what they agree with and insult bloggers or commenters with whom they disagree until those people give up and go away. That doesn't strike me as very intellectually honest, nor does it strike me as healthy for our country's political atmosphere. If you disagree with that, fine, but I think many observers will note that in your disagreement with me, you provided the example of exactly what I'm referring to.

I certainly appreciate you giving me permission to believe as I wish… That's mighty big of you… You're welcome to your opinion(s), too.

Facts are funny things CStanley so I know you'll understand that some might see your comment as condescending and self-righteous. Especially those of us who remember you walking away from TMV during an exodus of 'pro-censorship' wingnuts… Wingnuts who, though wielding the power of censorship, felt put upon and abused.

True enough that it's what you have done with that experience that matters though, and certainly some people can effectively argue that Bush's decisions in those cases were often wrongheaded.

SteveK, you can believe what you want, but the fact is that even when people like myself or Austin are moderate in tone, we often don't get moderate responses in reply. I work at being as non-emotive as possible in my comments, though even I have found it impossible at times. I think if you note my comments, you'll see that I do try to actually debate issues and present alternate viewpoints, and I'll engage anyone who'll respond in kind.

Those who've been visiting TMV for a while know that it used to be routine to have in depth debates in the comment section that wen't on for hundreds of comments, without much trolling or insulting going on. I found those discussions very engaging, and learned a lot about viewpoints that were further left than my own. I found it very helpful to get a better perspective on why people held the political views that they held; now, though, the discussions rarely enlighten in that way because people regurgitate talking points in most cases.

And no, the center right hasn't disappeared; they've just gone elsewhere or given up on blogs entirely.

Has Obama ever used a veto? You mean like George W. Bush? Vetoeing bills to halp the poor, cure the sick, and support out troops

Has Obama ever commanded troops? You mean like Bush's Texas national Guard service, or like his disaster called Iraq?

Has Obama ever managed a governemnt department? You mean like Bush's FEMA, etc.?

Has Obama ever appointed a judge? You mean like those rightwing judges appointed by Bush who condone torture and have thrown habeas corpus out of the White House window?

Has Obama ever cut funding to a program? You mean like Bush attempting to cut funding for the GI Bill of Rights, or actually doing it for health care, for MEDICAID, MEDICARE, or for social security, or for CHIPS, or for so many other social programs?

Has Obama ever negoatied a multibillion dollar business deal with a foreign power? You mean like Bush's attempt to give Kuwait control of our ports, etc.,?

Straying off the PC-Dem-monopoly planation, literally, in the first case and out of the PC-Dem-monopoly kitchen-nursery in the second.

Try whining and “exaggerating” about something else. [sigh]

And I gave credit to CStanley for doing a better job than me staying civil. I used to be, but haven't been for a long time. I am on the occasional post, but I get attacked just as much, because it is not my tone that offends, it is the content of my messages.

They didn't give up AustinRoth… The 'moderate right' has stopped being moderate. Those of you who are still here have increasingly lashed out at centrists and the moderate left as if we were the cause of the schism you and yours are going through but it's not us… it's you.

Mouse over your screen ID (or daveinbocas) and read the last 10 comments you've made. Do you think they are moderate? Do you think they invite reasoned discussion from people that disagree with your position? I don't think they are but I may be mistaken.

I do believe though that if you would 'moderate' the way you present your position(s) you'd be surprised to find that people on 'the other side' would actually start replying instead of shooting back in kind.

Whether you have taken sides or not, there is not doubt that the vultures are circling. We have heard all of the known stories

- Troopergate, and then replacing the fired director with a known sex offender.
- Being for the bridge to no where before she was against the bridge to no where.
- Being opposed to earmarks while accepting 27 million over 4 years

And now other things are coming out. Like when she tried to fire (and was forced to reinsate) the city librarian because she refused to follow her book banning order. That's right==she didn't like some of the books in the library and she was going to fire the librarian.

As a rational person, I would question her judgement. Like when she gave the speech to the governors meeting in Houston whle she was in the eigth month of her pregnancy with the downs child. Her water broke and she started to go into contractions. Instead of going to a hospital in Houston, she flew a connecting flight thorugh Seattle to Anchorage and then drove to her clinic in her home town to deliver the baby. If you described that set of facts TO ANYONE they will tell you that she is insane.

Unlike many of the people out there, I don't begrudge her the shot at the VP spot even though she has a 17 yo pregnant daughter and a child with downs syndrome. As a parent with two autistic kids, I know how tough it can be, but also that you can make steps to work around it. In most situations the presumption is that the “other” spouse will handle things. I would love to here what her plans are to take care of her children—Is her husband going to be a stay at home dad, or will family help?–before I were to make a judgement.

However, her track record does not speak positively. Just sayin.

Most of the old moderate right posters gave up long ago, and vamoosed. CStanley is one of the few that stayed, but has managed to keep from lashing out in frustration (I certainly haven't been able to show such restraint at times)

I pretty much agree with you. Joe himself is still pretty fair in his blogging, but some of the other contributors have jumped the shark, ala Andrew Sullivan. Kinda a shame as many other moderate bloggers have stopped posting or chosen sides. I'm guilty of this myself as I am a fan of McCain, but I enjoyed coming here to get some perspective from time to time, but the recent flurry of Palin posts has confrimed my fears that this blog has also taken one of the branches in the road. I can't really fault them for that, since as I admitted freely, so have I, but I can mourn the loss of a balanced reasource.

I still do, however look forward to reading the posts written by Joe, I think he is for Obama but at least he presents rational arguments and observations.

As we saw with former CEO's like Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney- executive experience may not lead to an ability to function with Washington bureaucrats.

Palin is more of an executive than half-term Senator Obama….

The hysterics on the Dem left makes me think the ladies do protest too much!

They are aware that McCain has pulled the rug out from under their pretensions.

Which one of the four people on the ticket have taken on Big Oil and won?

Why that would be…….

Sarah Palin.