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	<title>Comments on: McCain&#8217;s Increasingly Negative Campaign Begins Worrying Some Republicans</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123430</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123430</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, I thought McCain showed a bit better thinking by addressing Obama&#039;s fluff reputation (which Obama is working to dispel, we all know, so don&#039;t overreact to this fact) by picturing him as a celebrity like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears (also liked by the young).  He was late in showing this ad, though.  Plus, wackier Obama worshippers will promptly see racism in that ad -- ignoring the obvious celebrity theme -- and ask aloud, as the New York Times Dem flagship Obama worshipper outlet did, why is Obama being pictured with two white women?  Covert racism, naturally.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The New York Times is not just being a cult worshipper but prostituting itself (and its already &quot;fallen&quot; reputation).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/obama-britney-paris-the-low-road-express-goes-lower/&quot;&gt;http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/ob...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, I thought McCain showed a bit better thinking by addressing Obama&#39;s fluff reputation (which Obama is working to dispel, we all know, so don&#39;t overreact to this fact) by picturing him as a celebrity like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears (also liked by the young).  He was late in showing this ad, though.  Plus, wackier Obama worshippers will promptly see racism in that ad &#8212; ignoring the obvious celebrity theme &#8212; and ask aloud, as the New York Times Dem flagship Obama worshipper outlet did, why is Obama being pictured with two white women?  Covert racism, naturally.</p>
<p>The New York Times is not just being a cult worshipper but prostituting itself (and its already &#8220;fallen&#8221; reputation).</p>
<p><a href="http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/obama-britney-paris-the-low-road-express-goes-lower/"></a><a href="http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/ob.." rel="nofollow">http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/ob..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123428</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123428</guid>
		<description>&quot;Amazing that Obama is not light-years ahead.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain continues his &quot;default&quot; or &quot;survivor&quot; campaign, weak as it is.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What support he gets is as Pacatrue said, for basic conservative principles, which Obama does not represent; McCain&#039;s support is not limited to the paranoid crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Amazing that Obama is not light-years ahead.&#8221;</p>
<p>McCain continues his &#8220;default&#8221; or &#8220;survivor&#8221; campaign, weak as it is.</p>
<p>What support he gets is as Pacatrue said, for basic conservative principles, which Obama does not represent; McCain&#39;s support is not limited to the paranoid crowd.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123427</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123427</guid>
		<description>&quot;What are you driving to absorb that kind of damage to your wallet?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh, I don&#039;t have a fuel saver like my brother bought last year (and is highly relieved now).  I still drive my small pickup, admittedly a small, not a large one.  My solution has been to stop driving 800+ miles!  I don&#039;t even take trips of 250 miles any more.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was surprised to find myself responding in this way as fuel approached the $2.00 rather than today&#039;s $4.00 level.  And at $4.00?  I have to drive back to Iowa at least twice next month, and I dread that.  I haven&#039;t even gone from Detroit up to Mackinac (500+ round trip).  Nor have I gone to St. Louis yet, to friends in Upstate NY, or to Washington, DC.  Maybe I&#039;ll take one rare trip to these places if I save up the funds first (after recovery from Iowa hangover).  800-1,300+ in a day?  No way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What are you driving to absorb that kind of damage to your wallet?&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, I don&#39;t have a fuel saver like my brother bought last year (and is highly relieved now).  I still drive my small pickup, admittedly a small, not a large one.  My solution has been to stop driving 800+ miles!  I don&#39;t even take trips of 250 miles any more.</p>
<p>I was surprised to find myself responding in this way as fuel approached the $2.00 rather than today&#39;s $4.00 level.  And at $4.00?  I have to drive back to Iowa at least twice next month, and I dread that.  I haven&#39;t even gone from Detroit up to Mackinac (500+ round trip).  Nor have I gone to St. Louis yet, to friends in Upstate NY, or to Washington, DC.  Maybe I&#39;ll take one rare trip to these places if I save up the funds first (after recovery from Iowa hangover).  800-1,300+ in a day?  No way.</p>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123425</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123425</guid>
		<description>I think Obama is not light years ahead because many millions of Americans agree with McCain&#039;s policies and admire his long history. There are real values and real policies that people care about. That&#039;s one reason the dumb character attacks based upon fabrications anger me so. There&#039;s a conservative philosophy that appeals to Americans. McCain needs to start arguing for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Obama is not light years ahead because many millions of Americans agree with McCain&#39;s policies and admire his long history. There are real values and real policies that people care about. That&#39;s one reason the dumb character attacks based upon fabrications anger me so. There&#39;s a conservative philosophy that appeals to Americans. McCain needs to start arguing for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123422</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123422</guid>
		<description>DLS said:  &quot;650 is nothing; 800+ (routine for me) is not even impressive.&lt;br&gt;What _is_ impressive is the rise in fuel prices that make even 250 miles painful.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Gaaah!  You guys must be backed by Big Oil, or have Saudi relatives!!!  Who can drive those miles this summer?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What are you driving to absorb that kind of damage to your wallet?  A Flinstones-mobile...?  DLS, your feet must be hurting some :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rambie said:  &quot;Marlow, so it was wrong of Rove/Bush in 2000 to smear McCain but it&#039;s OK now for McCain to do it to Obama as long as he used a surrogate? &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nope, evil either way.  However, as Elrod noted, surrogates allow candidates to stay &quot;honorable&quot;  (emphasis on the irony here).  McCain is having to do his own mudslinging . . . while Obama has folks to do this job for him.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Again, I have no idea why this is...other than McCain is running a pretty lame campaign all in all.  Amazing that Obama is not light-years ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DLS said:  &#8220;650 is nothing; 800+ (routine for me) is not even impressive.<br />What _is_ impressive is the rise in fuel prices that make even 250 miles painful.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gaaah!  You guys must be backed by Big Oil, or have Saudi relatives!!!  Who can drive those miles this summer?</p>
<p>What are you driving to absorb that kind of damage to your wallet?  A Flinstones-mobile&#8230;?  DLS, your feet must be hurting some <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Rambie said:  &#8220;Marlow, so it was wrong of Rove/Bush in 2000 to smear McCain but it&#39;s OK now for McCain to do it to Obama as long as he used a surrogate? &#8220;</p>
<p>Nope, evil either way.  However, as Elrod noted, surrogates allow candidates to stay &#8220;honorable&#8221;  (emphasis on the irony here).  McCain is having to do his own mudslinging . . . while Obama has folks to do this job for him.</p>
<p>Again, I have no idea why this is&#8230;other than McCain is running a pretty lame campaign all in all.  Amazing that Obama is not light-years ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123421</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123421</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since July 1 I have been on a drive through 3 states, sometime driving 650 miles in a single day.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;650 is nothing; 800+ (routine for me) is not even impressive.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What _is_ impressive is the rise in fuel prices that make even 250 miles painful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Since July 1 I have been on a drive through 3 states, sometime driving 650 miles in a single day.&#8221;</p>
<p>650 is nothing; 800+ (routine for me) is not even impressive.</p>
<p>What _is_ impressive is the rise in fuel prices that make even 250 miles painful.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123419</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123419</guid>
		<description>The Media -- Dem cheerleaders, fans of McCain when he&#039;s a Dem Lite or when he defies the GOP but no longer fans of him now that the Messiah should be in the White House.  Now McCain is &quot;another Bush&quot; [sic], Evil Republican...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The cartoon doesn&#039;t correspond to what is being said.  However, the cartoon is more effective than all the &quot;analysis.&quot;  That is how Americans, not the Team Obama Media, view McCain.  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Media &#8212; Dem cheerleaders, fans of McCain when he&#39;s a Dem Lite or when he defies the GOP but no longer fans of him now that the Messiah should be in the White House.  Now McCain is &#8220;another Bush&#8221; [sic], Evil Republican&#8230;</p>
<p>The cartoon doesn&#39;t correspond to what is being said.  However, the cartoon is more effective than all the &#8220;analysis.&#8221;  That is how Americans, not the Team Obama Media, view McCain.  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123418</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123418</guid>
		<description>Instead of exciting Obama supporters that McCain is running a &quot;bad&quot; campaign (right now), they should instead be worried.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We know historically that McCain&#039;s strategists, who are BigOil strategists one and the same, do not make mistakes...not this many...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So Obama supporters should worry: &quot;why isn&#039;t McCain seeming concerned about his blunders.  Why does he always have that cat that ate the canary smile?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;People with aces up their sleeves often just can&#039;t hide their ambivalence about other high cards turning up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of exciting Obama supporters that McCain is running a &#8220;bad&#8221; campaign (right now), they should instead be worried.</p>
<p>We know historically that McCain&#39;s strategists, who are BigOil strategists one and the same, do not make mistakes&#8230;not this many&#8230;</p>
<p>So Obama supporters should worry: &#8220;why isn&#39;t McCain seeming concerned about his blunders.  Why does he always have that cat that ate the canary smile?&#8221;</p>
<p>People with aces up their sleeves often just can&#39;t hide their ambivalence about other high cards turning up.</p>
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		<title>By: timr</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123417</link>
		<dc:creator>timr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123417</guid>
		<description>jwest, Obama did not visit the troops in Germany because his senate fact finding trip had ended, all his senate staff had gone home, and this part of the trip was purely political. The PENTAGON has said-many times if one had bothered to listen-that political trips are not allowed. The reason that Obama canx his trip was not because no cameras were allowed-per McCain view, which view I must point out, even the MSM(McCains base) says is a lie-but because he did not want the visit to be deemed political-at which point McCain jumps in and says that it is because Obama hates the troops- so Obama is damned if he does, and damned if he does not.-I have been watching politics since the JFK election in 1960. I have watched how, in both state and federal elections, the republician party  has, over the years, gone from a party of ideas to a party of dirty tricks, mud slinging, lying, with nothing at all out of bounds.-Lee Atwater, as he was dying apologized to the dems for starting up the win at any cost campaigns-Republicians have become what they portray and demonize dems as, the win at any cost, the poison pen, the anonymous hate letter. Never articulating their vision, they only seek to destroy their opponent. And so it comes once more. I voted for McCain in the 2000 Mi primary, but there is no way that I will vote for him this year. In his blind pursuit of the presidency, he has thrown his honor away. He has joined the rove wedge way of winning. Just like bush, it looks like he has decided that he can govern with only 51% of the people and to hell with the other 49%. I had hoped to god that this cycle of destructive politics had run its course, and that the voters will see thru the mud and BS to get to the real kinds of things that need debate. Policies and vision. Don&#039;t tell me how wrong/bad/traitorous the democratic  person is. I want to know what your vision is, what you will do that is new and different from bush. So far all I see is a bush clone.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Neocon, yes Obama is half black-so what? Does that bother you? It makes no difference to me. BTW I am a 60 year old white man. Retired. I have had black, asian, and latino-women and men co workers and supervisors. It makes no difference to me. As long as the person running for president is smart and has lots of common sense, that is all I want. I don&#039;t care if he would be a person that I could sit and have a beer with-we did that, how have the last 8 years worked out for you?&lt;br&gt; Obama has a muslim middle name.-and this is noteworthy why? Who cares-well besides racists, Fox TV and general haters that is. Guess what, it is a new world, and to the vast majority of people under 30-who I believe will determine who is the winner this time-it is nothing but sound and fury signifying nothing. The majority of young people know a gay person-most families have at least 1 or 2-a minority person-latinos will become,based on their current birthrates, the majority race in the US within 30 years, so what. I am a 2nd generation american, my wife is asian, one of my kids married a WASP, another married a AA(african american) so what. Everyone-as we all learned in the Army-bleeds red.&lt;br&gt; Obama can&#039;t bowl-again so what, who cares. I can&#039;t bowl,( my korean/japanese wife belongs to 3 different bowling leagues), but the big sport among people under lets say 40 is basketball, and he plays that real well. He can&#039;t bowl. Can McCain? Obama has a muslim name, and  is, and has been a christian, yet is still thought by roughly 12% of the american people to be a muslim. Meanwhile, McCain seems to be more of a drive by xristian, yet no one in the republician party will call him on it. BTW, it is both silly and juvenile to continue-as all the republicians and right wing talk radio hosts do-to call a member of the democratic party a democRAT. I think that republicians who do this should grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jwest, Obama did not visit the troops in Germany because his senate fact finding trip had ended, all his senate staff had gone home, and this part of the trip was purely political. The PENTAGON has said-many times if one had bothered to listen-that political trips are not allowed. The reason that Obama canx his trip was not because no cameras were allowed-per McCain view, which view I must point out, even the MSM(McCains base) says is a lie-but because he did not want the visit to be deemed political-at which point McCain jumps in and says that it is because Obama hates the troops- so Obama is damned if he does, and damned if he does not.-I have been watching politics since the JFK election in 1960. I have watched how, in both state and federal elections, the republician party  has, over the years, gone from a party of ideas to a party of dirty tricks, mud slinging, lying, with nothing at all out of bounds.-Lee Atwater, as he was dying apologized to the dems for starting up the win at any cost campaigns-Republicians have become what they portray and demonize dems as, the win at any cost, the poison pen, the anonymous hate letter. Never articulating their vision, they only seek to destroy their opponent. And so it comes once more. I voted for McCain in the 2000 Mi primary, but there is no way that I will vote for him this year. In his blind pursuit of the presidency, he has thrown his honor away. He has joined the rove wedge way of winning. Just like bush, it looks like he has decided that he can govern with only 51% of the people and to hell with the other 49%. I had hoped to god that this cycle of destructive politics had run its course, and that the voters will see thru the mud and BS to get to the real kinds of things that need debate. Policies and vision. Don&#39;t tell me how wrong/bad/traitorous the democratic  person is. I want to know what your vision is, what you will do that is new and different from bush. So far all I see is a bush clone.</p>
<p>Neocon, yes Obama is half black-so what? Does that bother you? It makes no difference to me. BTW I am a 60 year old white man. Retired. I have had black, asian, and latino-women and men co workers and supervisors. It makes no difference to me. As long as the person running for president is smart and has lots of common sense, that is all I want. I don&#39;t care if he would be a person that I could sit and have a beer with-we did that, how have the last 8 years worked out for you?<br /> Obama has a muslim middle name.-and this is noteworthy why? Who cares-well besides racists, Fox TV and general haters that is. Guess what, it is a new world, and to the vast majority of people under 30-who I believe will determine who is the winner this time-it is nothing but sound and fury signifying nothing. The majority of young people know a gay person-most families have at least 1 or 2-a minority person-latinos will become,based on their current birthrates, the majority race in the US within 30 years, so what. I am a 2nd generation american, my wife is asian, one of my kids married a WASP, another married a AA(african american) so what. Everyone-as we all learned in the Army-bleeds red.<br /> Obama can&#39;t bowl-again so what, who cares. I can&#39;t bowl,( my korean/japanese wife belongs to 3 different bowling leagues), but the big sport among people under lets say 40 is basketball, and he plays that real well. He can&#39;t bowl. Can McCain? Obama has a muslim name, and  is, and has been a christian, yet is still thought by roughly 12% of the american people to be a muslim. Meanwhile, McCain seems to be more of a drive by xristian, yet no one in the republician party will call him on it. BTW, it is both silly and juvenile to continue-as all the republicians and right wing talk radio hosts do-to call a member of the democratic party a democRAT. I think that republicians who do this should grow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Rambie</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123415</link>
		<dc:creator>Rambie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123415</guid>
		<description>Joe, I think you missed a import part.:   &quot;...But some Republicans worry that by going negative so early, and initiating so many of the attacks himself rather than leaving them to others, Mr. McCain risks coming across as angry or partisan...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sounds like these worried Republicans have no problems going negative -- is it known as Rovian now? --  it&#039;s that he&#039;s going negative TOO early.  &lt;br&gt;--------------------------&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Marlow, so it was wrong of Rove/Bush in 2000 to smear McCain but it&#039;s OK now for McCain to do it to Obama as long as he used a surrogate?   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are plenty of blogs on both sides.  To sit here and claim that only the far-left-wack-jobs have the market cornered is a lie.   Clean your own house. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Neocon, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;McCain has a black baby!&quot; - FACT   That type of smear job can work both ways.  I hope Obama can stay above that type of mud slinging Rove worked so hard to perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I think you missed a import part.:   &#8220;&#8230;But some Republicans worry that by going negative so early, and initiating so many of the attacks himself rather than leaving them to others, Mr. McCain risks coming across as angry or partisan&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like these worried Republicans have no problems going negative &#8212; is it known as Rovian now? &#8212;  it&#39;s that he&#39;s going negative TOO early.  <br />&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Marlow, so it was wrong of Rove/Bush in 2000 to smear McCain but it&#39;s OK now for McCain to do it to Obama as long as he used a surrogate?   </p>
<p>There are plenty of blogs on both sides.  To sit here and claim that only the far-left-wack-jobs have the market cornered is a lie.   Clean your own house. </p>
<p>Neocon, </p>
<p>&#8220;McCain has a black baby!&#8221; &#8211; FACT   That type of smear job can work both ways.  I hope Obama can stay above that type of mud slinging Rove worked so hard to perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123413</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Elrod said:  &quot;Even Bush never sank this low in 2004, always leaving the dirty work to surrogates.... Probably the worst thing for McCain is that he&#039;s losing his honor through this.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Elrod, you are making an important point here.  McCain has no Rove to organize overt/covert surrogate work. &lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t know why this is true...but it is very clearly true.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rove brutalized McCain in SC in 2000.  &lt;br&gt;It was a horror show of racist, homophobic smears.  Bush kept his &quot;honor&quot;, I suppose, in that there were never any fingerprints. . . but it was a vicious win.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama...and certainly his very adept campaign handlers...know very well the vicious attacks that have been made on McCain.  But, like Bush/Rove, there are few visible connections between his campaign and overt or covert surrogates.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain&#039;s campaign lacks a Rove to allow him to win with &quot;honor&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I believe this is McCain&#039;s main weakness...he is having to fling the BS about Obama-hospital himself.   Is he too egotistical to accept an evil genius/cutout?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I fully agree with you.  He is damaging himself.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would add, though, even if it were surrogates hammering Obama, McCain would be denounced with demands that he call off the GOP &quot;attack dogs&quot;...while KOS et al run unleashed.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As Neocon says, the Democrats have defined this contest.  &lt;br&gt;Any criticism of Obama is unacceptable.&lt;br&gt;John McCain, after a lifetime of service to the United States, is dismissed an angry old man, shouting at clouds (like Grampa Simpson - in a cartoon on one blog I recall)...while Obama floats above the clouds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elrod said:  &#8220;Even Bush never sank this low in 2004, always leaving the dirty work to surrogates&#8230;. Probably the worst thing for McCain is that he&#39;s losing his honor through this.&#8221;</p>
<p>Elrod, you are making an important point here.  McCain has no Rove to organize overt/covert surrogate work. <br />I don&#39;t know why this is true&#8230;but it is very clearly true.</p>
<p>Rove brutalized McCain in SC in 2000.  <br />It was a horror show of racist, homophobic smears.  Bush kept his &#8220;honor&#8221;, I suppose, in that there were never any fingerprints. . . but it was a vicious win.</p>
<p>Obama&#8230;and certainly his very adept campaign handlers&#8230;know very well the vicious attacks that have been made on McCain.  But, like Bush/Rove, there are few visible connections between his campaign and overt or covert surrogates.</p>
<p>McCain&#39;s campaign lacks a Rove to allow him to win with &#8220;honor&#8221;.</p>
<p>I believe this is McCain&#39;s main weakness&#8230;he is having to fling the BS about Obama-hospital himself.   Is he too egotistical to accept an evil genius/cutout?</p>
<p>I fully agree with you.  He is damaging himself.  </p>
<p>I would add, though, even if it were surrogates hammering Obama, McCain would be denounced with demands that he call off the GOP &#8220;attack dogs&#8221;&#8230;while KOS et al run unleashed.  </p>
<p>As Neocon says, the Democrats have defined this contest.  <br />Any criticism of Obama is unacceptable.<br />John McCain, after a lifetime of service to the United States, is dismissed an angry old man, shouting at clouds (like Grampa Simpson &#8211; in a cartoon on one blog I recall)&#8230;while Obama floats above the clouds.</p>
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		<title>By: jwest</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123412</link>
		<dc:creator>jwest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123412</guid>
		<description>Joe,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You cite Andrea Mitchell and the Washington Post refuting McCain’s claim that Obama didn’t visit the wounded troops because he couldn’t bring the media.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why didn’t he visit them?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There were certainly no rules preventing him.  He claimed that people would perceive a visit as a campaign promotion, but that would be highly unlikely if he went alone out of concern for the troops.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Big mistake on Obama’s part and no way to spin it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>You cite Andrea Mitchell and the Washington Post refuting McCain’s claim that Obama didn’t visit the wounded troops because he couldn’t bring the media.</p>
<p>Why didn’t he visit them?</p>
<p>There were certainly no rules preventing him.  He claimed that people would perceive a visit as a campaign promotion, but that would be highly unlikely if he went alone out of concern for the troops.</p>
<p>Big mistake on Obama’s part and no way to spin it.</p>
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		<title>By: elrod</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123411</link>
		<dc:creator>elrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123411</guid>
		<description>Marlowe,&lt;br&gt;You are completely missing the point. Of course there are leftwing bloggers who have slung inappropriate mud at McCain. This isn&#039;t about Americablog, just as this isn&#039;t about Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. It&#039;s about John McCain himself. When has the candidate himself so dissolved into a whirlwind of BS like this? Even Bush never sank this low in 2004, always leaving the dirty work to surrogates.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What you don&#039;t realize is that John McCain cannot win this election by an appeal-to-the-base mudslinging contest. His base is too small this year. He NEEDS Independents who flocked to him in 2000 as that year&#039;s Perot model.  His latest tirades only serve to alienate those Independents.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, he needs to fight. But he looks desperate right now, flinging charges that are blatantly untrue. His ad about cameras and visiting the troops is a complete lie. His defense of the ad is even worse - a deeper lie. Not stretching the truth or exaggerating a bit - a complete lie. And one that media WHO WERE THERE can dispute. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Probably the worst thing for McCain is that he&#039;s losing his honor through this. I know he cares about that, even if his advisers don&#039;t understand the concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marlowe,<br />You are completely missing the point. Of course there are leftwing bloggers who have slung inappropriate mud at McCain. This isn&#39;t about Americablog, just as this isn&#39;t about Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. It&#39;s about John McCain himself. When has the candidate himself so dissolved into a whirlwind of BS like this? Even Bush never sank this low in 2004, always leaving the dirty work to surrogates.</p>
<p>What you don&#39;t realize is that John McCain cannot win this election by an appeal-to-the-base mudslinging contest. His base is too small this year. He NEEDS Independents who flocked to him in 2000 as that year&#39;s Perot model.  His latest tirades only serve to alienate those Independents.</p>
<p>Yes, he needs to fight. But he looks desperate right now, flinging charges that are blatantly untrue. His ad about cameras and visiting the troops is a complete lie. His defense of the ad is even worse &#8211; a deeper lie. Not stretching the truth or exaggerating a bit &#8211; a complete lie. And one that media WHO WERE THERE can dispute. </p>
<p>Probably the worst thing for McCain is that he&#39;s losing his honor through this. I know he cares about that, even if his advisers don&#39;t understand the concept.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123410</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123410</guid>
		<description>Good analysis Joe. Conservatives who truly care about their party will concentrate on it&#039;s positive aspects and spend less time searching for scapegoats or being willing fodder for the worst of thier radio and cable personalities. &quot;United we stand, divided we fall&quot; needs to once again become a greater part of our national lexicon. The McCain camp would do well to wake up to this (once obvious) fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analysis Joe. Conservatives who truly care about their party will concentrate on it&#39;s positive aspects and spend less time searching for scapegoats or being willing fodder for the worst of thier radio and cable personalities. &#8220;United we stand, divided we fall&#8221; needs to once again become a greater part of our national lexicon. The McCain camp would do well to wake up to this (once obvious) fact.</p>
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		<title>By: christoofar</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123409</link>
		<dc:creator>christoofar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123409</guid>
		<description>Negative has gotten us where we are today, divided into&quot;far left&quot; and &quot;far right&quot;.&lt;br&gt;What a great place to be...and so it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Negative has gotten us where we are today, divided into&#8221;far left&#8221; and &#8220;far right&#8221;.<br />What a great place to be&#8230;and so it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123408</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123408</guid>
		<description>Barak Obama is only half black......fact &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh thats negative and racist. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barak Obama has a muslim name...........fact.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh thats negative and racist.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barak Obama can&#039;t bowl...........fact&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh thats negative and racist.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No matter what is said about Barak Obama.  No matter what.  If it does not agree with him it is negative.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Left defined the debate over the war and they won and won big.  They learned after years of being beaten into the ground by defending what they believed and losing big time that it was best to define the battle.  That is what this is all about.  Defining the battle.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Dont be negative.  Negative is evil.  If your negative your an evil Republican.  Republicans are evil.  Vote for Obama no matter what the policies are all about.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Its pure genius.  They learned well from the GOP.  The GOP just needs to learn how to redefine the battle once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barak Obama is only half black&#8230;&#8230;fact </p>
<p>Oh thats negative and racist. </p>
<p>Barak Obama has a muslim name&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..fact.</p>
<p>Oh thats negative and racist.</p>
<p>Barak Obama can&#39;t bowl&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..fact</p>
<p>Oh thats negative and racist.</p>
<p>No matter what is said about Barak Obama.  No matter what.  If it does not agree with him it is negative.</p>
<p>The Left defined the debate over the war and they won and won big.  They learned after years of being beaten into the ground by defending what they believed and losing big time that it was best to define the battle.  That is what this is all about.  Defining the battle.  </p>
<p>Dont be negative.  Negative is evil.  If your negative your an evil Republican.  Republicans are evil.  Vote for Obama no matter what the policies are all about.</p>
<p>Its pure genius.  They learned well from the GOP.  The GOP just needs to learn how to redefine the battle once again.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123407</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123407</guid>
		<description>Since McCain has zero chance of winning, does it really matter that he goes negative or not?  I guess whining about McCain&#039;s negative ads gives the media an excuse not to review any of Senator Obama&#039;s policy positions.  The media has probably spent more time wondering who McCain will pick for vice-president instead of looking at possible Senator Obama&#039;s running mates. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, the media should be reporting how few people are really undecided instead of talking about some non-specific group of swing voters that probably do not exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since McCain has zero chance of winning, does it really matter that he goes negative or not?  I guess whining about McCain&#39;s negative ads gives the media an excuse not to review any of Senator Obama&#39;s policy positions.  The media has probably spent more time wondering who McCain will pick for vice-president instead of looking at possible Senator Obama&#39;s running mates. </p>
<p>Also, the media should be reporting how few people are really undecided instead of talking about some non-specific group of swing voters that probably do not exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123406</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123406</guid>
		<description>Lots of fascinating bits in this post.  Another line jumps out at me: &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Joe said:  &quot;...the media has long respected McCain...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is true.  But again, I am reminded of the media&#039;s respect for Bob Dole in 1996.  The media didn&#039;t respect Bill Clinton at all, BUT . . . again, in a sadly High School Musical way . . . they preferred to go home with their latest crush than with that earnest guy they had known and taken for granted for years.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The media know their wall-to-wall coverage of Obama is boosting him.  It doesn&#039;t matter if they criticize him  in the voiceovers...the images are GOLD.  This has been a basic truism of American politics since Diane Sawyer&#039;s infamous &quot;critique&quot; of Reagan in 1984 earned her this accolade from the Reagan White House, as Sawyer recounts:&lt;br&gt;&quot;&quot;Diane,&quot; he replied, &quot;you don&#039;t understand. No one listens to the news. People watch the news. It is television and they are viewers. You gave us eight minutes of golden images. We couldn&#039;t have paid for better publicity. We owe you one.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of fascinating bits in this post.  Another line jumps out at me: </p>
<p>Joe said:  &#8220;&#8230;the media has long respected McCain&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>This is true.  But again, I am reminded of the media&#39;s respect for Bob Dole in 1996.  The media didn&#39;t respect Bill Clinton at all, BUT . . . again, in a sadly High School Musical way . . . they preferred to go home with their latest crush than with that earnest guy they had known and taken for granted for years.</p>
<p>The media know their wall-to-wall coverage of Obama is boosting him.  It doesn&#39;t matter if they criticize him  in the voiceovers&#8230;the images are GOLD.  This has been a basic truism of American politics since Diane Sawyer&#39;s infamous &#8220;critique&#8221; of Reagan in 1984 earned her this accolade from the Reagan White House, as Sawyer recounts:<br />&#8220;&#8221;Diane,&#8221; he replied, &#8220;you don&#39;t understand. No one listens to the news. People watch the news. It is television and they are viewers. You gave us eight minutes of golden images. We couldn&#39;t have paid for better publicity. We owe you one.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stop US Wars &#187; Blog Archive &#187; McCain’s Increasingly Negative Campaign Begins Worrying Some &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-113513</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop US Wars &#187; Blog Archive &#187; McCain’s Increasingly Negative Campaign Begins Worrying Some &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-113513</guid>
		<description>[...] Smite jonz wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptIn recent days Senator John McCain has charged that Senator Barack Obama “would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign,” tarred him as “Dr. No” on energy policy and run advertisements calling him responsible for high gas &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Smite jonz wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptIn recent days Senator John McCain has charged that Senator Barack Obama “would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign,” tarred him as “Dr. No” on energy policy and run advertisements calling him responsible for high gas &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-123405</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/negative-campaigning/21421/mccains-going-negative-begins-to-trouble-some-in-gop/#comment-123405</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with Joe here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When the New York Times -- a paper with a history of hostilty to the GOP in general, and more lately McCain in particular (see sloppily sourced, innuendo laden, front-page above the fold, thinly veiled accusations of extramarital affairs) - features a story based on the weasel words &quot;Some Republicans...&quot; (Who? Lots of Republicans in the US.) urging McCain to be kind to the Democrats -- one should start checking one&#039;s wallet.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Joe said:  &quot;And it starts a cycle: the other side will then feel it has to respond in kind&quot;;  &quot;or letting surrogates go after the entire Democratic party, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But the &quot;other side&quot; (i.e., the Democrats) have been slagging McCain for months.&lt;br&gt;-- See above NYT smear (massively criticized across the US media as a smear, and appalling journalism).&lt;br&gt;-- See a wide range of Democratic surrogates in the blogosphere...who have openly accused McCain of betraying the United States while a POW (Americablog)...of illegitimately milking/faking his disability from being a POW (Americablog)...of not being presidential material because of his bad teeth (Markos himself).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;God, MediaMatters/ThinkProgress daily FULL CAPS &quot;shocked and appalled&quot; headers attacking McCain are relentless.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama can be &quot;Mr.Clean&quot; precisely BECAUSE his allies in the liberal blogosphere and the media are flinging crap daily at McCain. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain and his campaign are understandably frustrated.  There was a whining tone in their complaints with Obama was in Europe...and they quickly turned that dial down.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This comment of Joe&#039;s is, I think, enormously significant:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;He risks alienating the media when he throws down the gauntlet as they focus on the newer political story.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BUT...the media wants to focus on Obama, their newest bright and shining story. &lt;br&gt;The MSM had to be shamed by Tina Fey...of all people...into stepping back from their High School Musical crush during the primaries. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The media MUST be shamed and embarrassed.  My God...when I saw that wall of Newsweek covers with the praying Obama &quot;What he believes&quot; in an airport on the west coast last week I almost gagged.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain needs to fight.  He needs to hammer Obama relentlessly.  Clinton learned this too late. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The MSM will whine as Obama is attacked...not &quot;our&quot; Obama, you are SOOO mean Old Man McCain!...but McCain has to do this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Otherwise, as Huckabee implied, McCain will be &quot;Bob Dole Redux&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with Joe here.</p>
<p>When the New York Times &#8212; a paper with a history of hostilty to the GOP in general, and more lately McCain in particular (see sloppily sourced, innuendo laden, front-page above the fold, thinly veiled accusations of extramarital affairs) &#8211; features a story based on the weasel words &#8220;Some Republicans&#8230;&#8221; (Who? Lots of Republicans in the US.) urging McCain to be kind to the Democrats &#8212; one should start checking one&#39;s wallet.</p>
<p>Joe said:  &#8220;And it starts a cycle: the other side will then feel it has to respond in kind&#8221;;  &#8220;or letting surrogates go after the entire Democratic party, </p>
<p>But the &#8220;other side&#8221; (i.e., the Democrats) have been slagging McCain for months.<br />&#8211; See above NYT smear (massively criticized across the US media as a smear, and appalling journalism).<br />&#8211; See a wide range of Democratic surrogates in the blogosphere&#8230;who have openly accused McCain of betraying the United States while a POW (Americablog)&#8230;of illegitimately milking/faking his disability from being a POW (Americablog)&#8230;of not being presidential material because of his bad teeth (Markos himself).</p>
<p>God, MediaMatters/ThinkProgress daily FULL CAPS &#8220;shocked and appalled&#8221; headers attacking McCain are relentless.</p>
<p>Obama can be &#8220;Mr.Clean&#8221; precisely BECAUSE his allies in the liberal blogosphere and the media are flinging crap daily at McCain. </p>
<p>McCain and his campaign are understandably frustrated.  There was a whining tone in their complaints with Obama was in Europe&#8230;and they quickly turned that dial down.</p>
<p>This comment of Joe&#39;s is, I think, enormously significant:</p>
<p>&#8220;He risks alienating the media when he throws down the gauntlet as they focus on the newer political story.&#8221;</p>
<p>BUT&#8230;the media wants to focus on Obama, their newest bright and shining story. <br />The MSM had to be shamed by Tina Fey&#8230;of all people&#8230;into stepping back from their High School Musical crush during the primaries. </p>
<p>The media MUST be shamed and embarrassed.  My God&#8230;when I saw that wall of Newsweek covers with the praying Obama &#8220;What he believes&#8221; in an airport on the west coast last week I almost gagged.  </p>
<p>McCain needs to fight.  He needs to hammer Obama relentlessly.  Clinton learned this too late. </p>
<p>The MSM will whine as Obama is attacked&#8230;not &#8220;our&#8221; Obama, you are SOOO mean Old Man McCain!&#8230;but McCain has to do this.</p>
<p>Otherwise, as Huckabee implied, McCain will be &#8220;Bob Dole Redux&#8221;.</p>
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