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	<title>Comments on: Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising</title>
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		<title>By: StockBoySF</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121860</link>
		<dc:creator>StockBoySF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121860</guid>
		<description>Damozel, good comments.  I want to add one thing to this, &quot;Many are furious at the DNC and the party for trying to end the primaries (VERY) early. It turns out that people really did feel passionate about this process; they wanted all their votes to count, and many feel that the party itself tried to disenfranchise them to pick the candidate it wanted rather than let them pick the candidate.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama was all for letting the primaries play out to the end, he never asked for them to end early.  He foresaw the situation we are now in and tried to deflect it.... Unfortunately he is being unfairly blamed (just like your comment about Hillary&#039;s supporters&#039; perception that the media did it best to destroy her and those supporters are blaming Obama).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damozel, good comments.  I want to add one thing to this, &#8220;Many are furious at the DNC and the party for trying to end the primaries (VERY) early. It turns out that people really did feel passionate about this process; they wanted all their votes to count, and many feel that the party itself tried to disenfranchise them to pick the candidate it wanted rather than let them pick the candidate.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Obama was all for letting the primaries play out to the end, he never asked for them to end early.  He foresaw the situation we are now in and tried to deflect it&#8230;. Unfortunately he is being unfairly blamed (just like your comment about Hillary&#39;s supporters&#39; perception that the media did it best to destroy her and those supporters are blaming Obama).</p>
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		<title>By: DAMOZEL</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121852</link>
		<dc:creator>DAMOZEL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121852</guid>
		<description>I agree that Obama will do better later --- people are suffering at present from &#039;primary fatigue&#039; and the honeymoon between him and progressives was bound to end.  Better  now than closer to the election.  The more they look at McCain, the less likely they&#039;ll be to complain about Obama.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For what it&#039;s worth, here are my thoughts:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a Floridian and former Hillary supporter, I disagree with some of the media discussion about what&#039;s driving the resistance.  I talk to a lot of people who swear they won&#039;t vote for Obama (psst!  they will, though).  They aren&#039;t all motivated by love for Hillary, but by fury at the DNC.  Many of them believe --- as I do --- that he&#039;d have won eventually anyway.  But they don&#039;t like the way his campaign played the game. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;People have tended to dismiss Clinton hardliners with an airy wave of the hand.  That was always a mistake.  If you look at the popular vote during the primaries, there was a LOT of support for Clinton.  And among these people --- never mind if they are right or wrong --- is a widespread perception that they AND their candidate have been dissed, and continue to be dissed, by BOTH Obama&#039;s campaign AND his supporters.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At this stage, It&#039;s not about Clinton any more than a person&#039;s support for a particular college football team is about the individual members of the team. The camps have hardened around the candidates in a way that I doubt either one would have wished.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And the problem Obama has isn&#039;t that he beat Clinton --- many bitter-enders concede that he&#039;d have won anyway.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Many are furious at the DNC and the party for trying to end the primaries (VERY) early.  It turns out that people really did feel passionate about this process; they wanted all their votes to count, and many feel that the party itself tried to disenfranchise them to pick the candidate it wanted rather than let them pick the candidate.  (In other words, they fail to distinguish between the &#039;right&#039; to participate in picking the candidate and the right to participate in picking the president).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sadly for Obama, they want to vent their rage at the party or to punish it for treating them --- as they see it --- without the respect they feel they were entitled to expect.   One said that she couldn&#039;t see any way to do that except by refusing to vote for the nominee.  She doesn&#039;t dislike Obama, but she wants to make the Democratic party and its various arms and operatives understand that they can&#039;t afford to do this again. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama is also being blamed for something I don&#039;t believe was his fault --- the perception of H&#039;s supporters that the media did its best to destroy her.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would like to see Obama bring those people into the fold.  Sadly, too many of his surrogates etc. have publicly expressed the view that the Hillary intransigents are just bitter, petulant, racist, sore losers, etc. rather than responding to a perceived (rightly or wrongly doesn&#039;t matter) imbalance or fundamental lack of fairness in the primary processes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t think a lot of them care whether Hillary is hurt in 2012 by what happens now.  It&#039;s only  a little bit about her or Obama per se.  This isn&#039;t about the candidates, but about aggrieved Hillary supporters&#039; grievance. .  And in the end, it doesn&#039;t matter whether anyone thinks they should or shouldn&#039;t be aggrieved.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama needs their votes; and more to the point --- in a failing economy, where many of his young constituents are paying $4 per gallon for gas --- he needs their money.   He&#039;s going to have to work to prove to him that he really IS the right person to represent them. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hopefully the convention will bring back the excitement and drive up support.  I think it will.  And hopefully his campaign and his supporters will realize that insulting and shaming the hold-outs  --- as some of his surrogates have done --- isn&#039;t helpful to him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Obama will do better later &#8212; people are suffering at present from &#39;primary fatigue&#39; and the honeymoon between him and progressives was bound to end.  Better  now than closer to the election.  The more they look at McCain, the less likely they&#39;ll be to complain about Obama.</p>
<p>For what it&#39;s worth, here are my thoughts:</p>
<p>As a Floridian and former Hillary supporter, I disagree with some of the media discussion about what&#39;s driving the resistance.  I talk to a lot of people who swear they won&#39;t vote for Obama (psst!  they will, though).  They aren&#39;t all motivated by love for Hillary, but by fury at the DNC.  Many of them believe &#8212; as I do &#8212; that he&#39;d have won eventually anyway.  But they don&#39;t like the way his campaign played the game. </p>
<p>People have tended to dismiss Clinton hardliners with an airy wave of the hand.  That was always a mistake.  If you look at the popular vote during the primaries, there was a LOT of support for Clinton.  And among these people &#8212; never mind if they are right or wrong &#8212; is a widespread perception that they AND their candidate have been dissed, and continue to be dissed, by BOTH Obama&#39;s campaign AND his supporters.</p>
<p>At this stage, It&#39;s not about Clinton any more than a person&#39;s support for a particular college football team is about the individual members of the team. The camps have hardened around the candidates in a way that I doubt either one would have wished.  </p>
<p>And the problem Obama has isn&#39;t that he beat Clinton &#8212; many bitter-enders concede that he&#39;d have won anyway.</p>
<p>Many are furious at the DNC and the party for trying to end the primaries (VERY) early.  It turns out that people really did feel passionate about this process; they wanted all their votes to count, and many feel that the party itself tried to disenfranchise them to pick the candidate it wanted rather than let them pick the candidate.  (In other words, they fail to distinguish between the &#39;right&#39; to participate in picking the candidate and the right to participate in picking the president).</p>
<p>Sadly for Obama, they want to vent their rage at the party or to punish it for treating them &#8212; as they see it &#8212; without the respect they feel they were entitled to expect.   One said that she couldn&#39;t see any way to do that except by refusing to vote for the nominee.  She doesn&#39;t dislike Obama, but she wants to make the Democratic party and its various arms and operatives understand that they can&#39;t afford to do this again. </p>
<p>Obama is also being blamed for something I don&#39;t believe was his fault &#8212; the perception of H&#39;s supporters that the media did its best to destroy her.  </p>
<p>I would like to see Obama bring those people into the fold.  Sadly, too many of his surrogates etc. have publicly expressed the view that the Hillary intransigents are just bitter, petulant, racist, sore losers, etc. rather than responding to a perceived (rightly or wrongly doesn&#39;t matter) imbalance or fundamental lack of fairness in the primary processes.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think a lot of them care whether Hillary is hurt in 2012 by what happens now.  It&#39;s only  a little bit about her or Obama per se.  This isn&#39;t about the candidates, but about aggrieved Hillary supporters&#39; grievance. .  And in the end, it doesn&#39;t matter whether anyone thinks they should or shouldn&#39;t be aggrieved.  </p>
<p>Obama needs their votes; and more to the point &#8212; in a failing economy, where many of his young constituents are paying $4 per gallon for gas &#8212; he needs their money.   He&#39;s going to have to work to prove to him that he really IS the right person to represent them. </p>
<p>Hopefully the convention will bring back the excitement and drive up support.  I think it will.  And hopefully his campaign and his supporters will realize that insulting and shaming the hold-outs  &#8212; as some of his surrogates have done &#8212; isn&#39;t helpful to him.</p>
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		<title>By: test &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-113314</link>
		<dc:creator>test &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-113314</guid>
		<description>[...] Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising    Carol Novack wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptAnd if it’s scuttled due to Clinton [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising    Carol Novack wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptAnd if it’s scuttled due to Clinton [...]</p>
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		<title>By: My new WordPress MU Site &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-113313</link>
		<dc:creator>My new WordPress MU Site &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-113313</guid>
		<description>[...] Carol Novack wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptAnd if it’s scuttled due to Clinton supporters sitting on their hands due to hard feelings that stem from personal ire instead of substantive policy differences, you can bet your money in Vegas that another Clinton campaign will face &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Carol Novack wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptAnd if it’s scuttled due to Clinton supporters sitting on their hands due to hard feelings that stem from personal ire instead of substantive policy differences, you can bet your money in Vegas that another Clinton campaign will face &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121850</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121850</guid>
		<description>T_Steel and StockBoy have it right I believe. The enthusiasm which has waned will reassert itself the more we see Obama and McCain compared and contrasted - debates for instance. Politics functions on a plane all it&#039;s own, which explains Obama&#039;s moves toward the center (not to mention polls), but Progress in the real world is critically more important than preserving the downward sliding status quo the GOP has brought us. McCain would bring us more of this downward slide, and I suspect this will all become more painfully obvious by the end of summer. Remember, the Bush administration is still in power and could easily do even more to negatively influence McCain&#039;s appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T_Steel and StockBoy have it right I believe. The enthusiasm which has waned will reassert itself the more we see Obama and McCain compared and contrasted &#8211; debates for instance. Politics functions on a plane all it&#39;s own, which explains Obama&#39;s moves toward the center (not to mention polls), but Progress in the real world is critically more important than preserving the downward sliding status quo the GOP has brought us. McCain would bring us more of this downward slide, and I suspect this will all become more painfully obvious by the end of summer. Remember, the Bush administration is still in power and could easily do even more to negatively influence McCain&#39;s appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: IamHere</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121840</link>
		<dc:creator>IamHere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121840</guid>
		<description>Actually the CNN &quot;Poll&quot; is not a poll. It&#039;s an average of three polls - one of them is the LA/Blomberg outlier with Obama 12 up that was made before 3 weeks. CNN probably playing with the polls in favour Obama - they also &#039;choose&#039; the daily poll from recent time with the highest advantage for him in the Gallup daily tracking poll - 6 points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the CNN &#8220;Poll&#8221; is not a poll. It&#39;s an average of three polls &#8211; one of them is the LA/Blomberg outlier with Obama 12 up that was made before 3 weeks. CNN probably playing with the polls in favour Obama &#8211; they also &#39;choose&#39; the daily poll from recent time with the highest advantage for him in the Gallup daily tracking poll &#8211; 6 points.</p>
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		<title>By: Saturday Links : Stop The ACLU</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-113309</link>
		<dc:creator>Saturday Links : Stop The ACLU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-113309</guid>
		<description>[...] Obama Plunges in Newsweek Poll! The Moderate Voice: Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising The Other McCain: A Democratic Landslide? Hot Air: A Commander in Chief That Fears the Military? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Obama Plunges in Newsweek Poll! The Moderate Voice: Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising The Other McCain: A Democratic Landslide? Hot Air: A Commander in Chief That Fears the Military? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: StockBoySF</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121834</link>
		<dc:creator>StockBoySF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121834</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll begin to worry about Obama&#039;s dropping poll numbers (especially among moderates) once we have a couple debates between McCain and Obama under our belts and we see compare them side by side....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ll begin to worry about Obama&#39;s dropping poll numbers (especially among moderates) once we have a couple debates between McCain and Obama under our belts and we see compare them side by side&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121833</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121833</guid>
		<description>Yeah T_Steel I have grown over the months to realize that Barak Obama really does want to be different but I cannot help but notice one thing above all else that let me know that he is wedded to the Democratic party and MUST toe the line with their wishes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The reversal on campaign financing.  The DNC saw this as the holy graille.  The ability to draw huge sums of cash to bury the GOP and THEY.........NOT OBAMA.........BUT THE DNC forced him to cave on his own principals.  So the very first decision he had to make as the official candidate was to FOLLOW DNC marching orders.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This tells me he is nothing more then a party man who must toe the line.  IF he does not.  Its a Jimmy Carter Presidency who promised congress that he would go over their heads to the people and he did and he ended up with 18 percent interest rates, 8 percent unemployment, Inflation, stagflation because congress said &quot;We&#039;ll show you whose in charge.&quot;  And they did and this is my fear for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah T_Steel I have grown over the months to realize that Barak Obama really does want to be different but I cannot help but notice one thing above all else that let me know that he is wedded to the Democratic party and MUST toe the line with their wishes.</p>
<p>The reversal on campaign financing.  The DNC saw this as the holy graille.  The ability to draw huge sums of cash to bury the GOP and THEY&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;NOT OBAMA&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;BUT THE DNC forced him to cave on his own principals.  So the very first decision he had to make as the official candidate was to FOLLOW DNC marching orders.</p>
<p>This tells me he is nothing more then a party man who must toe the line.  IF he does not.  Its a Jimmy Carter Presidency who promised congress that he would go over their heads to the people and he did and he ended up with 18 percent interest rates, 8 percent unemployment, Inflation, stagflation because congress said &#8220;We&#39;ll show you whose in charge.&#8221;  And they did and this is my fear for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121823</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121823</guid>
		<description>True, too bad the guy is underqualified to run the country compared to his dem opponent Clinton..&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well I suppose qualification and delivery are trivial matters to consider when we have more important things like the color of skin to consider..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, too bad the guy is underqualified to run the country compared to his dem opponent Clinton..</p>
<p>Well I suppose qualification and delivery are trivial matters to consider when we have more important things like the color of skin to consider..</p>
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		<title>By: T_Steel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121818</link>
		<dc:creator>T_Steel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121818</guid>
		<description>I hate to inject race into this but Senator Obama WILL stay as center as possible in his words to avoid being the liberal black guy which equals radical black militant which equals Farrkhan-lite to many.  He is AFRAID of the &quot;liberal black guy&quot; tag.  That&#039;s a death sentance.  So at the risk of losing some progressives and Democrats (yes I separate them), he&#039;s playing &quot;Centerball&quot; as much as possible.  And it&#039;s keeping him in the running.  Better a tie than 25 points behind.  Plain and simple.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, Democrats have been running to the center FOREVER.  We just have more visibility into the candidates these days.  They can&#039;t hide as much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to inject race into this but Senator Obama WILL stay as center as possible in his words to avoid being the liberal black guy which equals radical black militant which equals Farrkhan-lite to many.  He is AFRAID of the &#8220;liberal black guy&#8221; tag.  That&#39;s a death sentance.  So at the risk of losing some progressives and Democrats (yes I separate them), he&#39;s playing &#8220;Centerball&#8221; as much as possible.  And it&#39;s keeping him in the running.  Better a tie than 25 points behind.  Plain and simple.</p>
<p>Also, Democrats have been running to the center FOREVER.  We just have more visibility into the candidates these days.  They can&#39;t hide as much.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121817</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121817</guid>
		<description>One thing is certain, Obama does seem overqualified to be malleable.  I think this is why he&#039;s been so appealing to the GOP and why they helped promote him over the stalwart Clinton.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just in case he survives the new poll &quot;slips&quot; and BigMedia trashing blitz they have planned for his..um...private affairs...and political blunders...and Reverend Wright, at least they know they&#039;ll still effectively be running the place if Obama somehow still takes the oath next January.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In short, I don&#039;t think the GOP cares whether Obama or McCain are ahead in the polls.  Effectively it means the same thing in the final wash.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The GOP knew all along who represented real change and they spared no effort making sure that candidate was knocked out of the running, even with more popular votes...just like they did to Gore...another one who meant real change.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Change is not something the GOP/BigOil welcomes.  And hence the reason they (covertly) love Obama so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing is certain, Obama does seem overqualified to be malleable.  I think this is why he&#39;s been so appealing to the GOP and why they helped promote him over the stalwart Clinton.</p>
<p>Just in case he survives the new poll &#8220;slips&#8221; and BigMedia trashing blitz they have planned for his..um&#8230;private affairs&#8230;and political blunders&#8230;and Reverend Wright, at least they know they&#39;ll still effectively be running the place if Obama somehow still takes the oath next January.</p>
<p>In short, I don&#39;t think the GOP cares whether Obama or McCain are ahead in the polls.  Effectively it means the same thing in the final wash.</p>
<p>The GOP knew all along who represented real change and they spared no effort making sure that candidate was knocked out of the running, even with more popular votes&#8230;just like they did to Gore&#8230;another one who meant real change.</p>
<p>Change is not something the GOP/BigOil welcomes.  And hence the reason they (covertly) love Obama so much.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121808</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121808</guid>
		<description>&quot;they are wanting the big 3 in Michigan to burn&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Big Three certainly don&#039;t deserve a federal bailout (nor a state bailout, though that may be possible or even likely provided the Dem leadership here in Michigan is grown-up rather than robotically and parasitically assuming Washington, DC should do it, which is likely).  Incidentally, Obama as being &quot;part of the machinery&quot; makes me think of the Big Three, long operating on an obsolete model that is still in existence today (defying reality for more than twenty years), and an Obama team that might re-introduce failed old models of governance in Washington next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;they are wanting the big 3 in Michigan to burn&#8221;</p>
<p>The Big Three certainly don&#39;t deserve a federal bailout (nor a state bailout, though that may be possible or even likely provided the Dem leadership here in Michigan is grown-up rather than robotically and parasitically assuming Washington, DC should do it, which is likely).  Incidentally, Obama as being &#8220;part of the machinery&#8221; makes me think of the Big Three, long operating on an obsolete model that is still in existence today (defying reality for more than twenty years), and an Obama team that might re-introduce failed old models of governance in Washington next year.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121804</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121804</guid>
		<description>Actually, Neocon, the primary issue is what to do today, but Obama&#039;s program is questionable when it comes to the future as well.  Here I&#039;m not stating the obvious again, that only fools would believe the 2030 goal(s) would be achieved.  The bigger question here is, are the goals right and are the methods considered to reach those goals what we should be doing and what&#039;s best for this nation?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also of concern about an Obama presidency is whether he&#039;ll be a pushover for entrenched Democratic special interests (not just the powerful in Washington who we can predict will largely have their way) who will benefit at Americans&#039; expense.&lt;br&gt;I.e., underneath the slick packaging is Obama a throwback to the Sixties, even?  (Not the radicalism that ruined liberalism in this country to this day, but the often good-intentioned but destructive and failed liberalism.  &quot;Each of these babies has a different daddy. It&#039;s my job to have them and it&#039;s your job to take care of them, Mr. Mayor!&quot;  (New York at its liberal zenith prior to BANKRUPTCY from its liberalism)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Neocon, the primary issue is what to do today, but Obama&#39;s program is questionable when it comes to the future as well.  Here I&#39;m not stating the obvious again, that only fools would believe the 2030 goal(s) would be achieved.  The bigger question here is, are the goals right and are the methods considered to reach those goals what we should be doing and what&#39;s best for this nation?</p>
<p>Also of concern about an Obama presidency is whether he&#39;ll be a pushover for entrenched Democratic special interests (not just the powerful in Washington who we can predict will largely have their way) who will benefit at Americans&#39; expense.<br />I.e., underneath the slick packaging is Obama a throwback to the Sixties, even?  (Not the radicalism that ruined liberalism in this country to this day, but the often good-intentioned but destructive and failed liberalism.  &#8220;Each of these babies has a different daddy. It&#39;s my job to have them and it&#39;s your job to take care of them, Mr. Mayor!&#8221;  (New York at its liberal zenith prior to BANKRUPTCY from its liberalism)</p>
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		<title>By: Polimom</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121803</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121803</guid>
		<description>Speaking for myself only:  I&#039;m finding the constant drumbeat of &quot;help pay off Hillary&#039;s debt&quot; to be extremely off-putting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve been supporting Obama for months, and have donated to his campaign twice, but the most recent donation was a bit reluctant -- not at all because I don&#039;t support Obama still (I do),  but because I&#039;d prefer funds go to his campaign rather than hers.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So I think there&#039;s something to that analysis.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Newsweek poll from two weeks ago was bizarre, and I&#039;m not surprised it&#039;s adjusted.  However, since it does indicate a shift in the independent voters, I understand some of it.  To me, as an independent, the fiscal marriage is bothersome.  It&#039;s a reminder that, however much Obama does not &quot;toe the party line&quot;, he&#039;s part of the machinery.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, the same holds true for McCain as a Republican -- but he&#039;s not appealing to his supporters for money for somebody else&#039;s defunct campaign, as far as I know.  The reminder is not in (independent) people&#039;s faces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking for myself only:  I&#39;m finding the constant drumbeat of &#8220;help pay off Hillary&#39;s debt&#8221; to be extremely off-putting.</p>
<p>I&#39;ve been supporting Obama for months, and have donated to his campaign twice, but the most recent donation was a bit reluctant &#8212; not at all because I don&#39;t support Obama still (I do),  but because I&#39;d prefer funds go to his campaign rather than hers.  </p>
<p>So I think there&#39;s something to that analysis.</p>
<p>The Newsweek poll from two weeks ago was bizarre, and I&#39;m not surprised it&#39;s adjusted.  However, since it does indicate a shift in the independent voters, I understand some of it.  To me, as an independent, the fiscal marriage is bothersome.  It&#39;s a reminder that, however much Obama does not &#8220;toe the party line&#8221;, he&#39;s part of the machinery.</p>
<p>Of course, the same holds true for McCain as a Republican &#8212; but he&#39;s not appealing to his supporters for money for somebody else&#39;s defunct campaign, as far as I know.  The reminder is not in (independent) people&#39;s faces.</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-121796</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-121796</guid>
		<description>Barak Obama is wedded to the Democratic party who cannot find it in their hearts to do anything but blame people for stuff.  Im even getting the revelations that they are wanting the big 3 in Michigan to burn because they voted for Hillary and Not Obama.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This party is in worse shape then is the GOP and the GOP is nearly dead.  If it was not for the war in Iraq the Democrats would have nothing to talk about.  This is not Barak Obama&#039;s fault but he is wedded to this party and it is this parties inability to deal with one over ridding issue that will in my opinion cause all those independents to vote for McCain.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Solving the energy crisis.  His party wants to change light bulbs, save the owl and rely on Green in 2030.  Great.  Im all for that.  But what about TODAY.  Uh Change Two light bulbs??????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barak Obama is wedded to the Democratic party who cannot find it in their hearts to do anything but blame people for stuff.  Im even getting the revelations that they are wanting the big 3 in Michigan to burn because they voted for Hillary and Not Obama.</p>
<p>This party is in worse shape then is the GOP and the GOP is nearly dead.  If it was not for the war in Iraq the Democrats would have nothing to talk about.  This is not Barak Obama&#39;s fault but he is wedded to this party and it is this parties inability to deal with one over ridding issue that will in my opinion cause all those independents to vote for McCain.  </p>
<p>Solving the energy crisis.  His party wants to change light bulbs, save the owl and rely on Green in 2030.  Great.  Im all for that.  But what about TODAY.  Uh Change Two light bulbs??????</p>
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		<title>By: Todays Current Events in Politics &#187; Alert - Democratic Nomination</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/comment-page-1/#comment-113304</link>
		<dc:creator>Todays Current Events in Politics &#187; Alert - Democratic Nomination</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/democratic-party/21017/contradictory-polls-obama-falling-obama-rising/#comment-113304</guid>
		<description>[...]  Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising The Moderate Voice - USA It?s also the first time the candidates have been tied since Obama clinched the Democratic nomination? For most of the past month-and-a-half, Obama has led &#8230;  See all stories on this topic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Contradictory Polls: Obama Falling, Obama Rising The Moderate Voice &#8211; USA It?s also the first time the candidates have been tied since Obama clinched the Democratic nomination? For most of the past month-and-a-half, Obama has led &#8230;  See all stories on this topic [...]</p>
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