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	<title>Comments on: Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table</title>
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		<title>By: Bringing Southwest Solar Energy HOme &#124; Simple Home Solar Energy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-163007</link>
		<dc:creator>Bringing Southwest Solar Energy HOme &#124; Simple Home Solar Energy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-163007</guid>
		<description>[...] Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148576</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148576</guid>
		<description>The oil and chemical industries already produce 9 million tons of hydrogen each year, most of it from natural gas, and transport it through hundreds of miles of pipelines to fuel the space shuttle and to remove sulfur from petroleum refineries. The administration&#039;s plan lays the groundwork to expand that infrastructure -- guaranteeing that oil and gas companies will profit from any transition to hydrogen. Lauren Segal, general manager of hydrogen development for BP, puts it succinctly: &quot;We view hydrogen as a way to really grow our natural-gas business.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To protect its fuel franchise, the energy industry has moved swiftly in recent years to shape government policy toward hydrogen. (NOTICE who is shaping our policy TOWARDS hydrogen?  Oil and Gas.)In 1999, oil companies and automakers began attending the meetings of an obscure group called the National Hydrogen Association. Founded in 1989 by scientists from government labs and universities, the association was a haven for many of the small companies -- fuel-cell designers, electrolyzer makers -- that were dabbling in hydrogen power. The group promoted the use of hydrogen but was careful not to take any position on who would make the fuel or how.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All that changed once the energy industry got involved. &quot;All of a sudden Shell joined our board, and then the interest grew very quickly,&quot; says Karen Miller, the association&#039;s vice president. &quot;Our chair last year was from BP; this year our chair is from ChevronTexaco.&quot; The companies quickly began to use the association as a platform to lobby for more federal funding for research, and to push the government to emphasize fossil fuels in the national energy plan for hydrogen. Along with the big automakers, energy companies also formed a consortium called the International Hydrogen Infrastructure Group to monitor federal officials charged with developing fuel cells. &quot;Basically,&quot; says Neil Rossmeissl, a hydrogen standards expert at the Department of Energy, &quot;what they do is look over our shoulder at doe to make sure we are doing what they think is the right thing.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So Hydrogen is our future?  I think not.  You have to produce hydrogen somewhere and you have to fund the infrastructure to get hydrogen to gasoline stations.  Hydrogen as you can see is going to be produced by the oil and gasoline industry.  You just cant open a jar and collect hydrogens for your car.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Might want to rethink the saviour that is Hydrogen.  Nothing is free.  Even Hydrogen needs hydrogen to work.  Where do you get Hydrogen.   You produce it.  Whose got the monopoly on producing Hydrogen?  You got it.  Oil and gas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The oil and chemical industries already produce 9 million tons of hydrogen each year, most of it from natural gas, and transport it through hundreds of miles of pipelines to fuel the space shuttle and to remove sulfur from petroleum refineries. The administration&#39;s plan lays the groundwork to expand that infrastructure &#8212; guaranteeing that oil and gas companies will profit from any transition to hydrogen. Lauren Segal, general manager of hydrogen development for BP, puts it succinctly: &#8220;We view hydrogen as a way to really grow our natural-gas business.&#8221;</p>
<p>To protect its fuel franchise, the energy industry has moved swiftly in recent years to shape government policy toward hydrogen. (NOTICE who is shaping our policy TOWARDS hydrogen?  Oil and Gas.)In 1999, oil companies and automakers began attending the meetings of an obscure group called the National Hydrogen Association. Founded in 1989 by scientists from government labs and universities, the association was a haven for many of the small companies &#8212; fuel-cell designers, electrolyzer makers &#8212; that were dabbling in hydrogen power. The group promoted the use of hydrogen but was careful not to take any position on who would make the fuel or how.</p>
<p>All that changed once the energy industry got involved. &#8220;All of a sudden Shell joined our board, and then the interest grew very quickly,&#8221; says Karen Miller, the association&#39;s vice president. &#8220;Our chair last year was from BP; this year our chair is from ChevronTexaco.&#8221; The companies quickly began to use the association as a platform to lobby for more federal funding for research, and to push the government to emphasize fossil fuels in the national energy plan for hydrogen. Along with the big automakers, energy companies also formed a consortium called the International Hydrogen Infrastructure Group to monitor federal officials charged with developing fuel cells. &#8220;Basically,&#8221; says Neil Rossmeissl, a hydrogen standards expert at the Department of Energy, &#8220;what they do is look over our shoulder at doe to make sure we are doing what they think is the right thing.&#8221; </p>
<p>So Hydrogen is our future?  I think not.  You have to produce hydrogen somewhere and you have to fund the infrastructure to get hydrogen to gasoline stations.  Hydrogen as you can see is going to be produced by the oil and gasoline industry.  You just cant open a jar and collect hydrogens for your car.</p>
<p>Might want to rethink the saviour that is Hydrogen.  Nothing is free.  Even Hydrogen needs hydrogen to work.  Where do you get Hydrogen.   You produce it.  Whose got the monopoly on producing Hydrogen?  You got it.  Oil and gas.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148575</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148575</guid>
		<description>Silhouette , &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hydrogen is not an energy source.  It is a means of storage.  You have to use a large amount of energy to actually make the hydrogen.   Actually, nuclear power goes well with hydrogen because a nuclear power plant can supply electricity to the grind during peak load hours and then make hydrogen in the middle of the night when the load is at its lowest. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nuclear works better than solar or wind to make hydrogen since they only generate electricity during peak load hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silhouette , </p>
<p>Hydrogen is not an energy source.  It is a means of storage.  You have to use a large amount of energy to actually make the hydrogen.   Actually, nuclear power goes well with hydrogen because a nuclear power plant can supply electricity to the grind during peak load hours and then make hydrogen in the middle of the night when the load is at its lowest. </p>
<p>Nuclear works better than solar or wind to make hydrogen since they only generate electricity during peak load hours.</p>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148572</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 08:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148572</guid>
		<description>Kryon, my understanding from the CNN article is that Pickens has put in 2 billion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kryon, my understanding from the CNN article is that Pickens has put in 2 billion.</p>
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		<title>By: kryon77</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148570</link>
		<dc:creator>kryon77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148570</guid>
		<description>Pickens, in the video on his site, says that wind can supply as much as 22 percent of our energy (excluding car fuel; here, he&#039;s partial to natural gas.)  When others say stuff like that, I dismiss it; but given Pickens&#039; track record on energy issues, methinks this is worth a serious look.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;d be most convinced if Pickens put about a billion into the effort (he can afford it), and if, additionally, he doesn&#039;t ask for a government subsidy (which, as in ethanol, would be evidence than wind is not cost-effective relative to the alternatives.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pickens, in the video on his site, says that wind can supply as much as 22 percent of our energy (excluding car fuel; here, he&#39;s partial to natural gas.)  When others say stuff like that, I dismiss it; but given Pickens&#39; track record on energy issues, methinks this is worth a serious look.  </p>
<p>I&#39;d be most convinced if Pickens put about a billion into the effort (he can afford it), and if, additionally, he doesn&#39;t ask for a government subsidy (which, as in ethanol, would be evidence than wind is not cost-effective relative to the alternatives.)</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148567</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148567</guid>
		<description>So whatever, regional evaluations will give site-specific answers to each area&#039;s best safe alternative option.  That&#039;s child&#039;s play.  Then we take a fraction of the money needed to permit, pass, develop, overcome lawsuits, reapply for permits, appeal negative judgements, maybe finally obtain a permit, overcome protestors, finally erect nuclear reactor only to have it be yet another terrorist target, then more money to dispose and contain radioactive wastes, and use that fraction of money to develop regionally-appropriate safe and easy technology.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hydrogen cars are already up and running.  Hydrogen can be gotten anywhere.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here&#039;s to moving into the clean renewable and safe 21st Century and a Big Wave goodbye to grungy, sooty, dangerous 20th Century energy dinosaurs..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So whatever, regional evaluations will give site-specific answers to each area&#39;s best safe alternative option.  That&#39;s child&#39;s play.  Then we take a fraction of the money needed to permit, pass, develop, overcome lawsuits, reapply for permits, appeal negative judgements, maybe finally obtain a permit, overcome protestors, finally erect nuclear reactor only to have it be yet another terrorist target, then more money to dispose and contain radioactive wastes, and use that fraction of money to develop regionally-appropriate safe and easy technology.</p>
<p>Hydrogen cars are already up and running.  Hydrogen can be gotten anywhere.</p>
<p>Here&#39;s to moving into the clean renewable and safe 21st Century and a Big Wave goodbye to grungy, sooty, dangerous 20th Century energy dinosaurs..</p>
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		<title>By: News &#187; about : mesa power</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-113267</link>
		<dc:creator>News &#187; about : mesa power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-113267</guid>
		<description>[...] American energy production toward renewable natural resources. “The Pickens Pla(Quote from : ?Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table?)  Howard Zinn es profesor emérito de Ciencias Políticas en la Universidad de Boston. Nació en [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] American energy production toward renewable natural resources. “The Pickens Pla(Quote from : ?Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table?)  Howard Zinn es profesor emérito de Ciencias Políticas en la Universidad de Boston. Nació en [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-148565</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-148565</guid>
		<description>&quot;Well duh&quot;: is that how people say &quot;welder&quot; in New England?  I need a welduh (weldeh) in Yahmouth...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is no alternative energy miracle and no legitimate basis for agitation or anguish.  Simply examine what options we have at hand.  Pickens recognizes that the Great Plains in particular offers substantial &quot;wind resources&quot; and calls this nation &quot;the Saudi Arabia of wind.&quot;  Those who are interested to learn more about where wind energy may make sense, try looking here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html&quot;&gt;http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well duh&#8221;: is that how people say &#8220;welder&#8221; in New England?  I need a welduh (weldeh) in Yahmouth&#8230;</p>
<p>There is no alternative energy miracle and no legitimate basis for agitation or anguish.  Simply examine what options we have at hand.  Pickens recognizes that the Great Plains in particular offers substantial &#8220;wind resources&#8221; and calls this nation &#8220;the Saudi Arabia of wind.&#8221;  Those who are interested to learn more about where wind energy may make sense, try looking here.</p>
<p><a href="http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html">http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: wind corridor</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-113264</link>
		<dc:creator>wind corridor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-113264</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table &#171; Sherry&#8217;s Public Blog</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-113263</link>
		<dc:creator>Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy table &#171; Sherry&#8217;s Public Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-113263</guid>
		<description>[...] Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy&#160;table   Now this is truly interesting. Billionaire oilman T. He&#8217;s apparently putting $2 billion down on the table, so he&#8217;s serious about playing the hand&#8230; and as a result of both the project and its scale, there are very real possibilities. I&#8217;m not an expert on any of this, so I can&#8217;t speak for his numbers, but I&#8217;m intrigued. Pickens&#8217; site is here. Pickens, a Roberts County rancher and Dallas businessman, created Mesa Energy to build a 4,000-megawatt wind farm in northern Gray County and southern Roberts County. For those of you who, like me, have heard about the impact on bird populations, here&#8217;s a link to some information. For one thing, the scale of Pickens&#8217; project means real, measurable impact that can be duplicated all the way up the &#8220;wind corridor&#8221;. It&#8217;s also a big enough step that other forms of renewable energy might finally be brought into the picture, under similar circumstances. Our future. Well duh! &#8230;  Originally from: http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pickens puts money on the (renewable) energy&nbsp;table   Now this is truly interesting. Billionaire oilman T. He&#8217;s apparently putting $2 billion down on the table, so he&#8217;s serious about playing the hand&#8230; and as a result of both the project and its scale, there are very real possibilities. I&#8217;m not an expert on any of this, so I can&#8217;t speak for his numbers, but I&#8217;m intrigued. Pickens&#8217; site is here. Pickens, a Roberts County rancher and Dallas businessman, created Mesa Energy to build a 4,000-megawatt wind farm in northern Gray County and southern Roberts County. For those of you who, like me, have heard about the impact on bird populations, here&#8217;s a link to some information. For one thing, the scale of Pickens&#8217; project means real, measurable impact that can be duplicated all the way up the &#8220;wind corridor&#8221;. It&#8217;s also a big enough step that other forms of renewable energy might finally be brought into the picture, under similar circumstances. Our future. Well duh! &#8230;  Originally from: <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-.." rel="nofollow">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Polimom Says &#187; Catching the Wind</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/comment-page-1/#comment-113262</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom Says &#187; Catching the Wind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/science/energy/alternative-energy-resources/20933/pickens-puts-money-on-the-renewable-energy-table/#comment-113262</guid>
		<description>[...] I wrote more at The Moderate Voice, here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wrote more at The Moderate Voice, here. [...]</p>
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