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	<title>Comments on: Through the Long Lens of Time</title>
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		<title>By: TheNewCentrist</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-132272</link>
		<dc:creator>TheNewCentrist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yeah, I read the article and I know a bit about the Kerner Commission (TKC) as well. I bring it up every semester in my introductory seminar on American History. Both are way off point but I&#039;ll stick to TKC.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TKC posited:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;White racism is essentially responsible for the explosive mixture that has been accumulating in our cities since the end of World War II.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The report also concluded that a massive redistribution of income had to take place to remedy this problem. It also suggested the addition of 1 million government-created jobs, the institution of a higher minimum wage, significantly increasing welfare benefits, spending more money on education and housing, and so on.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For conservatives, both the diagnosis and the proposed remedies were highly dubious, but they established the liberal orthodoxy on racial issues for a generation. Conservatives argued that liberals created the situation that made the riots possible, the notion that the local, state, and federal government or some combination of the three would be able to solve the very real problems in low-income communities. For conservatives these problems were primarily located within the family and culture, rather than being due to capitalism. In essence, the conservatives placed the focus on liberal policy and by extension the rioters themselves. So what did conservatives propose to remedy the situation?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Perhaps predictably for conservatives, the primary matter at hand was guaranteeing law and order. After all, for the conservatives, law and order was the foundation of society and government. Second, eliminate the minimum wage and reduce welfare to encourage people to work. Third, eliminate rent control. Forth, open up the unions to more African Americans. Fifth, support the development of minority businesses and the development of a Black middle class. Perhaps most importantly, conservatives insisted that liberals stop giving endless promises. Stop stimulating hopes that could not be instantly fulfilled. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Conservative critiques of liberal policies were changing and developing at this time. No longer relegated to philosophical arguments they now had grounded empirical studies. Nevertheless it was easy to dismiss calls for patience, prudence and self-help as a moralistic indifference to suffering of the poor and people of color. Conservatives countered that, far from being cold or indifferent, it was they who promoting ideas and policies to actually do something about the situation. If more individuals had access to the market, it would allow greater numbers of individuals to create wealth rather. This emphasis on wealth creation, rather than redistribution is still part and parcel of conservative critiques today.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As is well known today, the main impediment is not &quot;institutional racism&quot; but the collapse of the black family. TKC avoided this completely. It would not be addressed until the Moynihan Report. Kristoff is similarly off point in his op-ed. This is the same paper (NYT) that felt it was proper to disclose the identity of CIA employee who uncovered high-value information about Al Qaeda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I read the article and I know a bit about the Kerner Commission (TKC) as well. I bring it up every semester in my introductory seminar on American History. Both are way off point but I&#39;ll stick to TKC.</p>
<p>TKC posited:</p>
<p>&#8220;White racism is essentially responsible for the explosive mixture that has been accumulating in our cities since the end of World War II.&#8221; </p>
<p>The report also concluded that a massive redistribution of income had to take place to remedy this problem. It also suggested the addition of 1 million government-created jobs, the institution of a higher minimum wage, significantly increasing welfare benefits, spending more money on education and housing, and so on.</p>
<p>For conservatives, both the diagnosis and the proposed remedies were highly dubious, but they established the liberal orthodoxy on racial issues for a generation. Conservatives argued that liberals created the situation that made the riots possible, the notion that the local, state, and federal government or some combination of the three would be able to solve the very real problems in low-income communities. For conservatives these problems were primarily located within the family and culture, rather than being due to capitalism. In essence, the conservatives placed the focus on liberal policy and by extension the rioters themselves. So what did conservatives propose to remedy the situation?</p>
<p>Perhaps predictably for conservatives, the primary matter at hand was guaranteeing law and order. After all, for the conservatives, law and order was the foundation of society and government. Second, eliminate the minimum wage and reduce welfare to encourage people to work. Third, eliminate rent control. Forth, open up the unions to more African Americans. Fifth, support the development of minority businesses and the development of a Black middle class. Perhaps most importantly, conservatives insisted that liberals stop giving endless promises. Stop stimulating hopes that could not be instantly fulfilled. </p>
<p>Conservative critiques of liberal policies were changing and developing at this time. No longer relegated to philosophical arguments they now had grounded empirical studies. Nevertheless it was easy to dismiss calls for patience, prudence and self-help as a moralistic indifference to suffering of the poor and people of color. Conservatives countered that, far from being cold or indifferent, it was they who promoting ideas and policies to actually do something about the situation. If more individuals had access to the market, it would allow greater numbers of individuals to create wealth rather. This emphasis on wealth creation, rather than redistribution is still part and parcel of conservative critiques today.</p>
<p>As is well known today, the main impediment is not &#8220;institutional racism&#8221; but the collapse of the black family. TKC avoided this completely. It would not be addressed until the Moynihan Report. Kristoff is similarly off point in his op-ed. This is the same paper (NYT) that felt it was proper to disclose the identity of CIA employee who uncovered high-value information about Al Qaeda.</p>
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		<title>By: minivan covers</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-113233</link>
		<dc:creator>minivan covers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-policy/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/#comment-113233</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-132270</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m afraid you&#039;re right, Jazz, about  Anerica&#039;s inability to face up to its dark side.  &lt;br&gt;That scares me.  Sometimes, the right time never comes, or it comes too late.&lt;br&gt;I think that is happening with the legacy of slavery and racism in America. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t be negative.  Look at the bright side.  If you talk about it, you hate America. &lt;br&gt; In silence, we condone and  allow unacknowledged guilt turn into hate. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not a good prophesy for our future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m afraid you&#39;re right, Jazz, about  Anerica&#39;s inability to face up to its dark side.  <br />That scares me.  Sometimes, the right time never comes, or it comes too late.<br />I think that is happening with the legacy of slavery and racism in America. </p>
<p>Don&#39;t be negative.  Look at the bright side.  If you talk about it, you hate America. <br /> In silence, we condone and  allow unacknowledged guilt turn into hate. </p>
<p>Not a good prophesy for our future.</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-132268</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am all for Impeaching Bush.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;IF we impeach every politician who voted for permission to go to war.  Dodd, Biden, Clinton, HARRY FREAKIN REID.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Impeach them all and Im all for it.  AFter all we elected them to oversee our government and they failed us, let us down.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How did we reward them?  Harry Reid is in charge of the senate.  Biden and Dodd are the top prospects for Obama&#039;s running mate and Hillary Clinton almost, ever so closely became the Democrats nominee for president.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And the left continues to be puzzled at how the right can support their own......Lord have mercy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am all for Impeaching Bush.  </p>
<p>IF we impeach every politician who voted for permission to go to war.  Dodd, Biden, Clinton, HARRY FREAKIN REID.</p>
<p>Impeach them all and Im all for it.  AFter all we elected them to oversee our government and they failed us, let us down.  </p>
<p>How did we reward them?  Harry Reid is in charge of the senate.  Biden and Dodd are the top prospects for Obama&#39;s running mate and Hillary Clinton almost, ever so closely became the Democrats nominee for president.</p>
<p>And the left continues to be puzzled at how the right can support their own&#8230;&#8230;Lord have mercy</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-132267</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/foreign-policy/20858/through-the-long-lens-of-time/#comment-132267</guid>
		<description>“There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes,”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;“The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And this cry.  This mantra.  This single unity of purpose by the left is exactly why the right is going after Obama with such fervor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Obama supporter whether they be left, center or right,  cannont understand why anyone does not want to consider Obama for what he says as opposed to what he is.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is he?  He is the representation of the far left who HATE BUSH. HATE the WAR. HATE the Telecoms. Hate all things moderate.  Obama represents this. True or not is irrelevant.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; It will be his tag going forth and it will ensure that the day he steps in office that those who feel castrated by the left  will want his head on a platter just as those who want Bush&#039;s head on a platter have not relented in their unmerciful attacks on Bush and company.   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So your right.  I do not believe a rational discussion can be had because those that take part in it are so polarized as to be incapable of seeing the other sides point of view and even if they are able to manage that they will not act upon it in a coherent manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes,”</p>
<p>“The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.”</p>
<p>And this cry.  This mantra.  This single unity of purpose by the left is exactly why the right is going after Obama with such fervor.</p>
<p>The Obama supporter whether they be left, center or right,  cannont understand why anyone does not want to consider Obama for what he says as opposed to what he is.  </p>
<p>What is he?  He is the representation of the far left who HATE BUSH. HATE the WAR. HATE the Telecoms. Hate all things moderate.  Obama represents this. True or not is irrelevant.</p>
<p> It will be his tag going forth and it will ensure that the day he steps in office that those who feel castrated by the left  will want his head on a platter just as those who want Bush&#39;s head on a platter have not relented in their unmerciful attacks on Bush and company.   </p>
<p>So your right.  I do not believe a rational discussion can be had because those that take part in it are so polarized as to be incapable of seeing the other sides point of view and even if they are able to manage that they will not act upon it in a coherent manner.</p>
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