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	<title>Comments on: Supermen</title>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144967</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 07:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144967</guid>
		<description>I just want to say that I never thought I&#039;d see the Rocky Horror Picture Show quoted in support of anything substantive on this blog. I stand corrected.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, I&#039;m off to do the time warp.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to say that I never thought I&#39;d see the Rocky Horror Picture Show quoted in support of anything substantive on this blog. I stand corrected.</p>
<p>Now, I&#39;m off to do the time warp.</p>
<p>Again.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144964</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144964</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see what connection taxes have to do with this conversation, but I&#039;ll answer your question with a variation on your own question: What will it be like 10-20 years from now if we sharply reduce taxes or eliminate them? I suppose we could cut loose all the old folks who aren&#039;t wealthy enough to get by without SS, we could forget about sick people, forget about public education, and all those pesky regulatory agencies, forget about the infrastructure, etc. We could even drop that absurd fantasy about private charities picking up all the slack and corporations regulating themselves via the honor system etc. We could just forget about living in a civilized country period, and we call this new bright shiny America &quot;The Jungle&quot;, cuz that&#039;s what it would be. In your own words: It won&#039;t be the happy-time stuff we see this year. &quot;Gee maybe a little taxation isn&#039;t such a terrible hardship afterall. I say that with the full realization of just how incredibly dependent the GOP is on that particular much overblown talking point. Maybe taxation is just another word for everyone pitching in for the common good eh? I believe people wouldn&#039;t complain about taxes nearly as much if they felt they were getting their money&#039;s worth, and THAT is the real issue when it comes to taxes, not the spun issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t see what connection taxes have to do with this conversation, but I&#39;ll answer your question with a variation on your own question: What will it be like 10-20 years from now if we sharply reduce taxes or eliminate them? I suppose we could cut loose all the old folks who aren&#39;t wealthy enough to get by without SS, we could forget about sick people, forget about public education, and all those pesky regulatory agencies, forget about the infrastructure, etc. We could even drop that absurd fantasy about private charities picking up all the slack and corporations regulating themselves via the honor system etc. We could just forget about living in a civilized country period, and we call this new bright shiny America &#8220;The Jungle&#8221;, cuz that&#39;s what it would be. In your own words: It won&#39;t be the happy-time stuff we see this year. &#8220;Gee maybe a little taxation isn&#39;t such a terrible hardship afterall. I say that with the full realization of just how incredibly dependent the GOP is on that particular much overblown talking point. Maybe taxation is just another word for everyone pitching in for the common good eh? I believe people wouldn&#39;t complain about taxes nearly as much if they felt they were getting their money&#39;s worth, and THAT is the real issue when it comes to taxes, not the spun issue.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144963</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144963</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ah yes, the bread and circuses angle.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Entitlements and entertainment, too!  &quot;We will tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect&quot; comes with a flair this year, American Idol style.  The Dems are modern.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What will it be like 10-20 years from now when retirement-related federal problem problems are crippling and things get ugly because taxes will have to be raised to much higher levels than ever before?  (And constraints on the programs at the same time, don&#039;t forget.)  It won&#039;t be the happy-time stuff we see this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ah yes, the bread and circuses angle.&#8221;</p>
<p>Entitlements and entertainment, too!  &#8220;We will tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect&#8221; comes with a flair this year, American Idol style.  The Dems are modern.</p>
<p>What will it be like 10-20 years from now when retirement-related federal problem problems are crippling and things get ugly because taxes will have to be raised to much higher levels than ever before?  (And constraints on the programs at the same time, don&#39;t forget.)  It won&#39;t be the happy-time stuff we see this year.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144958</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144958</guid>
		<description>Our President is not our father or mother and shouldn&#039;t be seen as such a person, even if so many people nowadays view the federal government in a very parental and provisionary way.  (Even later-day Dem rhetoric was painful.  Al Gore: &quot;We&#039;re not going to be your father or mother any more, telling you what to do.  Instead, we&#039;re going to be your grandparents, nurturing you.&quot;  Sickening!)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s something of a superhero nature to Obama&#039;s campaign this year, same as his &quot;rock star&quot; status.  Namely, it&#039;s a celebrity presence and aura seen as larger than one&#039;s own life to a lot of voters this year.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And there&#039;s still time for Obama to be given Balco growth hormone and anabolic and androgenic steroids to beef and masculinize his appearance before the debates!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our President is not our father or mother and shouldn&#39;t be seen as such a person, even if so many people nowadays view the federal government in a very parental and provisionary way.  (Even later-day Dem rhetoric was painful.  Al Gore: &#8220;We&#39;re not going to be your father or mother any more, telling you what to do.  Instead, we&#39;re going to be your grandparents, nurturing you.&#8221;  Sickening!)</p>
<p>There&#39;s something of a superhero nature to Obama&#39;s campaign this year, same as his &#8220;rock star&#8221; status.  Namely, it&#39;s a celebrity presence and aura seen as larger than one&#39;s own life to a lot of voters this year.</p>
<p>And there&#39;s still time for Obama to be given Balco growth hormone and anabolic and androgenic steroids to beef and masculinize his appearance before the debates!</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144954</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144954</guid>
		<description>Runasim said:  &quot;Thanks, Marlowecan. That&#039;s a funny picture. I bet his daughters get a kick out of it.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re welcome.  You know, I think that picture shows that Sen. Obama is a VERY different politician than the media-managed ones we tend to see.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After all, ,most publicists and media managers would have kittens at the thought of a national politician making such a pose.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama instead decides to have some fun.  How can one not like him for that?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You see his subtle sense of humor come out in numerous other cases too.  Folks say he is stiff and cold . . . but I know people like him.  It is a subdued smart humor, that is not conveyed by the media so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Runasim said:  &#8220;Thanks, Marlowecan. That&#39;s a funny picture. I bet his daughters get a kick out of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#39;re welcome.  You know, I think that picture shows that Sen. Obama is a VERY different politician than the media-managed ones we tend to see.</p>
<p>After all, ,most publicists and media managers would have kittens at the thought of a national politician making such a pose.  </p>
<p>Obama instead decides to have some fun.  How can one not like him for that?</p>
<p>You see his subtle sense of humor come out in numerous other cases too.  Folks say he is stiff and cold . . . but I know people like him.  It is a subdued smart humor, that is not conveyed by the media so well.</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144953</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144953</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Marlowecan.&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s a funny picture.  I bet his daughters get a kick out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Marlowecan.<br />That&#39;s a funny picture.  I bet his daughters get a kick out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jazz</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144949</link>
		<dc:creator>Jazz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144949</guid>
		<description>Actually, JSpencer, that&#039;s rather on track with what I was trying to convey, though perhaps not as clearly as I&#039;d hoped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, JSpencer, that&#39;s rather on track with what I was trying to convey, though perhaps not as clearly as I&#39;d hoped.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144945</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144945</guid>
		<description>Runasim said:  &quot;While every hand on board needs to do his part, every ship needs a captain. In America, we elect the captain...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That reminded me...here is a great picture of Senator Obama posing in front of a Superman statue!  &lt;br&gt;I really like this picture...I think it subverts the cliche that Obama has no sense of humor. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://obama.senate.gov/photo/001122.html&quot;&gt;http://obama.senate.gov/photo/001122.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Runasim said:  &#8220;While every hand on board needs to do his part, every ship needs a captain. In America, we elect the captain&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>That reminded me&#8230;here is a great picture of Senator Obama posing in front of a Superman statue!  <br />I really like this picture&#8230;I think it subverts the cliche that Obama has no sense of humor. </p>
<p><a href="http://obama.senate.gov/photo/001122.html">http://obama.senate.gov/photo/001122.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144944</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144944</guid>
		<description>I think you nailed it Silhouette. Reminds me of some of the lyrics of an old John Lennon song, Working Class Hero:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;A working class hero is something to be. &lt;br&gt;Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, &lt;br&gt;And you think you&#039;re so clever and classless and free&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yah, it&#039;s hard to get people to understand their own power unless their backs are against the wall, and by then it may be either too late, or they&#039;ve already become too cynical to care.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Jazz, these words of yours:  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;I fear that we have no room for super heroes in our modern world. They simply don’t fit in with the rest of the picture. We’re stuck here in our lifeboat with naught but our own wits and limited resources to carry the day.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When I read that I can&#039;t help but think of religion in America (and the world) and how so many are convinced there is a god watching everything, and that if a person plays  the game right, then &quot;god&quot; will rescue them in the end, independent of whether or not said rescuee has made any personal sacrifices to help &quot;carry the day&quot; in the real world. To me the dynamic is much the same as hoping for a superhero to bail us out of the problems we create. Better we face life with a greater appreciation of how our own &quot;wits and limited resources&quot; are most likely going to have to be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you nailed it Silhouette. Reminds me of some of the lyrics of an old John Lennon song, Working Class Hero:</p>
<p>&#8220;A working class hero is something to be. <br />Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, <br />And you think you&#39;re so clever and classless and free&#8221;</p>
<p>Yah, it&#39;s hard to get people to understand their own power unless their backs are against the wall, and by then it may be either too late, or they&#39;ve already become too cynical to care.</p>
<p>Jazz, these words of yours:  </p>
<p>&#8220;I fear that we have no room for super heroes in our modern world. They simply don’t fit in with the rest of the picture. We’re stuck here in our lifeboat with naught but our own wits and limited resources to carry the day.&#8221;</p>
<p>When I read that I can&#39;t help but think of religion in America (and the world) and how so many are convinced there is a god watching everything, and that if a person plays  the game right, then &#8220;god&#8221; will rescue them in the end, independent of whether or not said rescuee has made any personal sacrifices to help &#8220;carry the day&#8221; in the real world. To me the dynamic is much the same as hoping for a superhero to bail us out of the problems we create. Better we face life with a greater appreciation of how our own &#8220;wits and limited resources&#8221; are most likely going to have to be enough.</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144940</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144940</guid>
		<description>While every hand on board needs to do his part, every ship needs a captain.&lt;br&gt;In America, we elect the captain,  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Should the captain be a super hero, heave the ship on his shoulders and carry it to port?  NO.&lt;br&gt;Should he be hero enough to  inspire the crew to row their best?  YES.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While every hand on board needs to do his part, every ship needs a captain.<br />In America, we elect the captain,  </p>
<p>Should the captain be a super hero, heave the ship on his shoulders and carry it to port?  NO.<br />Should he be hero enough to  inspire the crew to row their best?  YES.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim_Satterfield</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144936</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_Satterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144936</guid>
		<description>Check out a series of books in a shared world called Wild Cards, created and edited by George R.R. Martin. The series consists of a mixture of novels, novellas and novelettes written by Martin and a number of other writers all set in a world in which a virus released on Earth in 1946 killed most of those infected, horribly mutilated the majority of the survivors but in a very tiny minority gave them special abilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out a series of books in a shared world called Wild Cards, created and edited by George R.R. Martin. The series consists of a mixture of novels, novellas and novelettes written by Martin and a number of other writers all set in a world in which a virus released on Earth in 1946 killed most of those infected, horribly mutilated the majority of the survivors but in a very tiny minority gave them special abilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlowecan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144935</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlowecan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144935</guid>
		<description>Jazz&#039;s post is very significant and timely, I would argue...reflecting changes in the zeitgeist.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While &quot;Hancock&quot; was shopped around for ages as a much-talked about property, the underlying idea is suggestive of our modern era.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After all...Marvel Comics killed Captain America - that American icon since WW II - only a few months ago. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Yes, he will almost certainly be resurrected...but the significance of killing him at this time goes to Jazz&#039;s main thesis).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It must be said that pop culture/comics have explored some of Jazz&#039;s points.  The brilliant &quot;Kingdom Come&quot; of a few years back applied a &quot;real world&quot; analysis to the world of supermen (Superman cynical and retired after LoisLane&#039;s murder; Batman crippled; Green Arrow an amputee; Captain Marvel insane)  looking at these heroes from an &quot;average joe&quot; POV.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-Mark-Waid/dp/1563893304&quot;&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-Mark-Waid/dp...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That said...I would disagree with Silhouette in that symbols are not always distractions from reality.  After all, Old Glory flew over a &quot;slave nation&quot; a century and a half ago...a Slave Nation with much the same Constitution that it possesses today.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Symbols are figures of aspiration.  Consider:  Both Captain America and Superman were created by young Jewish kids.  Granted Jack Kirby had a longer career than Supes&#039; creators ... but he was exploited by corporations just the same.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But Kirby believed in America...and created symbols incarnating that belief...even when he was shafted by its corporations.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My two cents...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jazz&#39;s post is very significant and timely, I would argue&#8230;reflecting changes in the zeitgeist.</p>
<p>While &#8220;Hancock&#8221; was shopped around for ages as a much-talked about property, the underlying idea is suggestive of our modern era.</p>
<p>After all&#8230;Marvel Comics killed Captain America &#8211; that American icon since WW II &#8211; only a few months ago. </p>
<p>(Yes, he will almost certainly be resurrected&#8230;but the significance of killing him at this time goes to Jazz&#39;s main thesis).</p>
<p>It must be said that pop culture/comics have explored some of Jazz&#39;s points.  The brilliant &#8220;Kingdom Come&#8221; of a few years back applied a &#8220;real world&#8221; analysis to the world of supermen (Superman cynical and retired after LoisLane&#39;s murder; Batman crippled; Green Arrow an amputee; Captain Marvel insane)  looking at these heroes from an &#8220;average joe&#8221; POV.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-Mark-Waid/dp/1563893304">http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-Mark-Waid/dp&#8230;</a></p>
<p>That said&#8230;I would disagree with Silhouette in that symbols are not always distractions from reality.  After all, Old Glory flew over a &#8220;slave nation&#8221; a century and a half ago&#8230;a Slave Nation with much the same Constitution that it possesses today.</p>
<p>Symbols are figures of aspiration.  Consider:  Both Captain America and Superman were created by young Jewish kids.  Granted Jack Kirby had a longer career than Supes&#39; creators &#8230; but he was exploited by corporations just the same.</p>
<p>But Kirby believed in America&#8230;and created symbols incarnating that belief&#8230;even when he was shafted by its corporations.  </p>
<p>My two cents&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jazz</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144932</link>
		<dc:creator>Jazz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144932</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, the bread and circuses angle.  I probably should have worked that into the essay somewhere. My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, the bread and circuses angle.  I probably should have worked that into the essay somewhere. My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: best horror movies</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-113223</link>
		<dc:creator>best horror movies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-113223</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/20847/supermen/comment-page-1/#comment-144929</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/entertainment/movies/20847/supermen/#comment-144929</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t just the modern world that resorted to media distractions to keep us from having time to factually and practically solve our problems in a non-superhuman way.   In ancient Rome when times were tough, to keep the citizens from revolting, extra animals and slaves were sacraficed in the Colloseum in ever-increasingly sophisitcated spectacles to keep them from noticing food shortages and various problems, including tyranny from their leaders.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look over here where the glove is pointing so that you won&#039;t know just off camera that your candidate is failing, that you could nominate another one that would win.  Look at the lion jumping through the flaming hoop or the man stopping the train with one hand so that you won&#039;t notice BigOil trying to drill in your Wilderness Areas.  Watch the shiny wand to keep from pressuring Congress to force BigOil to implement site-specific safe and renewable alternative energy generation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As long as we stay dumb, distracted and occupied we won&#039;t notice we have the superpower at our own fingertips to exact real and potent change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#39;t just the modern world that resorted to media distractions to keep us from having time to factually and practically solve our problems in a non-superhuman way.   In ancient Rome when times were tough, to keep the citizens from revolting, extra animals and slaves were sacraficed in the Colloseum in ever-increasingly sophisitcated spectacles to keep them from noticing food shortages and various problems, including tyranny from their leaders.</p>
<p>Look over here where the glove is pointing so that you won&#39;t know just off camera that your candidate is failing, that you could nominate another one that would win.  Look at the lion jumping through the flaming hoop or the man stopping the train with one hand so that you won&#39;t notice BigOil trying to drill in your Wilderness Areas.  Watch the shiny wand to keep from pressuring Congress to force BigOil to implement site-specific safe and renewable alternative energy generation.</p>
<p>As long as we stay dumb, distracted and occupied we won&#39;t notice we have the superpower at our own fingertips to exact real and potent change.</p>
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