It's amazing that those who rely on the Bible never find anything in it to contradict their own opinions.

It's amazing that those who rely on the Bible never find anything in it to contradict their own opinions.

Whoever the real Jesus was, He apparently did have experience with the death penalty. The gospels don't quote Him as saying all these scum being crucified beside Him deserved what they got. The gospels portray Him asking forgiveness for everyone concerned, because they know not what they do. Do you understand pedophiles well enough to say they don't fit such mercy?

When my daughters were young, it occurred to me that I couldn't imagine how a man could be attracted to them sexually, especially not as a preference. I can't quite appreciate what women and gay men see in men, either, but at least there I can picture what that must be like. I can't with pedophilia. Is it possible that pedophiles find the attraction just as strange? From what I understand, they do. Many see it as quite alien and shameful. Yet that's not enough to control the behavior.

How much different is pedophilia from my trying to control my anger rather than have my natural response hurt someone or some else trying to control some substance abuse? I don't know. As you say, the consequences of child rape can be worse than anything my nature would do to anyone. Does that just make me lucky, not good?

No one in the gospels suggests getting rid of the death penalty. It was a fact of life in ancient times. Today it is not. Lawyers point out that trials and appeals are much more complicated in a death penalty case than without that on the table. It's not entirely random who gets the death penalty, but it's not entirely consistent either. There is no good evidence it is a deterrent. Why isn't life without parole enough?

What the issue boils down to is whether some application of the death penalty is justice or mere vengeance. Some would say even the latter is acceptable, only why people see a humane death as more vengeful than life without parole is beyond me. How will such deaths fix anything?

Anyone can consult their own higher power on this. Mine has me believing the death penalty is always wrong. We never know enough about the perpetrator to know what we're doing in killing someone. Others can decide for themselves, but I wish they would use more than a single Bible verse or single secular rationale to do that. Should all human behavior be judged according to its effects on its victims, even just anger and falseness? There may be a whole lot of people in the afterlife surprised to be on the wrong side of Matthew 18:6.

Whoever the real Jesus was, He apparently did have experience with the death penalty. The gospels don't quote Him as saying all these scum being crucified beside Him deserved what they got. The gospels portray Him asking forgiveness for everyone concerned, because they know not what they do. Do you understand pedophiles well enough to say they don't fit such mercy?

When my daughters were young, it occurred to me that I couldn't imagine how a man could be attracted to them sexually, especially not as a preference. I can't quite appreciate what women and gay men see in men, either, but at least there I can picture what that must be like. I can't with pedophilia. Is it possible that pedophiles find the attraction just as strange? From what I understand, they do. Many see it as quite alien and shameful. Yet that's not enough to control the behavior.

How much different is pedophilia from my trying to control my anger rather than have my natural response hurt someone or some else trying to control some substance abuse? I don't know. As you say, the consequences of child rape can be worse than anything my nature would do to anyone. Does that just make me lucky, not good?

No one in the gospels suggests getting rid of the death penalty. It was a fact of life in ancient times. Today it is not. Lawyers point out that trials and appeals are much more complicated in a death penalty case than without that on the table. It's not entirely random who gets the death penalty, but it's not entirely consistent either. There is no good evidence it is a deterrent. Why isn't life without parole enough?

What the issue boils down to is whether some application of the death penalty is justice or mere vengeance. Some would say even the latter is acceptable, only why people see a humane death as more vengeful than life without parole is beyond me. How will such deaths fix anything?

Anyone can consult their own higher power on this. Mine has me believing the death penalty is always wrong. We never know enough about the perpetrator to know what we're doing in killing someone. Others can decide for themselves, but I wish they would use more than a single Bible verse or single secular rationale to do that. Should all human behavior be judged according to its effects on its victims, even just anger and falseness? There may be a whole lot of people in the afterlife surprised to be on the wrong side of Matthew 18:6.

No personal attacks or name calling on others with differing opinions… Thoughtful replies… Good Grief Charlie Brown… a truly Moderate Voice!

Congratulations to all.

Now let's see if we can carry this over to discussions about of our candidates of choice… RIGHT!

No personal attacks or name calling on others with differing opinions… Thoughtful replies… Good Grief Charlie Brown… a truly Moderate Voice!

Congratulations to all.

Now let's see if we can carry this over to discussions about of our candidates of choice… RIGHT!

I can imagine myself, a person who has never been in a physical fight, chaining a child abuser to a radiator and pummeling him to death with the nearest blunt object. – in a fit or rage.
That's why I shouldn't be trusted to make that decision in any one particualr case, where the need to prevent and protect is not immediate. That pent up rage is there, ready to be evoked by asssociation, if not immediate circumstances.

Being a 'justifeid killer' can be nothing better than a killer-in-cold-blood, when you strip away the rhetoric.

Prevention is a hard thing to discern. Statistics are used both for and against capital punishment as a whole. What the proponents never,ever take into account, however, are abysmal flaws in the justice system, itself. As with other crimes, those actaully 'justifiably ' killed would be those with inadequate legal representation and/or those of an inately 'suspicious' class:: minorities, the poor, the social outcasts. Others would have lawyers adept at finding legal loopholes and at diluting or negating the strength of evidence.

Outcomes matter as much as the premises.

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I can imagine myself, a person who has never been in a physical fight, chaining a child abuser to a radiator and pummeling him to death with the nearest blunt object. – in a fit or rage.
That's why I shouldn't be trusted to make that decision in any one particualr case, where the need to prevent and protect is not immediate. That pent up rage is there, ready to be evoked by asssociation, if not immediate circumstances.

Being a 'justifeid killer' can be nothing better than a killer-in-cold-blood, when you strip away the rhetoric.

Prevention is a hard thing to discern. Statistics are used both for and against capital punishment as a whole. What the proponents never,ever take into account, however, are abysmal flaws in the justice system, itself. As with other crimes, those actaully 'justifiably ' killed would be those with inadequate legal representation and/or those of an inately 'suspicious' class:: minorities, the poor, the social outcasts. Others would have lawyers adept at finding legal loopholes and at diluting or negating the strength of evidence.

Outcomes matter as much as the premises.

.

“Potential” just stinks in this situation (no disrespect intended). It's extremely difficult for me to wrap my head around potentially saving the life of a victim by not threatening to kill the criminal if caught. That just rankles me. And the word “revenge”, *SIGH*…. I'll tell ya this much, you all got me thinking about this more but I still feel zero compassion for the child rapist thus if we dropped a 5000 lb iron block on them I wouldn't blink.

And I agree with pacatrue's comments below:

However, in the long run, with children at stake, perhaps prevention should be the most important item. Adults have a better chance to deal with being (justified) killers than children can deal with having been raped.

And Jazz, this is probably one of the few positions that I'm extremely pig-headed about. So bring the firefight!

“Potential” just stinks in this situation (no disrespect intended). It's extremely difficult for me to wrap my head around potentially saving the life of a victim by not threatening to kill the criminal if caught. That just rankles me. And the word “revenge”, *SIGH*…. I'll tell ya this much, you all got me thinking about this more but I still feel zero compassion for the child rapist thus if we dropped a 5000 lb iron block on them I wouldn't blink.

And I agree with pacatrue's comments below:

However, in the long run, with children at stake, perhaps prevention should be the most important item. Adults have a better chance to deal with being (justified) killers than children can deal with having been raped.

And Jazz, this is probably one of the few positions that I'm extremely pig-headed about. So bring the firefight!

At the end of the day, to be haunted by a nagging fear that somewhere there lurks a criminal who deserves death but who is, instead, suffering a lifetime of imprisonment doesn't strike me as especially reasonable.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives...

At the end of the day, to be haunted by a nagging fear that somewhere there lurks a criminal who deserves death but who is, instead, suffering a lifetime of imprisonment doesn't strike me as especially reasonable.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives...

That said, few of us would hesitate to kill (would we?) if we caught someone in the act and that's how we could stop it. What is the difference between execution in defense of a child in an immediate case and retributive justice?

I can think of two things: First, in the immediate, almost self-defense type case, you can stop the crime while it's occurring. In the retributive one, the crime has already happened. However, perhaps the death penalty for child rape could be successfully preventitive? However, the second difference is the habitual and planned nature of retributive justice compared to immediate defense. When execution is common, it becomes part of who we are. This seems less likely in the immediate defense of child case.

However, in the long run, with children at stake, perhaps prevention should be the most important item. Adults have a better chance to deal with being (justified) killers than children can deal with having been raped.

That said, few of us would hesitate to kill (would we?) if we caught someone in the act and that's how we could stop it. What is the difference between execution in defense of a child in an immediate case and retributive justice?

I can think of two things: First, in the immediate, almost self-defense type case, you can stop the crime while it's occurring. In the retributive one, the crime has already happened. However, perhaps the death penalty for child rape could be successfully preventitive? However, the second difference is the habitual and planned nature of retributive justice compared to immediate defense. When execution is common, it becomes part of who we are. This seems less likely in the immediate defense of child case.

However, in the long run, with children at stake, perhaps prevention should be the most important item. Adults have a better chance to deal with being (justified) killers than children can deal with having been raped.

Of course, I agreed with your original post, but I do understand the concerns registered by many of your readers.

Of course, I agreed with your original post, but I do understand the concerns registered by many of your readers.

The bottom line isn't how bad the crime or the criminal is,but how low we are willing to sink when reacting to abomination.
It's about who we are, not who the criminal is.

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The bottom line isn't how bad the crime or the criminal is,but how low we are willing to sink when reacting to abomination.
It's about who we are, not who the criminal is.

.