Comments on: The Close of the Conservative Era (for now) http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:08:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: franklin d roosevelt http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-113055 franklin d roosevelt Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:32:07 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-113055 [...] that slimed him and ran his campaign off the rails. Eight years later, he is now makes it to thhttp://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-no...St. Lawrence - Roosevelt Power Project Celebrates 50th Birthday WWNY - WNYF Watertown For the past [...] [...] that slimed him and ran his campaign off the rails. Eight years later, he is now makes it to thhttp://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-no…St. Lawrence – Roosevelt Power Project Celebrates 50th Birthday WWNY – WNYF Watertown For the past [...]

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-142962 kritt11 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:03:46 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-142962 timr is correct. <br><br>The middle class is crumbling as deregulation and tax breaks help the rich and the ultra-rich, who quite naturally oppose any tax increases. Grover Norquist's group forces serious GOP candidates to sign the No New Taxes pledge, while Americans see our infrastructure crumbling around us, and the collapse of entire industries. Republicans, who once freed the slaves and supported civil rights, now are seen as largely a white Christian party.<br><br>While I have my disagreements with BOTH political parties, it is obvious that many conservatives have allowed their lust for power to overcome their duty to the Constitution and to the American people who they purport to serve. timr is correct.

The middle class is crumbling as deregulation and tax breaks help the rich and the ultra-rich, who quite naturally oppose any tax increases. Grover Norquist's group forces serious GOP candidates to sign the No New Taxes pledge, while Americans see our infrastructure crumbling around us, and the collapse of entire industries. Republicans, who once freed the slaves and supported civil rights, now are seen as largely a white Christian party.

While I have my disagreements with BOTH political parties, it is obvious that many conservatives have allowed their lust for power to overcome their duty to the Constitution and to the American people who they purport to serve.

]]> By: timr http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-142961 timr Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:49:51 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-142961 But there is no Regan or even a Goldwater on the horizon. The main problem with the republician party, a self wounding, is that they have gone over to putting the party before the country. Power and ideology put before the needs of the country are what needs badly to be fixed. Also, people as a whole don't like to have govt in their bedrooms and the evangelicals have driven the party way to far in that direction. Social issues, culture war, over the bedrock issues that people want from govt. The last republician president that I both respected(and voted twice for) was GHWB. He was a great president, yet the conservatives ran him out of town on a rail when he realized that in order to pay for what the country wanted to have done he raised taxes, which was and remains anathema to the hard right conservatives, but was necessary. We can see what happened when both a republician president and republician congress came together. Financial disaster. Earmarks rose to hights never before seen, fighting 2 wars on a credit card, Katrina and the perception that Bush fiddled while the country drowned. Incompetent party hacks put in charge of the reins of govt. Political power put at the pinnacle instead of actually making govt work. Congress loath to fulfill its role as a force to put the breaks on unfettered executive branch power. A Machiavellian figure behind the figure in power-Rove-who, it turns out, is just one more party hack who tried to play well above his game(he was lucky to win in 2000, and played all out filthy political tricks to win in 2004, but he got his comeuppance in 2006 when he claimed to have "the math" that proved he would win) and lost. I think that we can safely asume that Rove will prove to be the biggest architect in the republician parties fall from grace. His totally amoral way of operating showed people the dirty underside of politics, and placed him as the figure head of what is wrong with politics, and especially what is wrong with the republician party today. Tell outrageous lies about your opponent, and use every dirty trick to defeat him, and if you can't defeat him, then twist the DoJ into charging him with crimes-but only in the MSM, never bring charges. Make sure that the dem voters can't vote by purging the lists, making sure that polling places are set up in places that are hard to get. The list goes on and on. Attack the messanger when all that person did was tell the truth, because you can not refute the message. Stall, stonewall, refuse to answer or cooperate with congress. In all my years of watching politics-starting in 1960-I have never seen an administration and party act so shamefully. During Watergate, many peope put their careers on the line to DO THE RIGHT THING. It was members of the republiian party who told Nixon that even they had had enough. Today, congress is full of hacks, people who would willingly-and in point of fact did until 2006-assist the Bush administration in breaking the law, and when these crimes came to light, as they always do, most republician members of congress did their best to derail any and all investigations into the crimes committed. I voted for McCain in the 2000 Mi. primary, and was ashamed at what bush and rove did in South Carolina. So ashamed that I voted for Gore, and watched while the MSM and the republician party slimed him, because GWB had no idea of where to take the country, no vision. All that the republician party wanted and desired was power. They got it. And 8 years later the republician party is going to be pretty much destroyed in the nov election. Democrats will be elected where only republicians have reigned for decades. And its their own damn fault. That is what hurts the most. I will not vote for McCain this time around. His flips and flops on a daily basis trying to please every faction of the party and his campaign, manned almost exclusively by lobbyists are the reasons I will not vote for him. This time, the second time since Ford pardoned Nixon, I will vote for a Dem. And I think that he will be elected, and that he will bring the country-abet kicking and screaming-together. But there is no Regan or even a Goldwater on the horizon. The main problem with the republician party, a self wounding, is that they have gone over to putting the party before the country. Power and ideology put before the needs of the country are what needs badly to be fixed. Also, people as a whole don't like to have govt in their bedrooms and the evangelicals have driven the party way to far in that direction. Social issues, culture war, over the bedrock issues that people want from govt. The last republician president that I both respected(and voted twice for) was GHWB. He was a great president, yet the conservatives ran him out of town on a rail when he realized that in order to pay for what the country wanted to have done he raised taxes, which was and remains anathema to the hard right conservatives, but was necessary. We can see what happened when both a republician president and republician congress came together. Financial disaster. Earmarks rose to hights never before seen, fighting 2 wars on a credit card, Katrina and the perception that Bush fiddled while the country drowned. Incompetent party hacks put in charge of the reins of govt. Political power put at the pinnacle instead of actually making govt work. Congress loath to fulfill its role as a force to put the breaks on unfettered executive branch power. A Machiavellian figure behind the figure in power-Rove-who, it turns out, is just one more party hack who tried to play well above his game(he was lucky to win in 2000, and played all out filthy political tricks to win in 2004, but he got his comeuppance in 2006 when he claimed to have “the math” that proved he would win) and lost. I think that we can safely asume that Rove will prove to be the biggest architect in the republician parties fall from grace. His totally amoral way of operating showed people the dirty underside of politics, and placed him as the figure head of what is wrong with politics, and especially what is wrong with the republician party today. Tell outrageous lies about your opponent, and use every dirty trick to defeat him, and if you can't defeat him, then twist the DoJ into charging him with crimes-but only in the MSM, never bring charges. Make sure that the dem voters can't vote by purging the lists, making sure that polling places are set up in places that are hard to get. The list goes on and on. Attack the messanger when all that person did was tell the truth, because you can not refute the message. Stall, stonewall, refuse to answer or cooperate with congress. In all my years of watching politics-starting in 1960-I have never seen an administration and party act so shamefully. During Watergate, many peope put their careers on the line to DO THE RIGHT THING. It was members of the republiian party who told Nixon that even they had had enough. Today, congress is full of hacks, people who would willingly-and in point of fact did until 2006-assist the Bush administration in breaking the law, and when these crimes came to light, as they always do, most republician members of congress did their best to derail any and all investigations into the crimes committed. I voted for McCain in the 2000 Mi. primary, and was ashamed at what bush and rove did in South Carolina. So ashamed that I voted for Gore, and watched while the MSM and the republician party slimed him, because GWB had no idea of where to take the country, no vision. All that the republician party wanted and desired was power. They got it. And 8 years later the republician party is going to be pretty much destroyed in the nov election. Democrats will be elected where only republicians have reigned for decades. And its their own damn fault. That is what hurts the most. I will not vote for McCain this time around. His flips and flops on a daily basis trying to please every faction of the party and his campaign, manned almost exclusively by lobbyists are the reasons I will not vote for him. This time, the second time since Ford pardoned Nixon, I will vote for a Dem. And I think that he will be elected, and that he will bring the country-abet kicking and screaming-together.

]]> By: casualobserver http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-142960 casualobserver Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:37:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-142960 Indeed, a good number of "conservatives" have become both too destructively fickle and more sadly, stoned on the same opiate that liberals toke on......government ought to drive the social construct.<br><br>The next four years may not be exactly the type of "socialism" they were hoping for, but I suspect they will get to experience it in spades.<br><br>My best advice to true libertarian conservatives.....shelter as much of your earnings as you can into a non-qualified deferred comp arrangement to weather the Keynesian storm the clueless D's will be seeding. Once the hapless herd of non-libertarians have ample proof that confiscatory tax policy and inflation inducing spending won't produce any permanent economic recovery either, the Republican Party might find a Goldwater or Reagan to run in 2012. Indeed, a good number of “conservatives” have become both too destructively fickle and more sadly, stoned on the same opiate that liberals toke on……government ought to drive the social construct.

The next four years may not be exactly the type of “socialism” they were hoping for, but I suspect they will get to experience it in spades.

My best advice to true libertarian conservatives…..shelter as much of your earnings as you can into a non-qualified deferred comp arrangement to weather the Keynesian storm the clueless D's will be seeding. Once the hapless herd of non-libertarians have ample proof that confiscatory tax policy and inflation inducing spending won't produce any permanent economic recovery either, the Republican Party might find a Goldwater or Reagan to run in 2012.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-142959 superdestroyer Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:12:19 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-142959 There is no return of the conservative movement. Changing demographics in the U..S. will ensure that the Republicans or any conservative party makes a comeback. <br><br>Also, LIchtman is incorrect in aruging that McCain is a conservative. His presidential platform of open borders, increased regulation, increased spending, and government regulation of speech demonstrates that today's conservative has moved far to the left. <br><br>The real question for the future is how the elite white progressives (academics, NGO's, and political staffers) are going to reconcile their beliefs with blacks, hispanics, and immigrants.. Senator Obama has been working very hard to discuss what the U.S. will be like as the white middle class fads away. There is no return of the conservative movement. Changing demographics in the U..S. will ensure that the Republicans or any conservative party makes a comeback.

Also, LIchtman is incorrect in aruging that McCain is a conservative. His presidential platform of open borders, increased regulation, increased spending, and government regulation of speech demonstrates that today's conservative has moved far to the left.

The real question for the future is how the elite white progressives (academics, NGO's, and political staffers) are going to reconcile their beliefs with blacks, hispanics, and immigrants.. Senator Obama has been working very hard to discuss what the U.S. will be like as the white middle class fads away.

]]> By: defeat men http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-113038 defeat men Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:56:26 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-113038 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: BBQ http://themoderatevoice.com/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/comment-page-1/#comment-142958 BBQ Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:09:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/20610/the-close-of-the-conservative-era-for-now/#comment-142958 That's a pretty good analysis. I just wish that this time during reforming that Moderates get their act together more instead of letting the far right wing take control of the party again. That's a pretty good analysis. I just wish that this time during reforming that Moderates get their act together more instead of letting the far right wing take control of the party again.

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