And GreenDreams, I understand, I think the patience we have all had for years of customer service speaking a language other than English, trying to communicate over simple things and having to spend hours, promises given and not kept…. It sort of weaves itself into some bigger promises not kept, some ever growing bungling burglarizing bureacracies. And other stuff that just doesnt work as good as two tins cans and a string.

Okay, kidding on that last. But, I think we live in the same mind set about some of these matters. Neocon has done a great and generous job explaining into the deeper layers. That helps, I think. It's actually hopeful in some ways. Hopefully 'effective' in the big corps living up to their promises, is what will win my heart.

ps I dont think you sound like a republican or a democrat or other. I think you sound common sensiical. God knows we need more people who can actually think instead of just carrying dark space in the cortex. So stay Green Dreams, close by. I always learn from you too.

and your point neocon about obsolecence being a drag factor on multi-billion dollar development in situ, is well taken. I see your point.

Just one last comment GreenDreams, I have never seen a utility utilized/needed by the masses thrive when it becomes smaller or slower, whether airlines, trains, PSco, phone cos, or other. And you're right sometimes the big guys knock the very efficient little guys over. We were on Rural Electrification for years, and they did a GOOD job; my husband worked for RE for a time, and the bosses locally were good people. Mingling with us unwashed and all. But when Cable, first Jones, and then another and finally bought up by Comcast… the layers of phone call waiting alone, well you could practically celebrate your next birthday before they'd answer. And drop the call in the middle of it all so you'd have to start over again. Not to mention where I live in a high bold weather place, the outage of my dsl pretty consistently. Lol. What a world we live in.

Agreed too, people want more ability to moviecate, filmjumble, music lollie around, rather than less. Me? I'd just like to learn WordPress so I dont accidentaly keep erasing about one in ten of my articles for TMV. I work really hard at them and it takes me a long time to write. Some days, I think i need a minder. lol

dr.e

And GreenDreams, I understand, I think the patience we have all had for years of customer service speaking a language other than English, trying to communicate over simple things and having to spend hours, promises given and not kept…. It sort of weaves itself into some bigger promises not kept, some ever growing bungling burglarizing bureacracies. And other stuff that just doesnt work as good as two tins cans and a string.

Okay, kidding on that last. But, I think we live in the same mind set about some of these matters. Neocon has done a great and generous job explaining into the deeper layers. That helps, I think. It's actually hopeful in some ways. Hopefully 'effective' in the big corps living up to their promises, is what will win my heart.

ps I dont think you sound like a republican or a democrat or other. I think you sound common sensiical. God knows we need more people who can actually think instead of just carrying dark space in the cortex. So stay Green Dreams, close by. I always learn from you too.

and your point neocon about obsolecence being a drag factor on multi-billion dollar development in situ, is well taken. I see your point.

Just one last comment GreenDreams, I have never seen a utility utilized/needed by the masses thrive when it becomes smaller or slower, whether airlines, trains, PSco, phone cos, or other. And you're right sometimes the big guys knock the very efficient little guys over. We were on Rural Electrification for years, and they did a GOOD job; my husband worked for RE for a time, and the bosses locally were good people. Mingling with us unwashed and all. But when Cable, first Jones, and then another and finally bought up by Comcast… the layers of phone call waiting alone, well you could practically celebrate your next birthday before they'd answer. And drop the call in the middle of it all so you'd have to start over again. Not to mention where I live in a high bold weather place, the outage of my dsl pretty consistently. Lol. What a world we live in.

Agreed too, people want more ability to moviecate, filmjumble, music lollie around, rather than less. Me? I'd just like to learn WordPress so I dont accidentaly keep erasing about one in ten of my articles for TMV. I work really hard at them and it takes me a long time to write. Some days, I think i need a minder. lol

dr.e

And GreenDreams, I understand, I think the patience we have all had for years of customer service speaking a language other than English, trying to communicate over simple things and having to spend hours, promises given and not kept…. It sort of weaves itself into some bigger promises not kept, some ever growing bungling burglarizing bureacracies. And other stuff that just doesnt work as good as two tins cans and a string.

Okay, kidding on that last. But, I think we live in the same mind set about some of these matters. Neocon has done a great and generous job explaining into the deeper layers. That helps, I think. It's actually hopeful in some ways. Hopefully 'effective' in the big corps living up to their promises, is what will win my heart.

ps I dont think you sound like a republican or a democrat or other. I think you sound common sensiical. God knows we need more people who can actually think instead of just carrying dark space in the cortex. So stay Green Dreams, close by. I always learn from you too.

and your point neocon about obsolecence being a drag factor on multi-billion dollar development in situ, is well taken. I see your point.

Just one last comment GreenDreams, I have never seen a utility utilized/needed by the masses thrive when it becomes smaller or slower, whether airlines, trains, PSco, phone cos, or other. And you're right sometimes the big guys knock the very efficient little guys over. We were on Rural Electrification for years, and they did a GOOD job; my husband worked for RE for a time, and the bosses locally were good people. Mingling with us unwashed and all. But when Cable, first Jones, and then another and finally bought up by Comcast… the layers of phone call waiting alone, well you could practically celebrate your next birthday before they'd answer. And drop the call in the middle of it all so you'd have to start over again. Not to mention where I live in a high bold weather place, the outage of my dsl pretty consistently. Lol. What a world we live in.

Agreed too, people want more ability to moviecate, filmjumble, music lollie around, rather than less. Me? I'd just like to learn WordPress so I dont accidentaly keep erasing about one in ten of my articles for TMV. I work really hard at them and it takes me a long time to write. Some days, I think i need a minder. lol

dr.e

The telecom act of 1994 gave 6 companies a virtual monopoly on handling our progress into broadband. As pointed out above, using subscriber payments, they laid so much fiber optic cable that much of it is still dark. We subscribers did our part for the future. We financed the infrastructure that is still unused.

It seems to me that in the pursuit of higher quarterly profits, they now want to throttle some of the traffic that Neocon characterizes as “wasted”. But a huge segment of their subscriber base wants exactly those “wasted” or “bandwidth hogging” applications. Current ISPs will either deliver or admit they can't.

Things are changing fast; computers are faster and have more memory. “Web 2.0″ is here, though vaguely defined, and includes social networking, blogs, YouTube, Facebook, Digg, Flickr, etc. “Web 3.0″ is -also poorly defined- taking us away from memory hogging applications on our computers to online programs running centrally. A perfect example is Google Docs, on which you can do word processing, spreadsheets and presentations (Powerpoint) online without having these applications running on your computer or even owning the applications. You don't need to buy a program to do any of these tasks any more. This is the trend of the future, and has led some to propose that Vista may be Microsoft's last operating system. There are now minimal computers sometimes called thin clients, that don't bother with big resources like lots of memory, but rather, depend on “cloud computing” meaning that your data and your application is in the “cloud”, that is, online.

There are already computers available to take advantage of this trend, costing $199 for a desktop and $299 for a laptop. This can bring our computer using population up to a high % of the general population. Every student can have an inexpensive computer, but the applications depend on having quick access to the “cloud”. Neocon's right that it's way easier to transmit the image of the document you're editing if the bandwidth isn't being gobbled up by people uploading and downloading big images or video. But that's not the reality today. People DO want to share images, video and files, including music. And it's not just teenagers. Applications you use update regularly with files that are often the size of an entire album of MP3s, or even more. Apple no longer packages iTunes with iPods. They rely on their customers to download a 70 mB application and install it (roughly 15-20 songs in MP3 terms or a similar number of YouTube videos). When it needs updating, it's 15-40 mB depending on how much they've changed. The same applies to “security patches” from Microsoft.

Long story short, EVERYONE wants to move ever more data. The ISPs need to keep up, not lobby government to slow the progress of computing for the sake of their profit. If the federal government stays out of it (now I sound like a republican), the market will advance those companies who offer more to their customers at a better price, as it should. But the monopoly situation makes it imperative that these companies not be allowed to slow progress as electric utilities tried to. It's in all our interests to have a populace well wired for the future, just as it was critical to have universal access to electricity, even if some customers were going to be less profitable than others. In the case of utilities, the government said “if you can't serve these customers, we will do it ourselves.” The specter of government nonprofit competition scared the utilities into rethinking their strategy. We're in the same situation now. Some municipalities tried to open up access to all their citizens. The ISPs bribed Congress to make it illegal rather than competing honestly. In the end, trying to hold back progress will fail, and those companies that “get it” will surpass those that don't.

The telecom act of 1994 gave 6 companies a virtual monopoly on handling our progress into broadband. As pointed out above, using subscriber payments, they laid so much fiber optic cable that much of it is still dark. We subscribers did our part for the future. We financed the infrastructure that is still unused.

It seems to me that in the pursuit of higher quarterly profits, they now want to throttle some of the traffic that Neocon characterizes as “wasted”. But a huge segment of their subscriber base wants exactly those “wasted” or “bandwidth hogging” applications. Current ISPs will either deliver or admit they can't.

Things are changing fast; computers are faster and have more memory. “Web 2.0″ is here, though vaguely defined, and includes social networking, blogs, YouTube, Facebook, Digg, Flickr, etc. “Web 3.0″ is -also poorly defined- taking us away from memory hogging applications on our computers to online programs running centrally. A perfect example is Google Docs, on which you can do word processing, spreadsheets and presentations (Powerpoint) online without having these applications running on your computer or even owning the applications. You don't need to buy a program to do any of these tasks any more. This is the trend of the future, and has led some to propose that Vista may be Microsoft's last operating system. There are now minimal computers sometimes called thin clients, that don't bother with big resources like lots of memory, but rather, depend on “cloud computing” meaning that your data and your application is in the “cloud”, that is, online.

There are already computers available to take advantage of this trend, costing $199 for a desktop and $299 for a laptop. This can bring our computer using population up to a high % of the general population. Every student can have an inexpensive computer, but the applications depend on having quick access to the “cloud”. Neocon's right that it's way easier to transmit the image of the document you're editing if the bandwidth isn't being gobbled up by people uploading and downloading big images or video. But that's not the reality today. People DO want to share images, video and files, including music. And it's not just teenagers. Applications you use update regularly with files that are often the size of an entire album of MP3s, or even more. Apple no longer packages iTunes with iPods. They rely on their customers to download a 70 mB application and install it (roughly 15-20 songs in MP3 terms or a similar number of YouTube videos). When it needs updating, it's 15-40 mB depending on how much they've changed. The same applies to “security patches” from Microsoft.

Long story short, EVERYONE wants to move ever more data. The ISPs need to keep up, not lobby government to slow the progress of computing for the sake of their profit. If the federal government stays out of it (now I sound like a republican), the market will advance those companies who offer more to their customers at a better price, as it should. But the monopoly situation makes it imperative that these companies not be allowed to slow progress as electric utilities tried to. It's in all our interests to have a populace well wired for the future, just as it was critical to have universal access to electricity, even if some customers were going to be less profitable than others. In the case of utilities, the government said “if you can't serve these customers, we will do it ourselves.” The specter of government nonprofit competition scared the utilities into rethinking their strategy. We're in the same situation now. Some municipalities tried to open up access to all their citizens. The ISPs bribed Congress to make it illegal rather than competing honestly. In the end, trying to hold back progress will fail, and those companies that “get it” will surpass those that don't.

The telecom act of 1994 gave 6 companies a virtual monopoly on handling our progress into broadband. As pointed out above, using subscriber payments, they laid so much fiber optic cable that much of it is still dark. We subscribers did our part for the future. We financed the infrastructure that is still unused.

It seems to me that in the pursuit of higher quarterly profits, they now want to throttle some of the traffic that Neocon characterizes as “wasted”. But a huge segment of their subscriber base wants exactly those “wasted” or “bandwidth hogging” applications. Current ISPs will either deliver or admit they can't.

Things are changing fast; computers are faster and have more memory. “Web 2.0″ is here, though vaguely defined, and includes social networking, blogs, YouTube, Facebook, Digg, Flickr, etc. “Web 3.0″ is -also poorly defined- taking us away from memory hogging applications on our computers to online programs running centrally. A perfect example is Google Docs, on which you can do word processing, spreadsheets and presentations (Powerpoint) online without having these applications running on your computer or even owning the applications. You don't need to buy a program to do any of these tasks any more. This is the trend of the future, and has led some to propose that Vista may be Microsoft's last operating system. There are now minimal computers sometimes called thin clients, that don't bother with big resources like lots of memory, but rather, depend on “cloud computing” meaning that your data and your application is in the “cloud”, that is, online.

There are already computers available to take advantage of this trend, costing $199 for a desktop and $299 for a laptop. This can bring our computer using population up to a high % of the general population. Every student can have an inexpensive computer, but the applications depend on having quick access to the “cloud”. Neocon's right that it's way easier to transmit the image of the document you're editing if the bandwidth isn't being gobbled up by people uploading and downloading big images or video. But that's not the reality today. People DO want to share images, video and files, including music. And it's not just teenagers. Applications you use update regularly with files that are often the size of an entire album of MP3s, or even more. Apple no longer packages iTunes with iPods. They rely on their customers to download a 70 mB application and install it (roughly 15-20 songs in MP3 terms or a similar number of YouTube videos). When it needs updating, it's 15-40 mB depending on how much they've changed. The same applies to “security patches” from Microsoft.

Long story short, EVERYONE wants to move ever more data. The ISPs need to keep up, not lobby government to slow the progress of computing for the sake of their profit. If the federal government stays out of it (now I sound like a republican), the market will advance those companies who offer more to their customers at a better price, as it should. But the monopoly situation makes it imperative that these companies not be allowed to slow progress as electric utilities tried to. It's in all our interests to have a populace well wired for the future, just as it was critical to have universal access to electricity, even if some customers were going to be less profitable than others. In the case of utilities, the government said “if you can't serve these customers, we will do it ourselves.” The specter of government nonprofit competition scared the utilities into rethinking their strategy. We're in the same situation now. Some municipalities tried to open up access to all their citizens. The ISPs bribed Congress to make it illegal rather than competing honestly. In the end, trying to hold back progress will fail, and those companies that “get it” will surpass those that don't.

The internet and technology revolution is moving so fast that these major corporations that bring you high speed internet have to move cautiously.

Why?

Simple. If they rush out and spend about 400-600 billion redoing this IMMENSE countries infrastructure with current technology…………by the time they are finished it will be OBSOLETE.

So they could all rush out and spend upwards of a trillion dollars getting us up to a speed of 15-30 meg download speeds and that sounds awesome doesnt it.

Well when we were all using 26.6 modems I thought I was the bomb when the 56k modems came out. Then when we all got used to 56k modems there were these rumors of Asymmetric Digital subscriber lines coming to a phone near you. ON the flip side their was another form of internet communications called DSL or digital subscriber line.

What to do. What to do. The ADSL could carry way more speed but it was essentially one way. Meaning you could download really fast but you could upload like a snail in hibernation. Thus the name. Or you could go with Digital which was slower for download speeds but it allowed you faster upload speeds. There as a big debate. Who wants to upload stuff. Everyone wants to download stuff. Well to make a long story short the DSL format won out.

Well 256k DSL made its debut and we all were in heaven. Then 1.5 megs came along and were like wow. Then cable showed up with its 5 meg speeds. Then DSL changed to 8 meg downloads for a steep price. Then cable upped its speed to 8 megs. Now cable in places is offering 15 megs and in a few places where they have been willing to spend the money they have run lines that offer 20 megs.

The point is simple here. The technology is continuing to shift and will continue to shift. The industry has to spend perhaps a trillion dollars in new infrastructure for a nation our size. The government dont spend a penny. All these companies that Greendreams seems angry with have to spend their own money to bring you the very best.

Right now we all know that 10 or 15 megs is not the very best. HIgh Definition TV needs about 20 megs to work properly. Once the industry gets to the point where they can offer 30 megs then I think you will see a big investment in the infrastructure.

But they are not going to go out and run lines to joes farm in the hills only to have him writing town hall 5 years from now complaining about piss poor 15 meg download speeds when everyone else is doing 30-50 megs.

The internet and technology revolution is moving so fast that these major corporations that bring you high speed internet have to move cautiously.

Why?

Simple. If they rush out and spend about 400-600 billion redoing this IMMENSE countries infrastructure with current technology…………by the time they are finished it will be OBSOLETE.

So they could all rush out and spend upwards of a trillion dollars getting us up to a speed of 15-30 meg download speeds and that sounds awesome doesnt it.

Well when we were all using 26.6 modems I thought I was the bomb when the 56k modems came out. Then when we all got used to 56k modems there were these rumors of Asymmetric Digital subscriber lines coming to a phone near you. ON the flip side their was another form of internet communications called DSL or digital subscriber line.

What to do. What to do. The ADSL could carry way more speed but it was essentially one way. Meaning you could download really fast but you could upload like a snail in hibernation. Thus the name. Or you could go with Digital which was slower for download speeds but it allowed you faster upload speeds. There as a big debate. Who wants to upload stuff. Everyone wants to download stuff. Well to make a long story short the DSL format won out.

Well 256k DSL made its debut and we all were in heaven. Then 1.5 megs came along and were like wow. Then cable showed up with its 5 meg speeds. Then DSL changed to 8 meg downloads for a steep price. Then cable upped its speed to 8 megs. Now cable in places is offering 15 megs and in a few places where they have been willing to spend the money they have run lines that offer 20 megs.

The point is simple here. The technology is continuing to shift and will continue to shift. The industry has to spend perhaps a trillion dollars in new infrastructure for a nation our size. The government dont spend a penny. All these companies that Greendreams seems angry with have to spend their own money to bring you the very best.

Right now we all know that 10 or 15 megs is not the very best. HIgh Definition TV needs about 20 megs to work properly. Once the industry gets to the point where they can offer 30 megs then I think you will see a big investment in the infrastructure.

But they are not going to go out and run lines to joes farm in the hills only to have him writing town hall 5 years from now complaining about piss poor 15 meg download speeds when everyone else is doing 30-50 megs.

The internet and technology revolution is moving so fast that these major corporations that bring you high speed internet have to move cautiously.

Why?

Simple. If they rush out and spend about 400-600 billion redoing this IMMENSE countries infrastructure with current technology…………by the time they are finished it will be OBSOLETE.

So they could all rush out and spend upwards of a trillion dollars getting us up to a speed of 15-30 meg download speeds and that sounds awesome doesnt it.

Well when we were all using 26.6 modems I thought I was the bomb when the 56k modems came out. Then when we all got used to 56k modems there were these rumors of Asymmetric Digital subscriber lines coming to a phone near you. ON the flip side their was another form of internet communications called DSL or digital subscriber line.

What to do. What to do. The ADSL could carry way more speed but it was essentially one way. Meaning you could download really fast but you could upload like a snail in hibernation. Thus the name. Or you could go with Digital which was slower for download speeds but it allowed you faster upload speeds. There as a big debate. Who wants to upload stuff. Everyone wants to download stuff. Well to make a long story short the DSL format won out.

Well 256k DSL made its debut and we all were in heaven. Then 1.5 megs came along and were like wow. Then cable showed up with its 5 meg speeds. Then DSL changed to 8 meg downloads for a steep price. Then cable upped its speed to 8 megs. Now cable in places is offering 15 megs and in a few places where they have been willing to spend the money they have run lines that offer 20 megs.

The point is simple here. The technology is continuing to shift and will continue to shift. The industry has to spend perhaps a trillion dollars in new infrastructure for a nation our size. The government dont spend a penny. All these companies that Greendreams seems angry with have to spend their own money to bring you the very best.

Right now we all know that 10 or 15 megs is not the very best. HIgh Definition TV needs about 20 megs to work properly. Once the industry gets to the point where they can offer 30 megs then I think you will see a big investment in the infrastructure.

But they are not going to go out and run lines to joes farm in the hills only to have him writing town hall 5 years from now complaining about piss poor 15 meg download speeds when everyone else is doing 30-50 megs.

I did not completely understand why we were all getting the bum's rush toward digital TV. Now I understand better re your explanation. I was on the fed's site the other day looking at the budget (pure masochism I assure you) and wanted to see what kind of money the feds are spending on communications. It's there, but it is so convoluted in its reporting that it is difficult to see where the government's emphasis is backed up by actual building/action. It appears they are much more into control than into building. Frankly someone like you should write those many pages; then it'd be clear

I appreciated the lesson on weather strangling pathways, and the 'strength' of different FM/Am ranges. I'd often wondered after I drove the Pan Americna highway how I could practically all the way in Panama in the middle of the night, broken down with a severed clutch cable on my jeep, get a Texas Christian station in the absolute middle of darker than death, nowhere.

I hope to follow along this subject about who and how broadband is parsed. If you see any articles or have a burning idea on these matters, shoot an email to Joe: he almost always knows where I am in this wide world. That goes for you too GreenDreams and Jim Satterfield.

Neoncon, a lot of what you have outlined reminds me of a game itself; in psych, we call it game theory, wherein the end aim is often pure, but the realities to enjoin that aim rise up and try to contravene everything that attempts the end aim. On a pop culture level this is called 'murphy's law' … but in game theory, the thwarting of rapid movement often contains surprise ventures that are valuable, and that would not have ordinarily arisen if pathway from A to B was a clear shot.

Korea. 25 Billion. Seems like such small potatoes in one way. Given the huge amounts of money US borrowed from Asia and elsewhere to finance the wars…also billions. But a huge amount nonetheless. I thought too when I read your last paras about Romanian's telling me about Ceaucescu's desire to have Bucharest be /look exactly like the long promenade to the Premiere's palace in North Korea, and spent practically the total GNP to do it, but without any ideas for laying communications networks, cable/ et al, because Romania's dictator thought radio was good enough, and TV to him was the end all and be all. And what more could people want?

Surely in this global economy people need access. It's striking to think of how vapidly many heads of state used to think about these critical matters. Or not think at all.

dr.e

I did not completely understand why we were all getting the bum's rush toward digital TV. Now I understand better re your explanation. I was on the fed's site the other day looking at the budget (pure masochism I assure you) and wanted to see what kind of money the feds are spending on communications. It's there, but it is so convoluted in its reporting that it is difficult to see where the government's emphasis is backed up by actual building/action. It appears they are much more into control than into building. Frankly someone like you should write those many pages; then it'd be clear

I appreciated the lesson on weather strangling pathways, and the 'strength' of different FM/Am ranges. I'd often wondered after I drove the Pan Americna highway how I could practically all the way in Panama in the middle of the night, broken down with a severed clutch cable on my jeep, get a Texas Christian station in the absolute middle of darker than death, nowhere.

I hope to follow along this subject about who and how broadband is parsed. If you see any articles or have a burning idea on these matters, shoot an email to Joe: he almost always knows where I am in this wide world. That goes for you too GreenDreams and Jim Satterfield.

Neoncon, a lot of what you have outlined reminds me of a game itself; in psych, we call it game theory, wherein the end aim is often pure, but the realities to enjoin that aim rise up and try to contravene everything that attempts the end aim. On a pop culture level this is called 'murphy's law' … but in game theory, the thwarting of rapid movement often contains surprise ventures that are valuable, and that would not have ordinarily arisen if pathway from A to B was a clear shot.

Korea. 25 Billion. Seems like such small potatoes in one way. Given the huge amounts of money US borrowed from Asia and elsewhere to finance the wars…also billions. But a huge amount nonetheless. I thought too when I read your last paras about Romanian's telling me about Ceaucescu's desire to have Bucharest be /look exactly like the long promenade to the Premiere's palace in North Korea, and spent practically the total GNP to do it, but without any ideas for laying communications networks, cable/ et al, because Romania's dictator thought radio was good enough, and TV to him was the end all and be all. And what more could people want?

Surely in this global economy people need access. It's striking to think of how vapidly many heads of state used to think about these critical matters. Or not think at all.

dr.e

I did not completely understand why we were all getting the bum's rush toward digital TV. Now I understand better re your explanation. I was on the fed's site the other day looking at the budget (pure masochism I assure you) and wanted to see what kind of money the feds are spending on communications. It's there, but it is so convoluted in its reporting that it is difficult to see where the government's emphasis is backed up by actual building/action. It appears they are much more into control than into building. Frankly someone like you should write those many pages; then it'd be clear

I appreciated the lesson on weather strangling pathways, and the 'strength' of different FM/Am ranges. I'd often wondered after I drove the Pan Americna highway how I could practically all the way in Panama in the middle of the night, broken down with a severed clutch cable on my jeep, get a Texas Christian station in the absolute middle of darker than death, nowhere.

I hope to follow along this subject about who and how broadband is parsed. If you see any articles or have a burning idea on these matters, shoot an email to Joe: he almost always knows where I am in this wide world. That goes for you too GreenDreams and Jim Satterfield.

Neoncon, a lot of what you have outlined reminds me of a game itself; in psych, we call it game theory, wherein the end aim is often pure, but the realities to enjoin that aim rise up and try to contravene everything that attempts the end aim. On a pop culture level this is called 'murphy's law' … but in game theory, the thwarting of rapid movement often contains surprise ventures that are valuable, and that would not have ordinarily arisen if pathway from A to B was a clear shot.

Korea. 25 Billion. Seems like such small potatoes in one way. Given the huge amounts of money US borrowed from Asia and elsewhere to finance the wars…also billions. But a huge amount nonetheless. I thought too when I read your last paras about Romanian's telling me about Ceaucescu's desire to have Bucharest be /look exactly like the long promenade to the Premiere's palace in North Korea, and spent practically the total GNP to do it, but without any ideas for laying communications networks, cable/ et al, because Romania's dictator thought radio was good enough, and TV to him was the end all and be all. And what more could people want?

Surely in this global economy people need access. It's striking to think of how vapidly many heads of state used to think about these critical matters. Or not think at all.

dr.e

Wifi is a way to connect to your isp provider without using a hard wired connection. But its use is very localized and as such it has channels much like the old cb radios. I like to think of Wifi as a walkie talkie for your computer. You connect to the internet via your ISP but then you can send a signal without wires to other computers in your house or neighborhood if you so choose.

In general, the lower the frequency the better the signal gets through stuff, think AM radio in the 540 to 1650 KHz ( a kilohertz is a thousand jiggles per second on a graph) range. AM works inside and it works in the rain. Satellite TV is generally at a frequency of 3.7 to 4.4GHz . For anyone who has ever had sattelite tv you know that you experience some interruptions due to weather because the signal must force its way thru precipitation. The higher the frequency the harder it is for the frequency to travel far. The higher the frequency the more power that is needed to make the signal readable. That is why AM stations at low frequencies can be heard 1500 miles away but FM which is in the 105Meg range can only be heard about 50 to 100 miles away. The FCC limits the power to FM stations thus by its nature ensuring that the signal can only travel so far.

Most satellite Internet access providers use frequencies in the 11.7 to 12.7 GHz range. This is not a great frequency for this purpose, In fact, weather radars often operate in the slightly LOWER frequency range between 8.20 and 12.4 GHz. This frequency was chosen for weather radar because it DOES bounce off rain.

Therefore we come to one of the many reasons why the US is wanting Television to go digital and thus freeing up the analog frequencies for other things. One of those things would be sattellite internet service with its lower frequencies providing huge leaps in quality and speed.

7 Megahertz to 1 gigahertz is going to be freed up for other uses because television stations are being forced to go digital and thus 97 percent of all televisions in America do not receive their signal via these frequencies but do in fact use cable, Sattellite or other means.

AS for Korea. One must remember that most of the transmission lines in the United STates were laid in the 40's-70's and that cable itself is a relatively new industry only gaining acceptance in the 70's.

DSL which is digital subscriber line that piggy backs via telephone lines and therefore is not limited to the built in speed disqualifers of typical phone lines is also slowed by the fact that the phone companies have been slow to go to not only fiber optics but high speed fiber optics because of the massive outlay of capital needed for such an endeavor.

Korea on the other hand had access to all the latest infrastructure and was able to install their internet lines using the latest and greatest. The government itself spent 25 billion dollars building a high speed internet service to an area the size of Maine. AS a result they are light years ahead of the US for purely an infrastructure reason.

This I had to look up.

A cursory look at the financial numbers shows why. During construction of the network, about 13.5 percent of South Korea's gross national product came from businesses selling equipment and services, Sang-kyoo Choi, the director of the IT Industry Cooperation Division, International Cooperation Bureau of the Ministry of Information and Communication (MIC), said in an interview.

And this is why they did it.

Wifi is a way to connect to your isp provider without using a hard wired connection. But its use is very localized and as such it has channels much like the old cb radios. I like to think of Wifi as a walkie talkie for your computer. You connect to the internet via your ISP but then you can send a signal without wires to other computers in your house or neighborhood if you so choose.

In general, the lower the frequency the better the signal gets through stuff, think AM radio in the 540 to 1650 KHz ( a kilohertz is a thousand jiggles per second on a graph) range. AM works inside and it works in the rain. Satellite TV is generally at a frequency of 3.7 to 4.4GHz . For anyone who has ever had sattelite tv you know that you experience some interruptions due to weather because the signal must force its way thru precipitation. The higher the frequency the harder it is for the frequency to travel far. The higher the frequency the more power that is needed to make the signal readable. That is why AM stations at low frequencies can be heard 1500 miles away but FM which is in the 105Meg range can only be heard about 50 to 100 miles away. The FCC limits the power to FM stations thus by its nature ensuring that the signal can only travel so far.

Most satellite Internet access providers use frequencies in the 11.7 to 12.7 GHz range. This is not a great frequency for this purpose, In fact, weather radars often operate in the slightly LOWER frequency range between 8.20 and 12.4 GHz. This frequency was chosen for weather radar because it DOES bounce off rain.

Therefore we come to one of the many reasons why the US is wanting Television to go digital and thus freeing up the analog frequencies for other things. One of those things would be sattellite internet service with its lower frequencies providing huge leaps in quality and speed.

7 Megahertz to 1 gigahertz is going to be freed up for other uses because television stations are being forced to go digital and thus 97 percent of all televisions in America do not receive their signal via these frequencies but do in fact use cable, Sattellite or other means.

AS for Korea. One must remember that most of the transmission lines in the United STates were laid in the 40's-70's and that cable itself is a relatively new industry only gaining acceptance in the 70's.

DSL which is digital subscriber line that piggy backs via telephone lines and therefore is not limited to the built in speed disqualifers of typical phone lines is also slowed by the fact that the phone companies have been slow to go to not only fiber optics but high speed fiber optics because of the massive outlay of capital needed for such an endeavor.

Korea on the other hand had access to all the latest infrastructure and was able to install their internet lines using the latest and greatest. The government itself spent 25 billion dollars building a high speed internet service to an area the size of Maine. AS a result they are light years ahead of the US for purely an infrastructure reason.

This I had to look up.

A cursory look at the financial numbers shows why. During construction of the network, about 13.5 percent of South Korea's gross national product came from businesses selling equipment and services, Sang-kyoo Choi, the director of the IT Industry Cooperation Division, International Cooperation Bureau of the Ministry of Information and Communication (MIC), said in an interview.

And this is why they did it.

Wifi is a way to connect to your isp provider without using a hard wired connection. But its use is very localized and as such it has channels much like the old cb radios. I like to think of Wifi as a walkie talkie for your computer. You connect to the internet via your ISP but then you can send a signal without wires to other computers in your house or neighborhood if you so choose.

In general, the lower the frequency the better the signal gets through stuff, think AM radio in the 540 to 1650 KHz ( a kilohertz is a thousand jiggles per second on a graph) range. AM works inside and it works in the rain. Satellite TV is generally at a frequency of 3.7 to 4.4GHz . For anyone who has ever had sattelite tv you know that you experience some interruptions due to weather because the signal must force its way thru precipitation. The higher the frequency the harder it is for the frequency to travel far. The higher the frequency the more power that is needed to make the signal readable. That is why AM stations at low frequencies can be heard 1500 miles away but FM which is in the 105Meg range can only be heard about 50 to 100 miles away. The FCC limits the power to FM stations thus by its nature ensuring that the signal can only travel so far.

Most satellite Internet access providers use frequencies in the 11.7 to 12.7 GHz range. This is not a great frequency for this purpose, In fact, weather radars often operate in the slightly LOWER frequency range between 8.20 and 12.4 GHz. This frequency was chosen for weather radar because it DOES bounce off rain.

Therefore we come to one of the many reasons why the US is wanting Television to go digital and thus freeing up the analog frequencies for other things. One of those things would be sattellite internet service with its lower frequencies providing huge leaps in quality and speed.

7 Megahertz to 1 gigahertz is going to be freed up for other uses because television stations are being forced to go digital and thus 97 percent of all televisions in America do not receive their signal via these frequencies but do in fact use cable, Sattellite or other means.

AS for Korea. One must remember that most of the transmission lines in the United STates were laid in the 40's-70's and that cable itself is a relatively new industry only gaining acceptance in the 70's.

DSL which is digital subscriber line that piggy backs via telephone lines and therefore is not limited to the built in speed disqualifers of typical phone lines is also slowed by the fact that the phone companies have been slow to go to not only fiber optics but high speed fiber optics because of the massive outlay of capital needed for such an endeavor.

Korea on the other hand had access to all the latest infrastructure and was able to install their internet lines using the latest and greatest. The government itself spent 25 billion dollars building a high speed internet service to an area the size of Maine. AS a result they are light years ahead of the US for purely an infrastructure reason.

This I had to look up.

A cursory look at the financial numbers shows why. During construction of the network, about 13.5 percent of South Korea's gross national product came from businesses selling equipment and services, Sang-kyoo Choi, the director of the IT Industry Cooperation Division, International Cooperation Bureau of the Ministry of Information and Communication (MIC), said in an interview.

And this is why they did it.

I wonder how a cable co. structures use for those who are vulnerable, meaning fixed incomes and maybe trying to earn a little online business, or religious orgs, or just plain below poverty line but trying to rise up. Or Audible. com with their tens of thousands of audio downloads?

I do get what neocon said about a river with lots of dams on it that keep moving from here to there, that the rest of the band river has to sort of 'leak through' whatever capillaries are left.

That was a great teaching example about how TMV loads, neocon. You're right, sometimes everything is instantly almost, but most often not… and sometimes absurdly long load up. I have bought as much broadband speed as comcast sells, but am not sure I have ever really seen a diff by paying more. I can see why now, that may be true. The infrastructure is not built out to handle open flow of river.

thanks, pls keep throwing your ideas out. Anyone reading this, and there are thousands who read our articles everyday without commenting, Others will learn from your discussion. My philosophy is there arent two sides to everything; there are several at least,… and some make more sense for some people, and others for other people

but/ and, seeing/hearing from people lets ,many of us learn a lot… in Chinese, that means thank you, you guys.

dr.e

I wonder how a cable co. structures use for those who are vulnerable, meaning fixed incomes and maybe trying to earn a little online business, or religious orgs, or just plain below poverty line but trying to rise up. Or Audible. com with their tens of thousands of audio downloads?

I do get what neocon said about a river with lots of dams on it that keep moving from here to there, that the rest of the band river has to sort of 'leak through' whatever capillaries are left.

That was a great teaching example about how TMV loads, neocon. You're right, sometimes everything is instantly almost, but most often not… and sometimes absurdly long load up. I have bought as much broadband speed as comcast sells, but am not sure I have ever really seen a diff by paying more. I can see why now, that may be true. The infrastructure is not built out to handle open flow of river.

thanks, pls keep throwing your ideas out. Anyone reading this, and there are thousands who read our articles everyday without commenting, Others will learn from your discussion. My philosophy is there arent two sides to everything; there are several at least,… and some make more sense for some people, and others for other people

but/ and, seeing/hearing from people lets ,many of us learn a lot… in Chinese, that means thank you, you guys.

dr.e

broadband goes thorough phone lines but wifi goes thru where/what/how??

and lastly, can people in the US somehow 'jump borders' and llink up say to the Korean access for speed et al? I share Greendreams and Jim Satterfield's ingishgts and neocon's consideration too, that having fast and cheap access is absolute in terms of keeping up with others in the world.

I'm learning from all of you and neocon, I am digesting your last comment; thank you for taking the time to write it all out. I appeciate it. I have a Mac and the link you gave I think will work only for PC of the IBM kind. Thanks for the link for those folks.

dr.e

broadband goes thorough phone lines but wifi goes thru where/what/how??

and lastly, can people in the US somehow 'jump borders' and llink up say to the Korean access for speed et al? I share Greendreams and Jim Satterfield's ingishgts and neocon's consideration too, that having fast and cheap access is absolute in terms of keeping up with others in the world.

I'm learning from all of you and neocon, I am digesting your last comment; thank you for taking the time to write it all out. I appeciate it. I have a Mac and the link you gave I think will work only for PC of the IBM kind. Thanks for the link for those folks.

dr.e