Wrong once again. According to George Tenet the Democrats and Republicans on the hill were brought into and briefed on the wiretaps and gave him permission. Including allowing for the justice department to make rulings on it as well as bringing judges in to review what was going on.

Now if the justice department rules its constitutional and legal then the presdent forges forward. If it goes to the supreme court and they say no then he has not broken the law…….he has followed a law that was legal until struck down by the Supreme court.

If this was the case then everytime the supreme court struck down something legal as being illegal we could then go arrest a couple hundred million people for breaking the law.

Cowards. Lazy.

Or invested?

This impeachment resolution is just a bad idea.

For one thing, of what practical benefit will it be? Bush is going to be out of office in seven months. Does anyone here really think there is a remote chance that congress is going to impeach Bush AND vote to remove him from office before January 20, 2009? Impeachment would merely be a symbolic gesture.

And as Marlow pointed out above, which you all really think is going to benefit from impeachment? Think about it. Bush's approval rating is hovering around 30%. It can't go much lower than it is now. Impeachment would only harden the resolve of the partisan Republicans who already support him and would probably earn him some sympathy points and steer Independents into the Republican fold. Democrats, on the other hand, wil (rightly or wrongly) be accused of partisanship, the same way Republicans were during Clinton's impeachment.

Lastly, Democrats have to decide what they really want to get done during the next 7 months. Impeaching Bush will do absolutely nothing to ending the war in Iraq or improving the economy. Impeaching Bush would be a pretty gutsy move. If the Democrats are going to show any amount of backbone, it ought to be towards doing that which they promised to do during the 2006 midterm elections…end the war in Iraq.

A political party that is willing to its sacrifice its political clout to impeach a president from the opposing party but is not willing to sacrifice its political clout end a war that they claim to oppose isn't a political party that can be taken seriously.

I admire Kucinich for his principled opposition to the war, but impeachment isn't going to solve anything.

We should Impeach each and every President that can be shown to have ever shaded the facts, only presented one side of the story, or outright lied to achieve their agenda, including going to War. Oh wait, that would be just about every single one (even Honest Abe).

I think Bush should be impeached.

Secondly I think we should pass a new amendment to the constitution making it the law of the land that the president should be impeached in the last 6 months of his final term in office.

Then upon completion of the impeachment the sitting president is then Beheaded by the opposing party. Republicans/Democrats…..then the body is placed in the next shuttle and lifted off into the space station where it will remain until the space station crashes and burns up in our atmosphere.

Secondly all memebers of the siting presidents staff, members of his cabinet and any person ever appointed by the sitting president shall be thrown into prision for a term not less then 25 years after being waterboarded into confessing to their high crimes. Additionally any and every person who ever was known to have any type of contact with the president should also be likewise incarcerated and and to be fair and balanced any public figures who work for MSNBC or FOX news depending upon which president we are exectuting will also be hung for daring to show their biased support or spin for the sitting president.

That's why timing is important.
I'm thinking the beginning of the new presidnet's term. You?

Too little, too late!!! It'll all go down the memory hole.

Kucinich may be nuts, but he was nuts enough to be elected.

Nuts enough to call a spade a spade.

This land is governed by the rule of law. I demand that this administration answer to those 35 articles in some venue. Maybe criminal court once they walk out the door. Certainly in civil court. In fact they already are being held accountable in civil court, but mainstream media would have the people believe this behavior is normal and okay for the aristocracy. BULLSHIT. It is not okay for anyone to genocide and murder and plot to destroy a country. NO one. Especially not an American President!

That is insanity.

Saving the Constitution has to count for more than getting Bush.

That's why timing is important.
I'm thinking the beginning of the new presidnet's term. You?

However, I don't think you'll ever get an impeachment out of this, both for political reasons and because the President can point to various legal advice he got saying it was okay to break the law. This does not excuse the President, of course. A mob boss who is told he can launder money in a certain way by his lawyer is still guilty if that method was in fact illegal as decided by a court. But you aren't ever going to get enough votes to convict someone when they can say they were following their (bad) lawyer's advice.

It has always seemed to me that Feingold got it right a couple years ago with his censure motion. It was wrong to break the law and we have it on record now for future Presidents that this was the wrong thing to do. Of course, that went nowhere as well, but that was a political decision.

In general, I would like to say that it should be far more easy for a person to lose their office in this nation. In South Korea yesterday, the PM and the entire Cabinet offered their resignations because of the unpopularity of an agreement about beef imports.

Beef imports.

We don't need to go so far, but I think we would be a little better if officials in the U.S. actually resigned when they screwed up every once in a while instead of “soldiering on.” Take some responsibility some time for your actions. You don't have to go to jail, but you don't get to be President anymore.

It hasn't been the right time for the dicussions so far and now, with the elections, is certainly not the right time.
So, when?

If we wait until something explosive happens under some other presiden't's watch, any attempt at nonpartisan discussions would be doomed again.

I'm not pushing you for an answer. I'm just trying to make a point about timing. where this story began.

If you have no critical thinking skills, and cannot comprehend the evidence that Kucinich has put forth for the people to respond to the high crimes and misdemeanors of Bush and his associates and subordinates, blame that on the lack of resources to provide services (tax collections to provide for our needs) badly needed in our educational systems. Don't blame Kuchinich for the dumbing down of America. He is trying to wake us up so that we can reclaim our honor and punish crimes. If we put blacks in jail for stealing bikes and pencils (Guiliani) then we can put aristocrats in jail for genocide and murder and theft.

So if you cannot get it through your intellect, through no fault of your own, try this. Sometimes music helps crack the egg of unconsciousness!

http://www.earcandleproductions.com/Get_Out.mp3

Stop prentending this is all just political BS; like the Clinton thing was. This is about taking back our country from the very real threat of corporate fascist rule… From stopping the slide into tyranny. About making a proper future for us all instead of just lazilly going along with whatever they say without thinking. This is about becoming a real Democracy again; breaking the corruption and suppression of the mainstream media, taking the burdons and responsibilites of good government back, and preserving our freedom.

There has never been a clearer case for impeaching anyone in history. There has never been a greater need to remove from power a regime that would engulf the entire world in war, famine, and death. There has never been a more desperate time in our country for protecting Freedom. And there has never been such apathetic, cynical, and self-centered denial as now.

Hysterics are what happens when it is too late: It is not too late YET. Let your Congressperson know you support Impeachment. History will be on your side if you do.

Or do you prefer more back and forth exchanges of cutesy phrases to actually considerting presidential powers, regardless of which Party a current president might belong to?

I'm going to have those words engraved in stone and keep them on my desk.
It's nice to have my moton for pragmatism seconded,

I put up a new post a little while ago of details on a radio show we'll be doing today. I love all the comments and if you'd like to join us and hash it out then, feel free to stop by our web chat or call in!

Runasim is right.

Simply as a matter of pragmatic politics…if there are full scale impeachment hearings this year the nation will be torn apart…the GOP and its supporters will be energized…and McCain will be the next president.

I am currently writing this from Canada, America's neighbor to the north, where there is an ideologically pure, uncompromising party of the left – the NDP – that has never, and will never, have a possibility of holding national power.

Do the Democrats want to be pure ideologues, and fight the uncompromising fight…or do they want to win and effect change?

I can hear the chants now…
**Bush lied, people died…Bush lied, people died**
…the chants are, btw, at McCain's first inaugural!