Comments on: What’s Going On In Italy? http://themoderatevoice.com/20276/whats-going-on-in-italy/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:34:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: runasim http://themoderatevoice.com/20276/whats-going-on-in-italy/comment-page-1/#comment-142141 runasim Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:37:43 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/italy/20276/whats-going-on-in-italy/#comment-142141 Lynx.<br>Are you saying that crimes are not investigated and procecuted if they originate with or entail these gypsies? <br>If so, then I would agree.<br><br>If not so, then this woudl be an example of trying to preserve core principles (a system of laws and individual protections) in the face of threats to stability and order. <br>Can you punish the whole group and still preserve core values?.<br>In the US, such thinking led to torture and warrantless wiretapping., still hotly debated topics.<br><br>It's not so easy to find the right place where to draw the line. Lynx.
Are you saying that crimes are not investigated and procecuted if they originate with or entail these gypsies?
If so, then I would agree.

If not so, then this woudl be an example of trying to preserve core principles (a system of laws and individual protections) in the face of threats to stability and order.
Can you punish the whole group and still preserve core values?.
In the US, such thinking led to torture and warrantless wiretapping., still hotly debated topics.

It's not so easy to find the right place where to draw the line.

]]> By: Lynx http://themoderatevoice.com/20276/whats-going-on-in-italy/comment-page-1/#comment-142140 Lynx Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:01:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/places/europe/italy/20276/whats-going-on-in-italy/#comment-142140 Reading the article it seems that the author is willing to lay blame on anti-immigrant feelings pretty much everywhere BUT the immigrants themselves. <br>I grew up in the US and know how hard it is to come to terms with the fact that there really are groups that act different, no matter how afraid teachers told you to be of saying so out loud. The Romanian gypsies that are the target of Italian ire are not so because of the color of their skin, but the content of their very-lacking character. Criminality is sky-high with this populace; drug running, arms dealing, petty theft, grand theft, violent break-ins at homes, kidnapping, beatings and the staw that broke the camels back, baby snatching.<br>The violent uprising after the attempted baby theft wasn't an overreaction to an isolated incident, it was the release of long contained anger and frustration at feeling helpless before people who just arrived and seem determined to make life impossible. <br>In a way there IS a lot of blame to lay at the feet of government. The romanian gypsies (called gitano-rumanos in Spain, to differentiate them from our own gypsies, who are almost saints by comparison) act the way they do because of a deeply ingrained culture and an unstructured homeland. But the Italian (and other European) governments should know better. Instead of being hard on crime and understanding with the frustrations of citizens, they declared the groups pitiful victims and anyone objecting a vile racist, and through their inaction allowed the problem to get bigger and bigger.<br><br>If the far right comes back in Europe and makes a total mess of things it will be the fault of more moderate governments not having the testicular fortitude to do what was necessary in time. Reading the article it seems that the author is willing to lay blame on anti-immigrant feelings pretty much everywhere BUT the immigrants themselves.
I grew up in the US and know how hard it is to come to terms with the fact that there really are groups that act different, no matter how afraid teachers told you to be of saying so out loud. The Romanian gypsies that are the target of Italian ire are not so because of the color of their skin, but the content of their very-lacking character. Criminality is sky-high with this populace; drug running, arms dealing, petty theft, grand theft, violent break-ins at homes, kidnapping, beatings and the staw that broke the camels back, baby snatching.
The violent uprising after the attempted baby theft wasn't an overreaction to an isolated incident, it was the release of long contained anger and frustration at feeling helpless before people who just arrived and seem determined to make life impossible.
In a way there IS a lot of blame to lay at the feet of government. The romanian gypsies (called gitano-rumanos in Spain, to differentiate them from our own gypsies, who are almost saints by comparison) act the way they do because of a deeply ingrained culture and an unstructured homeland. But the Italian (and other European) governments should know better. Instead of being hard on crime and understanding with the frustrations of citizens, they declared the groups pitiful victims and anyone objecting a vile racist, and through their inaction allowed the problem to get bigger and bigger.

If the far right comes back in Europe and makes a total mess of things it will be the fault of more moderate governments not having the testicular fortitude to do what was necessary in time.

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