Comments on: But Remember, this has NOTHING to do with Obama http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:48:33 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: LadyLogician http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134785 LadyLogician Sat, 31 May 2008 04:04:55 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134785 T_Steel - I would say that the truth (about church sermons) lies somewhere between you and Dave's.<br><br>However I will disagree with Dave's assertion that this site is full of Obama Backers. Considering that Jazz regularly links to "right wing" sites (like mine) and I contribute comments here and they are not edited or banned or whatever if I tend to disagree with "ownership" (unlike other sites). Yeah it leans to the left of center...but there is nothing wrong with that as long as ALL opinions are welcome. And here they are!<br><br>LL T_Steel – I would say that the truth (about church sermons) lies somewhere between you and Dave's.

However I will disagree with Dave's assertion that this site is full of Obama Backers. Considering that Jazz regularly links to “right wing” sites (like mine) and I contribute comments here and they are not edited or banned or whatever if I tend to disagree with “ownership” (unlike other sites). Yeah it leans to the left of center…but there is nothing wrong with that as long as ALL opinions are welcome. And here they are!

LL

]]> By: T_Steel http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134784 T_Steel Fri, 30 May 2008 13:21:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134784 If you SAY SO, daveinboca. As a musician, I've been to many predominately white and black churches, and the Father Pfleger type of "performances" were much more common than the heated Rev. Wright rant. And there were some evangelical churches I sat in that make Wright and Pfleger sound like toddlers.<br><br>Look daveinboca, this site is FAR from the Taylor Marsh/Daily Kos hard intra-party wars. We are alot more "moderate" this political season than many political sites. If you SAY SO, daveinboca. As a musician, I've been to many predominately white and black churches, and the Father Pfleger type of “performances” were much more common than the heated Rev. Wright rant. And there were some evangelical churches I sat in that make Wright and Pfleger sound like toddlers.

Look daveinboca, this site is FAR from the Taylor Marsh/Daily Kos hard intra-party wars. We are alot more “moderate” this political season than many political sites.

]]> By: daveinboca http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134783 daveinboca Fri, 30 May 2008 06:52:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134783 <i>there are literally hundreds of thousands of churches across this country. As recent reports have shown, all manner of controversial things are said in many of them from both the left and the right.</i><br><br>I'd like to see where Mr. Jazz gets this delusional projection of his own psychological illness. <br><br>There are very few mainstream Christian churches who even touch on politics, and if they do, it is inferentially, not the bombastic inflammatory incendiary race hatred of Pfleger & Rev. Wrong. There are around 60 million practicing Catholics who have probably never heard a "political" sermon in their lives. And that is good. Ditto for mainline Protestant churches, such as the Episcopal one we attend.<br><br>This blog is getting "guest posters" who are almost all Obama-backers. The only thing "moderate" here is the name. "Centrist" obviously no longer applies to the content here. there are literally hundreds of thousands of churches across this country. As recent reports have shown, all manner of controversial things are said in many of them from both the left and the right.

I'd like to see where Mr. Jazz gets this delusional projection of his own psychological illness.

There are very few mainstream Christian churches who even touch on politics, and if they do, it is inferentially, not the bombastic inflammatory incendiary race hatred of Pfleger & Rev. Wrong. There are around 60 million practicing Catholics who have probably never heard a “political” sermon in their lives. And that is good. Ditto for mainline Protestant churches, such as the Episcopal one we attend.

This blog is getting “guest posters” who are almost all Obama-backers. The only thing “moderate” here is the name. “Centrist” obviously no longer applies to the content here.

]]> By: redfish http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134782 redfish Fri, 30 May 2008 01:51:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134782 runasim,<br><br>Not all whites live privileged lives. If we're to believe Obama in fact---and I don't disagree with him---many people have lost jobs to economic policies. A lot of people inherit problems left to their parents. Whites had to build up from nothing after the Great Depression. Workers in factory towns like Flint, Michigan have been left stranded. Over time we've developed national policies and national dialogues to deal with this. We have a welfare state which helps people with unemployment and social security---for any person of any color to help get his life on track. We've spent money on outreach programs in inner cities. We've passed laws enforcing affirmative action, even when, in some cases, it might hurt have hurt individuals who get the shorter end of the stick. In every classroom we teach children the legacy of racism in America, from the founding to the Civil War to the 60s civil rights movement to today.<br><br>I'm sensitive to the point that even still today the problems of inner cities are inherited from previous generations. But we have to look at what we've done so far; and what today is being productive to help and what is not being productive to help.<br><br>Pfleger is not being productive. When you say "it would be nice to hear acknowledgment" neither are you. America's past of slavery and Jim Crow laws is talked about all the time.<br><br>I wasn't offended by Pfleger. I just found him a buffoon. runasim,

Not all whites live privileged lives. If we're to believe Obama in fact—and I don't disagree with him—many people have lost jobs to economic policies. A lot of people inherit problems left to their parents. Whites had to build up from nothing after the Great Depression. Workers in factory towns like Flint, Michigan have been left stranded. Over time we've developed national policies and national dialogues to deal with this. We have a welfare state which helps people with unemployment and social security—for any person of any color to help get his life on track. We've spent money on outreach programs in inner cities. We've passed laws enforcing affirmative action, even when, in some cases, it might hurt have hurt individuals who get the shorter end of the stick. In every classroom we teach children the legacy of racism in America, from the founding to the Civil War to the 60s civil rights movement to today.

I'm sensitive to the point that even still today the problems of inner cities are inherited from previous generations. But we have to look at what we've done so far; and what today is being productive to help and what is not being productive to help.

Pfleger is not being productive. When you say “it would be nice to hear acknowledgment” neither are you. America's past of slavery and Jim Crow laws is talked about all the time.

I wasn't offended by Pfleger. I just found him a buffoon.

]]> By: skylights http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134781 skylights Fri, 30 May 2008 01:47:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134781 runasim: Agreed. His main point about inherited white privilege is true. The way in which he expresses it, however, is counterproductive.<br><br>More than acknowledgment is needed. The country needs to continue its progress in civil rights, and invest more resources into programs that will help correct this inherited disadvantage. runasim: Agreed. His main point about inherited white privilege is true. The way in which he expresses it, however, is counterproductive.

More than acknowledgment is needed. The country needs to continue its progress in civil rights, and invest more resources into programs that will help correct this inherited disadvantage.

]]> By: Potfry http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134780 Potfry Fri, 30 May 2008 01:43:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134780 maybe it's cause it has EVERYTHING to do with Obama. maybe it's cause it has EVERYTHING to do with Obama.

]]> By: T_Steel http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134779 T_Steel Fri, 30 May 2008 00:18:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134779 Personally I've BEEN TIRED of the many melodramatic ministers... Personally I've BEEN TIRED of the many melodramatic ministers…

]]> By: runasim http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134778 runasim Thu, 29 May 2008 23:49:06 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134778 Pfleger just makes me laugh. <br>Amid the melodrama, he makes a good point., though. Privilege has been inherited, as have the scars of slavery.<br><br>No punishment, no retribution needed. or wanted. <br> It would be nice to hear acknowledgement, however. <br>. Pfleger just makes me laugh.
Amid the melodrama, he makes a good point., though. Privilege has been inherited, as have the scars of slavery.

No punishment, no retribution needed. or wanted.
It would be nice to hear acknowledgement, however.
.

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134777 archangel Thu, 29 May 2008 22:17:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134777 dear LadyLogician. Amen. <br><br>dr.e dear LadyLogician. Amen.

dr.e

]]> By: Holly_in_Cincinnati http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134776 Holly_in_Cincinnati Thu, 29 May 2008 22:17:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134776 Now that I've watched the YouTube, I think that Fr. Pfleger is a fine one to talk about white entitlement as he is probably descended from German Catholic immigrants who were grossly discriminated against. Both Trinity UCC and Fr. Pfleger's St. Sabina are likely to lose their tax-exempt status due to promoting (and attacking) candidates from the pulpit. Now that I've watched the YouTube, I think that Fr. Pfleger is a fine one to talk about white entitlement as he is probably descended from German Catholic immigrants who were grossly discriminated against. Both Trinity UCC and Fr. Pfleger's St. Sabina are likely to lose their tax-exempt status due to promoting (and attacking) candidates from the pulpit.

]]> By: Jazz http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134775 Jazz Thu, 29 May 2008 21:44:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134775 Definitely a fair point, LL. Noted. Definitely a fair point, LL. Noted.

]]> By: LadyLogician http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134774 LadyLogician Thu, 29 May 2008 21:22:46 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134774 I agree to a point with Joe. YES we do see a lot of the "politics of personality" in current campaigns. HOWEVER what bothers me is when you have a real disagreement on policy and people still call it a "personal attack". For example, if you say that candidate A voted for a highly controversial bill, that is considered a personal attack in some quarters and that is wrong.<br><br>LL I agree to a point with Joe. YES we do see a lot of the “politics of personality” in current campaigns. HOWEVER what bothers me is when you have a real disagreement on policy and people still call it a “personal attack”. For example, if you say that candidate A voted for a highly controversial bill, that is considered a personal attack in some quarters and that is wrong.

LL

]]> By: joegandelman http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134772 joegandelman Thu, 29 May 2008 20:48:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134772 American politics has now descended to where the main component is trying to discredit someone you don't like -- whether it's Hillary, or Obama or McCain. It again is truly incredible that with all of the huge issues you don't have a substantive debate on the part of Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, liberals and centrists. There are indeed true concerns that may surface about personalities. But as an independent voter I am so totally turned off by these tactics that my voting more and more is about casting a vote against the candidate who has used the sleaziest tactics and not stuck to the issues.<br><br>Oh:<br><br> This has NOTHING to do with bloggers, and NOTHING to do with partisans. American politics has now descended to where the main component is trying to discredit someone you don't like — whether it's Hillary, or Obama or McCain. It again is truly incredible that with all of the huge issues you don't have a substantive debate on the part of Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, liberals and centrists. There are indeed true concerns that may surface about personalities. But as an independent voter I am so totally turned off by these tactics that my voting more and more is about casting a vote against the candidate who has used the sleaziest tactics and not stuck to the issues.

Oh:

This has NOTHING to do with bloggers, and NOTHING to do with partisans.

]]> By: Davebo http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134769 Davebo Thu, 29 May 2008 20:31:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134769 I'd like to mention at the outset, this has NOTHING to do with Obama.<br><br>But his neighbor 3 doors down has a cousin who's barber is a registered sex offender.<br><br>But again, this has NOTHING to do with Obama and I'm NOT nearly as pathetic as I sound. I'd like to mention at the outset, this has NOTHING to do with Obama.

But his neighbor 3 doors down has a cousin who's barber is a registered sex offender.

But again, this has NOTHING to do with Obama and I'm NOT nearly as pathetic as I sound.

]]> By: T_Steel http://themoderatevoice.com/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-134768 T_Steel Thu, 29 May 2008 20:07:09 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19990/but-remember-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-obama/#comment-134768 And if you read the comments in that post by BTD, people are attaching the comments to Senator Obama like flypaper to flies. Nothing to do with Senator Obama indeed... (sarcasm)<br><br>Intra-partisan politics for the WIN! And if you read the comments in that post by BTD, people are attaching the comments to Senator Obama like flypaper to flies. Nothing to do with Senator Obama indeed… (sarcasm)

Intra-partisan politics for the WIN!

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