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	<title>Comments on: Gays, God, and Government: Self-righteousness in the State Capitols (Guest Voice)</title>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134620</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 00:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134620</guid>
		<description>No doubt religon has had a role in this country, but it is by no means our driving force.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Wrong.  It is and has been a driving force in this country.  Even today the fact that the left rails against the right for Using god to advance their agenda shows that God is alive and well on Planet America.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Right or wrong is not relevant to my discussion.  I simply am pointing out the facts.  Despite the fact that you choose to not agree with my conclusion does not alter the fact that GOD today, yesterday and during the founding of this nation was a Major driving force in which way we have gone and how we have gotten there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No doubt religon has had a role in this country, but it is by no means our driving force.</p>
<p>Wrong.  It is and has been a driving force in this country.  Even today the fact that the left rails against the right for Using god to advance their agenda shows that God is alive and well on Planet America.</p>
<p>Right or wrong is not relevant to my discussion.  I simply am pointing out the facts.  Despite the fact that you choose to not agree with my conclusion does not alter the fact that GOD today, yesterday and during the founding of this nation was a Major driving force in which way we have gone and how we have gotten there.</p>
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		<title>By: Slamfu</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134619</link>
		<dc:creator>Slamfu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 21:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134619</guid>
		<description>God does not decide the law of the land, period.  God &quot;says&quot; whatever is most convenient to the person wielding the holy book wants him to say.  Its totally subjective and by nature denies rights to others who don&#039;t believe as you do, which is totally unamerican.   No doubt religon has had a role in this country, but it is by no means our driving force.  It is a driving force in the middle east, and look what its done for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God does not decide the law of the land, period.  God &#8220;says&#8221; whatever is most convenient to the person wielding the holy book wants him to say.  Its totally subjective and by nature denies rights to others who don&#39;t believe as you do, which is totally unamerican.   No doubt religon has had a role in this country, but it is by no means our driving force.  It is a driving force in the middle east, and look what its done for them.</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134617</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134617</guid>
		<description>&quot;God has always been the driving force of this nation. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, not for everyone, but religion has been a strong force throughout America&#039;s history.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The argument here is not about the presence or absence of God in American life. It is about who gets to be God&#039;s mouthpiece.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In addition to being inspired by God, people also have the gift of free will. That means the people, each person, is responsible for  how he applies that inspiration in his personal and political life.   Hiding behind &#039;God&#039;s will&#039; is shirking personal responsibility and blaming God for one&#039;s own errors of judgment.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s a current obsession to describe everything as a Right vs. Left issue.  In reality, however, there are no armies of people divided strictly along a L-R boundary line on the God issue.  I suspect those who see it like that, just want to have an another excuse for denigrating  political opponents, and I find it  disturbing when God is used like  a political  shotgun.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Evangelicals have much more in common with each othher than the extent of  their divisions according to what God inspires them to do.  Yet, they don&#039;t agree on environmentalism, homosexuality,  the role of religion in politics and a host of other issues.&lt;br&gt;The Episcopalian Church  is divided about female ministers and homosexuality, as well.  There are even mini rebellions in that staid old lady, the Catholic Church.&lt;br&gt;Not every Catholic bows to the authority of the Pope on every questoon.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;These are all signs of recognition that personal responsibility is involved in  what we hear God say. It&#039;s that recognition that leads many to believe that It&#039;s not right to make God choose sides  in elections or debates.   It is, after all, people exercising their free will who participate in elections, policy debates and civic life.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is not the same as making God inaccessible in private or public life.&lt;br&gt;It is making God inaccessible as the umpire in team sports or political contests&lt;br&gt;It is about having people take responsibility for their own choices..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God has always been the driving force of this nation. &#8220;</p>
<p>Well, not for everyone, but religion has been a strong force throughout America&#39;s history.</p>
<p>The argument here is not about the presence or absence of God in American life. It is about who gets to be God&#39;s mouthpiece.</p>
<p>In addition to being inspired by God, people also have the gift of free will. That means the people, each person, is responsible for  how he applies that inspiration in his personal and political life.   Hiding behind &#39;God&#39;s will&#39; is shirking personal responsibility and blaming God for one&#39;s own errors of judgment.</p>
<p>It&#39;s a current obsession to describe everything as a Right vs. Left issue.  In reality, however, there are no armies of people divided strictly along a L-R boundary line on the God issue.  I suspect those who see it like that, just want to have an another excuse for denigrating  political opponents, and I find it  disturbing when God is used like  a political  shotgun.</p>
<p>Evangelicals have much more in common with each othher than the extent of  their divisions according to what God inspires them to do.  Yet, they don&#39;t agree on environmentalism, homosexuality,  the role of religion in politics and a host of other issues.<br />The Episcopalian Church  is divided about female ministers and homosexuality, as well.  There are even mini rebellions in that staid old lady, the Catholic Church.<br />Not every Catholic bows to the authority of the Pope on every questoon.</p>
<p>These are all signs of recognition that personal responsibility is involved in  what we hear God say. It&#39;s that recognition that leads many to believe that It&#39;s not right to make God choose sides  in elections or debates.   It is, after all, people exercising their free will who participate in elections, policy debates and civic life.</p>
<p>That is not the same as making God inaccessible in private or public life.<br />It is making God inaccessible as the umpire in team sports or political contests<br />It is about having people take responsibility for their own choices..</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134612</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 17:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134612</guid>
		<description>&quot;maybe they&#039;d get another shot at governing.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They&#039;re guaranteed it anyway once in a while if the Dems go too far to the left or otherwise mess things up too much.  But that isn&#039;t what you&#039;re talking about, of course.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Unfortunately, the GOP needs to become more libertarian and respectful of constitutional federalism to offer something really refreshing and attractive to the learned, but this flies in the face of ever-growing entitlements and other benefits from Washington that buy ever-larger vote totals, while Washington (which loves power) continues to get larger and ever more interventionist.  I have no confidence in a revived GOP.  It likely will range from just the Opposition to Dems Lite as &quot;needed.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;maybe they&#39;d get another shot at governing.&#8221;</p>
<p>They&#39;re guaranteed it anyway once in a while if the Dems go too far to the left or otherwise mess things up too much.  But that isn&#39;t what you&#39;re talking about, of course.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the GOP needs to become more libertarian and respectful of constitutional federalism to offer something really refreshing and attractive to the learned, but this flies in the face of ever-growing entitlements and other benefits from Washington that buy ever-larger vote totals, while Washington (which loves power) continues to get larger and ever more interventionist.  I have no confidence in a revived GOP.  It likely will range from just the Opposition to Dems Lite as &#8220;needed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134611</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134611</guid>
		<description>We are a multicultural society built on the concept of religious freedom. That means that we accept that God says different things (or in the case of atheism- nothing) to different folks. Which is the best reason to keep whatever we think He says or wants us to do out of our government. God has been used and misused over the centuries to start a myriad of wars and in our own country as an excuse for imperialistic expansion.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Very religious voters are often easily manipulated.  The religious right lent their support to the GOP in the belief that they would best advance their agenda. But in doing so the GOP has attempted to encroach on the rights of the rest of us, and a series of moral scandals revealed that their representatives are no better than the lowest of sinners, which has led to the inevitable backlash. Thus the need for Republicans to regroup and figure out what they stand for. The GOP has used the religious right by grandstanding on wedge issues like gay marriage, abortion and flag burning--usually right before a key election. They are finding out that this strategy is no longer a path to electoral success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are a multicultural society built on the concept of religious freedom. That means that we accept that God says different things (or in the case of atheism- nothing) to different folks. Which is the best reason to keep whatever we think He says or wants us to do out of our government. God has been used and misused over the centuries to start a myriad of wars and in our own country as an excuse for imperialistic expansion.</p>
<p>Very religious voters are often easily manipulated.  The religious right lent their support to the GOP in the belief that they would best advance their agenda. But in doing so the GOP has attempted to encroach on the rights of the rest of us, and a series of moral scandals revealed that their representatives are no better than the lowest of sinners, which has led to the inevitable backlash. Thus the need for Republicans to regroup and figure out what they stand for. The GOP has used the religious right by grandstanding on wedge issues like gay marriage, abortion and flag burning&#8211;usually right before a key election. They are finding out that this strategy is no longer a path to electoral success.</p>
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		<title>By: comport</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-112495</link>
		<dc:creator>comport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 15:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-112495</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134609</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134609</guid>
		<description>I heard an interview with Mickey Edwards yesterday, he was talking about his recent book: &quot;Reclaiming Conservatism: How a Great American Political Movement Got Lost--And How It Can Find Its Way Back&quot;. Pretty fascinating stuff. Amazon has more info, reviews, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard an interview with Mickey Edwards yesterday, he was talking about his recent book: &#8220;Reclaiming Conservatism: How a Great American Political Movement Got Lost&#8211;And How It Can Find Its Way Back&#8221;. Pretty fascinating stuff. Amazon has more info, reviews, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134605</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134605</guid>
		<description>Todays conservatives have little in common with the traditional conservatives of my parents generation (who cared about the country more than they did raw pursuit of power).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In relation to this article your parents were so adamantly opposed to Gays that the gay lifestyle was in the closet.  I of course am using your parents in a generic sense.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;only God seems to be saying different things to different people.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Are you sure runasim?  God seems to be talking to the right and has abandoned the left.  I rarely if ever hear the left talking about what god is saying.  Or that god is in favor of Gay rights.  Abortion. Gun control.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;God has always been the driving force of this nation.  For democrats and republicans alike.  Always. It has only been in the last few decades that the movement to bring about change has decided that those opposed to their agenda is the enemy.  Rather they be left or right. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Instead of Opponents they are the ENEMY.   For the left God has become the enemy because the Right leans on God and points to God as their reason for being right.  This has in effect alienated a large amount of people who do not like seeing god as a ping pong ball in a game of humanistic Political jockeying.  And when I say alienated a lot of people I mean on both the Right and the left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todays conservatives have little in common with the traditional conservatives of my parents generation (who cared about the country more than they did raw pursuit of power).</p>
<p>In relation to this article your parents were so adamantly opposed to Gays that the gay lifestyle was in the closet.  I of course am using your parents in a generic sense.  </p>
<p>only God seems to be saying different things to different people.</p>
<p>Are you sure runasim?  God seems to be talking to the right and has abandoned the left.  I rarely if ever hear the left talking about what god is saying.  Or that god is in favor of Gay rights.  Abortion. Gun control.</p>
<p>God has always been the driving force of this nation.  For democrats and republicans alike.  Always. It has only been in the last few decades that the movement to bring about change has decided that those opposed to their agenda is the enemy.  Rather they be left or right. </p>
<p>Instead of Opponents they are the ENEMY.   For the left God has become the enemy because the Right leans on God and points to God as their reason for being right.  This has in effect alienated a large amount of people who do not like seeing god as a ping pong ball in a game of humanistic Political jockeying.  And when I say alienated a lot of people I mean on both the Right and the left.</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134603</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134603</guid>
		<description>I keep thinking about the FF (like Adams) who recognozed how easy it was for a democracy to become rule by a mob.  That&#039;s why there is a third branch of government (the judiciary) to keep things in check (hopefully).  But when the mob doesn&#039;t like court rulings, it&#039;s called jucicial activism. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m especially revolted when God, poor God, gets drageed into these fights as the final arbiter.  It&#039;s amazing how many people hear what God has to say on these contentious matters, only God seems to be saying different things to different people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking about the FF (like Adams) who recognozed how easy it was for a democracy to become rule by a mob.  That&#39;s why there is a third branch of government (the judiciary) to keep things in check (hopefully).  But when the mob doesn&#39;t like court rulings, it&#39;s called jucicial activism. </p>
<p>I&#39;m especially revolted when God, poor God, gets drageed into these fights as the final arbiter.  It&#39;s amazing how many people hear what God has to say on these contentious matters, only God seems to be saying different things to different people.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-134596</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/homosexuality/19815/gays-god-and-government-self-righteousness-in-the-state-capitols-guest-voice/#comment-134596</guid>
		<description>Todays conservatives have little in common with the traditional conservatives of my parents generation  (who cared about the country more than they did raw pursuit of power). If this new crop bothered to remember their roots, dropped the god brigade, the neocons, and all the hypocrisy, then just maybe they&#039;d get another shot at governing. Much self-examination is in order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todays conservatives have little in common with the traditional conservatives of my parents generation  (who cared about the country more than they did raw pursuit of power). If this new crop bothered to remember their roots, dropped the god brigade, the neocons, and all the hypocrisy, then just maybe they&#39;d get another shot at governing. Much self-examination is in order.</p>
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