My migrant story was not an argument at all, so your observations about the nature of arguments don't really apply,, unless I'm missing something.

My migrant story was an observation that statistics can't, (and they are not intended to) show the human experience that underlies the statstics. .IMO, that is important to remember.

Further, it was a meditation on how statistics and demographics and such, can have the effect of splitting people further apart (because they point out diffferences) rather than draw then closer together, (by evoking the common humanity in us all.)

Also, I was lamenting the judgmentalism that creeps in when the focus is on differences. That, maybe, should have been left as an aside, and I might have done so were I prepareing a full fledged academic tratise. As it was, I was just frre associaitng.

Since I'm ;lookomg at this from a differemt amgle, we are not talking the same lnaguage. Therefore it can't be an argument, it can only be parallel observations..

My migrant story was not an argument at all, so your observations about the nature of arguments don't really apply,, unless I'm missing something.

My migrant story was an observation that statistics can't, (and they are not intended to) show the human experience that underlies the statstics. .IMO, that is important to remember.

Further, it was a meditation on how statistics and demographics and such, can have the effect of splitting people further apart (because they point out diffferences) rather than draw then closer together, (by evoking the common humanity in us all.)

Also, I was lamenting the judgmentalism that creeps in when the focus is on differences. That, maybe, should have been left as an aside, and I might have done so were I prepareing a full fledged academic tratise. As it was, I was just frre associaitng.

Since I'm ;lookomg at this from a differemt amgle, we are not talking the same lnaguage. Therefore it can't be an argument, it can only be parallel observations..

(to go all predicate logic on people, it's existential versus universal quantification)

(to go all predicate logic on people, it's existential versus universal quantification)

Hall Road — every time I've been on it so far I've encountered at least one Hummer.

T-Steel had posted several days ago a thread about the “magic” four-dollar mark for gasoline. I saw this earlier today in Ann Arbor — $4.00-a-gallon gasoline. I've been light on the throttle for months (and reduced the number and lengths of trips taken) to save fuel, but almost nobody else in Iowa or here in Detroit metro has also reached that point, judging by the speeds people are driving in town and on the highways.

… and doing a crappy job of driving them, as are so many others on the roads here. I can't believe not only the speeding but all the tailgating and the other IQ-50 stunts like changing lanes without signaling first…it's all about me, Me, ME.

I haven't seen that many for-sale signs so far, Rudi. I guess the credit lines aren't exhausted yet.

Studies and statistics are vital to understanding individuals and societies. I appreciate all such endeavors..

What could/ be the benefitcial consequence of these studies is a better understanding of those that are not like us and a recognition of the common humanity we all share.

Instead, the result too often is for some people to distance themselves further and to issue a judgment: this is what they are doing wrong. Once their errors are identified, it's safe to dismiss them like some alien misguided beings that have nothing in common with us.

We are right (superior), and they are wrong, (inferior) and, therefore, we have nothing in common that binds us together. .

Well, I judge too. In my judgement, an inabbility to imagine walking in the other' man's shoes,, not even for the few minutes it takes to read some statistics, is by far the greatest of human shortcomings. We end up building walls around us iinstead of bridges between us, and welcome strife and conflict as the primary means of contact.

What I seek to learn from studies and statistics is so different from you, we will just have to accept living on opposite sides of a very high wall.

I don't think we will ever have a common language for discussions.

I have always found it odd that progressives really like anecdotal stories when they support their points but call people racist when non-progressives use anecdotal stories, they are immediately called racist.

Do you really think that there are white migrant workers? Do you realy think that were are company stores? You used a story from at least 40 years ago Yet, today I can go to the local shopping mall and find pink collar black women buying very expensive shoes that they cannot really afford.

Even the Wharton School could not deny that poor blacks spend too much money to flashy luxury items. All the study did was propose a caucse that leaves poor blacks blameless for their actions.

I lived in a town for 5 years whose orchard economy was dependent on migrant workers, NONE OF WHOM WERE BLACK.

They were paid once a month on a Friday, and they were lucky if any money was left on Sunday. The money went for take-out food, beer and wine, cheap toys and flashy clothing that didn't survive the first laundering.
Then it was on to the company store for the rest of the month, with its available crediit for food with shamelesslessly inflated prices.

Somewhere along the generational lines, they got trapped in hopelessness. The exploitation got the better of them. Their lives as social outcasts got the bettter of them.. Their lives of rootlessmenss got the better of them
Could they have done better? Sure.
My father tried to counsel them about money, but it seldom took. It was too late and too temporary, and they had lost hope.

I repeat: these were white migrants, as American as they come.
Maybe they needed a Cosby to speak to them, but no one showed up, neither with a kind word nor a harsh word.
It was easier to judge from a disitance.

BTW, William Clay was eventually elected and was a prototype for William Jefferson of NO or Conyers of Detroit—I believe his son now holds his seat.

Just the facts…..there has to be a moral change, not a redistribution of wealth. Thank God for Cosby & i'll have to read the Atlantic article.

When I worked as a deliveryman, one of the things I always found odd are the homes where there were no books, magazines, or newspapers. I guess there is no status in going to the bookstore.

Speaking of Cosby, I think he has a powerful, yet controversial message. The Atlantic has an article about him which I highlighted on my blog, Ed's Forum. The article on Cosby is long but worth the read.