An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right

Bush’s Comments Made Abroad About Obama: A New Low Amid Low Politics

ThumbsDown.jpg

When President George Bush made comments in Israel accusing Democratic Senator Barack Obama of wanting to appease terrorism, it raised several issues.

First, he didn’t actually name Obama so the White House could say it was all in Mr. Obama’s mind. This is the pols’ timeless technique of “plausible deniability” — although in this case only a jar of sauerkraut sitting on the shelf at Stop & Shop in New Haven, Connecticut would think Bush is actually being misunderstood.

The problem: Bush had made comments on Tuesday similar but not quite as blunt as the ones he chose to make on foreign soil. Read our earlier post to recap and be sure to see the update with the link to his earlier comments (and from Senator Joe Lieberman saying Bush got it exactly right).

Secondly, over the years when Democrats made sharply partisan comments from foreign soil blasting the U.S. Republicans, many independents, and some Democrats angrily denounced them. Using foreign soil to blast your own country or candidates is considered one of the lowest forms of politics. But without reading blog commentary or watching and listening to Republican commentators this independent voter (who voted for Ronald Reagan) knows what the argument most likely is in most quarters: strip it away and it’s “It’s OK if Bush does it” (because he has an “R” in front of his name) but if Obama did it he would be lambasted.

But the Philadelphia Daily News’ Will Bunch says it better than I can because I’m still absorbing the spectacle of someone who is supposed to represent ALL OF US including Democrats and independents having in the space of one week TWICE equated Democrats and now Obama (nameless but read our previous post) with appeasement and suggesting that unless you vote for his party you may die in a terrorist attack.

So here are generous portions from Bunch’s post with some comments:

I’ve seen a lot of sad things in American politics in my lifetime — the resignation of a president who became a national disgrace after he oversaw a campaign of break-ins and cover-ups, another who circumvented the Constitution to trade arms for hostages, and yet is now hailed as national hero. And those paled to what we have seen in the last seven years — flagrant disregard for the Constitution, the launching of a “pre-emptive” war on false pretenses, and discussions about torture and other shocking abuses inside the White House inner sanctum.

But now it’s come to this: A new low that I never imagined was even possible.

President Bush went on foreign soil today, and committed what I consider an act of political treason: Comparing the candidate of the U.S. opposition party to appeasers of Nazi Germany — in the very nation that was carved out from the horrific calamity of the Holocaust. Bush’s bizarre and beyond-appropriate detour into American presidential politics took place in the middle of what should have been an occasion for joy: A speech to Israeli’s Knesset to honor that nation’s 60th birthday.


I’ve said it before on TMV: George Bush has governed as if he is President of the Base instead of President of the United States and ALL Americans. He has worked hard to attain his record-breaking low approval ratings but it’s clear he feels he has more work to do before he leaves office. More Bunch:

As a believer in free speech, I think Bush has a right to say what he wants, but as a President of the United States who swore to uphold the Constitution, his freedom also carries an awesome and solemn responsibility, and what this president said today is a serious breach of that high moral standard.

Of course, there are differences of opinion on how America should handle Iran, and that’s why we’re having an election here at home, to sort these issues out — hopefully with respect and not with emotional and inaccurate appeals. Not only is the president’s comment a gross misrepresentation of Barack Obama’s stance on the issue, but ironically, it comes just a day after his own Secretary of State, Robert Gates, said of Iran: “We need to figure out a way to develop some leverage . . . and then sit down and talk with them.” Is Gates a Nazi appeaser-type, too? And Bush has been hardly consistent on this point, either. Look at his own dealings with oil-rich Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, linked to deadly terror attacks like Pan Am Flight 103.

But what Bush did in Israel this morning goes well beyond the accepted confines of American political debate, When the president speaks to a foreign parliament on behalf of our country, his message needs to be clear and unambiguous. Our democracy may look messy to outsiders, and we may have our disagreements with some sharp elbows thrown around, but at the end of the day we are not Republicans or Democrats or liberals or conservatives.

It is a mindset – part of what I call the “talk radio political culture” of 21st century America. It’s the mindset of divide and rule — that keeping your party in power means its OK to use exaggerations, press hot buttons so you are supported not due to the quality of your ideas, policies and how you argue them, but by making Americans hate or fear other Americans.

Just as FDR and Eisenhower will be remembered for having brought people together, and Ronald Reagan managed to disarm critics with his charm and considerable wit, Bush will be remembered for what in the 1960s they called “gut politics” and in essence adapting a form of McCarthyism to 21st century issues. Instead of being soft on communism, it’s now soft on terrorism.

It WORKS. But it eschews genuine thoughtful dialogue in favor of misrepresentation, exaggeration and inaccurate definition. MORE:

We are Americans.

And you, Mr. Bush, are the leader of us all. To use a diplomatic setting on foreign soil to score a cheap political point at home is way beneath your office, way beneath your country, and way beneath the people you serve. You have been handed an office once uplifted to great heights by fellow countrymen from Washington to Lincoln to Roosevelt to Eisenhower, and have plunged it so deeply into the Karl-Rove-and-Rush-Limbaugh-fueled world of political destruction and survival of all costs that have lost all perspective — and all sense of decency. To travel to Israel and to associate a sitting American senator and your possible successor in the Oval Office with those who at one time gave comfort to an enemy of the United States is, in and of itself, an act of political treason.

Bunch ends with this:

Today, it’s a whole new ballgame. I believe this treacherous statement by a U.S. president in Israel is a signal to the Democrats in the House in Washington, that it’s time to play its Constitutional role in ending this trauma, before even greater acts against the interest of America are wrongly committed in our name.

It’ll never happen, won’t come to that and it would be a huge mistake on the part of the Democats if they did just that (which they won’t).

Elections are on the horizon. Democrats would find themselves playing defensive action as the GOP message machine (talk radio, cable shows, new and old media pundits) would portray Bush as the victim. It could actually boomerang and rally the GOP base. Remember the Bill Clinton impeachment?

What is certain is that there will be a segment of Americans who will feel that those who support and defend this kind of political statement don’t deserve their support as individuals and as a party. This independent voter votes by mail. And Mr. Bush is making my decision very easy for me.

P.S. It’s now a cliche of blogging that if you dare take a strong stand on an issue you can’t be a moderate, independent or centrist, a contention not shown in polls or in American history read this book written by former Bill Clinton/Rudy Guiliani aide, centrist John Avlon.).

In fact, it isn’t being moderate if you enable or remain silent when a whole party and a candidate is demonized…twice in one week. Bush is making the best argument now for independent voters to vote a protest vote.

This isn’t a matter of being pro-Obama, or pro-McCain or pro-Clinton or pro-Barr. It’s a matter of being an American who respects the other views of other Americans and wants to see them portrayed accurately — particularly by elected officials who ought to know better.

And who already do.

Many. Of. Us. Have. Had. Enough. Of. This.

To read considerable blog commentary on this issue, go HERE.

  • PWT
    I believe that Mr. Bush portrayed the views of Bigger accurately. He can whine all he wants, he still ain't gonna get the car keys this time around.
  • Slamfu
    Bush is like that contractor you hired to remodel your house. He comes in, tears things up, goes way over budget and takes so long to do the job you decide to hire someone else. He can't finish the job but keeps telling us how great he is and how nice its all going to be when he's done.

    Where Goerge W. Bush gets off lecturing anyone on international affairs is beyond me. That guy isn't qualified to read books to children on the topic.
  • pacatrue
    Joe, to the idea "it's okay if Bush does it," I think we can add another opinion that PWT represents, namely, "it's okay as long as it's against [insert American I disagree with here]."

    More generally, it seems that the difference between foreign soil and american soil is decreasing rapidly as far as information and ideas are concerned. 100 years, and even 30 years ago, it was a big deal to cross an international border for most Americans. There was some possibility of acting one way at home and one way abroad. However, today everyone in most foreign nation are fully aware of the internal American divisions and the rhetoric used.
  • HappySurge
    Bigger? You mind explaining that phrasing there, genius?
  • Mike_P
    PWT, that is an interesting nickname there. Are you off your meds? I can't find any other references of it on teh googles. Care to tell us how you came up with it? You've used it on a couple of posts here now, and I have a feeling your welcome is just about over...
  • PWT
    Finally!

    Bigger Thomas is the main character in the novel, 'Native Son'. My view is that Mr. Obama is Bigger Thomas and that the Dalton family is a proxy for the United States of America. However, this time, we ain't gonna give him the keys to the car.
  • DLS
    Bush-bashing and other lefty tantrums reach an all new low.

    Cheer up, children -- tomorrow gives you a chance to go lower.
  • DLS
    "Where Goerge W. Bush gets off lecturing anyone on international affairs is beyond me."

    This is something so obvious even George W. Bush can get it right.

    The rabid anti-war left-wing fringe in this country is a disgrace to this country as well as an effective disgrace to the memory of Neville Chamberlain, who wrong as he was, had plenty of company and had a lot underpinning the position he and many others took at the time. The modern anti-war dolts, who are aping both the truly traitorous anti-Vietnam-war extremists (those who sent care packages to the Viet Cong should have been executed promptly on their college campuses, hung from inside the tower of the Berkeley Campanile, for example) and the pro-Soviet Usual Suspect scuzz of the anti-Reagan, anti-USA-and-West Eighties, who are now anti-USA-West-and-Israel, pro-terrorist-and-Iran, even merely as useful idiots, have no sound history behind them or any other, less substantial, excuses.

    The most shallow and stupid are simply knee-jerk, lock-step Anti-War, Anti-Bush [tm].
  • DLS
    "However, this time, we ain't gonna give him the keys to the car."

    Americans may hand him the keys given McCain is the other guy who wants them.

    A lot of kids would think it's hip to give them to Junior rather than to dull Grandpa.
  • Mike_P
    Uh DLS, I'd like to note for the record that the citizens you call "The rabid anti-war left-wing fringe in this country," and "anti-Bush™" now comprise way more than 60% of the population.
  • Slamfu
    "This is something so obvious even George W. Bush can get it right"

    Really? OMFG REALLY? Are you insane or just stupid? Turn on the news pal, look up some archived footage from 2003 on. Note its the SAME in content, language, and where are at in terms of progress in the GWOT as today. If anything we've backslid using Bush's ideal version of interntaional policymaking. At what point do you pro war folks take a minute to examine the facts and say the truly obvious, "This isn't working, maybe we should try a differnt tact."

    Talking is not surrendering. No nations are going to be ceded to Iranian expansion. None of these countries is going to invade its neighbors, much less us, without a swift and crushing response from the world a la Gulf War I. How utterly obvious does it have to be for you gusy to see the shoot first talk later approach has been boning us ever since Bush began implementing it. Don't you guys ever care about actual results instead of tough talk and shoot from the hip policy that gets us nowhere?

    P.S. - I am VERY pro-Israel and have not much more than contempt for the fuedal backwards and self destructive ways of their neighbors in the region. I'm ok for wars, as long as they are not just because a leader is too lazy to try work things out in other ways first.
  • PWT
    Bigger Thomas is the main character in the novel, 'Native Son'. My view is that Mr. Obama is Bigger Thomas and that the Dalton family is a proxy for the United States of America. However, this time, we ain't gonna give him the keys to the car.
  • PWT
    Great, I came up with an original nickname. Yea me!

    Bigger Thomas is the main character in the novel, 'Native Son'. My view is that Mr. Obama is Bigger Thomas and that the Dalton family is a proxy for the United States of America. However, this time, we ain't gonna give him the keys to the car.
  • lurxst
    Considering that the Bush family were Nazi collaborators, its expecially distasteful to hear Bush using Nazi analogies.

    Diplomacy is not appeasement, something the Bush administration has refused to understand.' Diplomacy doesn't sell tanks and bombers.

    Such a brazen reference to US politics while addressing a foreign nation is the depths of abuse of the trust of the US population.
  • President Bush has opened up a Pandora's Box in American politics. Don't get mad if the same is done to the candidate you may support in the future by the standing president.
  • Marlowecan
    The money quote in the article Joe cites is this:
    "President Bush went on foreign soil today, and committed what I consider an act of political treason: Comparing the candidate of the U.S. opposition party to appeasers of Nazi Germany..."

    As Joe notes, Democrats travelling abroad have not hesitated to criticize Bush brutally. (see Pelosi & Lantos' ill-fated mission to the Middle East to establish an "alternative Democratic foreign policy". Very very few Democrats have condemned this.

    However, to criticise Sen. Obama abroad is an "act of political treason"?

    Treason can only be performed against one's country...and is often a capital offense.

    So...to criticize Obama is now an Act of Treason for those on the Left (who have NEVER hesitated to slam the current U.S. President abroad!).

    Is Senator Obama now the United States?

    Lurxst said: "Considering that the Bush family were Nazi collaborators, its expecially distasteful to hear Bush using Nazi analogies."

    Hahaha...the BushHitler meme. Grandpa Bush served as a director for some of Thyssen's front companies in the 30s until they were seized in the war. I gather some Holocaust survivors are suing President Bush for 40 billion for his family's alleged profiting from slave labour during the war (which would be difficult as said company's were shut by the US govt). There is, BTW, no proof that Bush grandpere was ever a "Nazi collaborator". Seriously...the elevators in my apartment building are made by Thyssen...can the residents of my building be sued?

    In short: President Bush can be accused of being a Nazi freely, by Democrats at home and abroad.

    As WIll Bunch says in Philly.com: For Senator Obama to be criticized is an ACT OF "POLITICAL TREASON"!

    As Godwin's law has been broken already, I will go further with the analogy:

    For criticism of Obama to be treason, Obama must be identified with the United States of America.
    The United States is Senator Obama. Senator Obama is the United States.
    One people. One country. One Obama.

    All criticism of Obama is therefore "political treason"!
  • Marlowecan
    BTW: To be fair...from an historical and political perspective...Obama is totally right about talking with Iran and anyone else. Bush is TOTALLY wrong.

    Senator Obama probably understands that states are not monolithic. There are diverse factions in Iran, as in the US.

    For example: To continue with the Nazi analogy... At several points prior to WWII...during the Rhineland crisis...and the Sudetenland...the German High Command was in contact with Great Britain. The highest levels of the German military were prepared to overthrow Hitler and arrest all member of the SS.

    Had Great Britain shown backbone...and been willing to talk to the Oberkommand...WWII and the Holocaust would not have happened. Hitler would have been arrested and executed.

    In short: Obama is probably right on this one...Bush is probably wrong.

    (My complaint above was with the "political treason" reference...and the disturbing adulation of Obama on the Left).
  • Slamfu
    Yea, the treason metaphor was pretty lame. But then so was the comparison of dealing diplomatically with our rivals appeasement. One was done by a pundit, one was done by the president of the United States who should know better, but unfortunately does not. Considering Bush himself has done so much to point out the errors in a shoot first approach to international policy, he REALLY should know better. In fact, all I heard was:

    "My democratic successor would likely to do things radically different from the ways I've done which have made a mess of the middle east. He's obviously an idiot for not following in my footsteps and screwing up like I have. "
  • RememberNovember
    So how's it feel to be in the 28-32 percentile of Kool-Aid drinkers? Seriously,
    in Norse mythology Trolls are only active at night and turn to stone by day.


    You'll find, if you have been watching the primaries, that millions center-left , independents and Republicans have woken from wool-covered coma this administration has pulled over our eyes. We are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it. Hear that? That's the sound of change coming....in the words of Lee Iaccoca- Lead, Follow or get the F*** out the way!
  • Lit3Bolt
    I'm DLS, I have no standards for my president.

    Don't you have some Noam Chomsky books to burn, DLS?
  • Hm, he didn't name anyone and the only Senator he cited was the one he quoted, a REPUBLICAN who's been dead for almost seventy years.

    It's only an "attack on Obama" if Obama wants to accept the description of himself as being an appeaser. Does he? Really? He can certainly make his own case for or against that description. (For gradeschoolers watching this program, here's the translation: "You mean ME? I didn't say it was you. I am not! Looks like a duck... Am not! " Repeat, ad nauseum. )

    Otherwise it's just more noise as we enter the mindless-screaming pahse of the campaign cycle.
  • CStanley
    Marlowe, I'm just curious- do you feel that Obama was right the first time when he clearly said that he'd hold highest level diplomatic talks with Iran without precondition, or do you agree with the position the way his staff and proxies are currently reframing it, to talk to Iran only after they agree to disband their nuclear program (which, curiously, is precisely the position of the Bush administration?)
  • daveinboca
    When you have a presidential candidate like Biden who basically disqualified himself by his HUGE STUPID mouth using the BS word, I think Bush is on to something.

    Especially since The Speaker of the House disqualified herself from any serious commentary on the issue by going IN A BURKA to the terrorist-wannabe Stick-Insect Assad, whose country is aiding and abetting terrorists in Lebanon & Gaza right now as I write this.

    Obambi is a babe in the woods on foreign policy---a simpleton without bearings who shouldn't be trusted with grown-up toys. Let him season until he gets his mouth & brain in synch with NATIONAL SECURITY as a minimal concept.
  • JSpencer
    I see DLS is in Prime Grade A troll mode today - which is good for a chuckle, but is a little too predictable for more than that. As for GWB succumbing to Godwins Law? It's only surprising this hasn't come sooner and more often considering how low the bar has been placed in recent years. I expect we will see a desperate wallowing in that sort of thing over the course of the general election campaign though. And god forbid Obama would neglect to embrace all the strategies that have failed to work so far!
  • lurxst
    Marlowecan is correct, collaborator is perhaps too strong a label. Grandpa Bush simply was the money handler for the actual Nazi collaborator, Thyssen, acting in his capacity as director of Union Banking Corporation to help hide their assets. At least until Union Banking Corporation's assets were seized by the US government in October, 1942.

    http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/thefamily/...

    1942, a full year into the war and Prescott Bush was still helping Thyssen hide assets to protect Thyssen should Germany lose. All the other big American corporations had dumped their dealings with the controlling German party and their supporters.

    I don't buy into the belief that corporations are just amoral faceless entities. They are run by people. People like Prescott Bush. So if there is a more appropriate term than collaborator I am open for suggestions. Enabler? Facilitator? Bag man?

    I am not usually a big proponent of nazi arguments on the web but I have to stick a pin in blatant hypocrisy.

    I like all the arguments that somehow try to whitewash W's utter stupidity in this matter by holding that citizens and presidents are held to equal standards.

    News Flash: We aren't.
  • AustinRoth
    So, now the simple fact of holding and stating a viewpoint, appeasement does not work, is somehow a 'new low amid low politics'.

    God, talk about thin-skinned.
  • DLS
    Yep, the kiddies are being silly, right on cue...
  • DLS
    (and I'm far, far more kind than I ever need be about the kids' misbehavior)
  • jdledell
    Bush's comments about not talking with Iran and subsequently supported by McCain simply do not make sense logically or historically. In fact Sec of Defense Robert Gates yesterday made a speech(see WP link below) arguing for dialogue with Iran. Good Grief, Nixon went to China to meet with Mao while the genocidal Cultural Revolution was in progress. Nixon negotiated with the North Vietnamese while they were killing Americans, Eisenhower negotiated with the Chinese over Korea after their military assault push the Americans back south in Korea. Nixon negotiated with the Russians while they were supplying N. Vietnam with arms. Reagan negotiated with the Iranian mullahs and gave them weapons for cash for the Contras. Reagan also negotiated arms agreements with our enemy USSR.

    This list could on and on but the idea that one does not negotiate with enemies is stupid. Hell, just think what might have happened if Kennedy did not negotiate with the USSR over the Cuban missles - remember it was a tit for tat with our removing missles from Turkey.
  • jdledell
    Here is the Washington Post link I forgot.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
  • HappySurge
    I'm so sorry. I never heard that before even though I know about Native Son.
  • Obambi is a babe in the woods on foreign policy---a simpleton without bearings who shouldn't be trusted with grown-up toys.


    Dave,
    Pop quiz, who said this:
    "See the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over."

    And for extra credit:
    "One of the things I would do if I were president would be to sit the Shiites and the Sunnis down and say, 'Stop the bullshit,'"
  • runasim
    AR said:
    "So, now the simple fact of holding and stating a viewpoint, appeasement does not work, is somehow a 'new low amid low politics'.
    God, talk about thin-skinned."

    Since NO ONE is suggesting appeasement and NO ONE is supporitng appeasement,, while EVERYONE agrees about appeasement.
    What, exactly is your complaint?,
  • CStanley
    The complaint as I said in another thread, runasim, is that if the shoe doesn't fit in terms of Bush's comment and Obama's policies, then why all the outrage? If everyone agrees that appeasement is bad, then 'everyone' is exempt from the critiicsm that Bush made. I think there's a legitimate basis for saying that Bush criticized a caricature of a specific type of diplomacy, and it's fair enough for Obama supporters to assert that they do not believe that Obama favors policies of appeasement.

    On the flip side, though, Bush's policy toward diplomatic talks is being completely misrepresented as well. Everyone here breathlessly decries his policy of "NOT TALKING TO OUR ENEMIES" which ignores the fact that Bush's administration has negotiated with many of our enemies, including NK as well as...wait for it....Iran. We were part of multi-party talks to work toward agreements on regional security for Iraq, at Iraq's request, with Iran also in attendence. What everyone ignores when they give blanket condemnation for Bush's policies is that he has never said that we don't negotiate with our enemies or even that we will not negotiate with Iran- it's just specific negotiations that have been put on hold until or unless Iran will agree to certain preconditions. So both sides are guilty of completely mischaracterizing the others' position* and then arguing against the caricature of it instead of the actual position.

    *Of course I think there's some reason for confusion on what Obama's stance actually is, because as I noted above, he clearly stated in the past that he'd meet with Ahmadinejad without precondition, and now he's reversed that and claims that he was misrepresented even though it's all right there in the debate video- and his Democratic opponents criticized him for it then and he apparently didn't see the need to set the record straight- until now, when he's either reconsidered and changed his mind or noticed that it will be a liability for him in the general election if he doesn't change his position. Curiously, his newly stated position is not much different than the Bush administrations- that we will hold high level negotiations with Ahmedinajad only if they will agree to stop their nuclear program.
  • runasim
    CStanley,
    I answered this elsewhere, and I' don't have the energy to go throudh tthe whole rationale over again.

    The issue of preconditions is a whole separate topic,
    I understand the rationale, but I can't help but notice that they are not producing the desired results, not with Iran and not with Hamas.
blog comments powered by Disqus
© 2005-2009 The Moderate Voice | Site design by Elegant Themes | Site customization, hosting, and security by Enxit Group, LLC