Are you saying that we shoud just accept perceptions (like the misrepreentsion of Obma's 'clinging to guns” remark) instead of pushing back with an element of truth and intelligence?

Nope to the actual question–I was not saying that, and never would–but I completely disagree with your parenthetical. Don't fool yourself. It wasn't in the least misrepresented or misperceived–Obama said what he said and he said it in the context noted to the audience noted, and the meaning was clear. “We've got to help those poor misguided idjits who don't think like us.” Way to go for those hearts and minds!

I'll repeat: Obama will not win those votes by insulting those voters. And I'll repeat again: This applies regardless of whether or not his insulting statements are true or false, so side discussions about whether rural Pennsylvanians are in fact God-blinded bigoted gunclingers or not are irrelevant. What counts is that they mightily resent being CALLED God-blinded bigoted gunclingers, and aren't likely to vote for the person calling them that.

Of course, doing the same thing in reverse would be the worst possible reaction.

I'm not recommending that elections should be used to prosecute our problems.
I do, believe, however that it is necessary to acknowledge them . We must find a diplomatic, civil language with which we can bring all the stuff under our rug out into sunshine. That's a tall order, but it's frustrating to see how everyone avoids it, denies it, or uses it to political advantage —without trying at all.
The result is, I believe encouragement to continue as before.

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Maybe not the nomination, but he now has six months to really work and bring the working class voters into his fold. Even if racism is a factor in a WV loss, I don't think you can claim this everywhere where Obama's lost the WC vote. I think it's more of a feeling among those voters that he's not speaking to them.

I was looking at a map of county-by-county wins last night, and was surprised to see how many counties went to Clinton vs. Obama. The general election is largely winner-take-all, and if a similar map shows up then, I don't think it will be Obama in the White House.

Are you saying that we shoud just accept perceptions (like the misrepreentsion of Obma's 'clinging to guns” remark) instead of pushing back with an element of truth and intelligence?
That's the most depressing hope killing proposition I've heard yet.
That implies that elections have no real meaning, and that they will always go to the biggest showman and the biggest successful lie.
GAWD!
_____________

“I don't hold one individual wearing a stupid t-shirt as representative of anything much without further evidence. “

The point is that he was surrounded by onlookers and unembarrassed to do this in front of TV camers. That means something!
It means that it's perfectly okay in some parts of the country.

Well, it shouldn't be okay with anyone.
'Oh well, let's look for proof,' is just another way of sweeping it under the rug.

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That said, I don't hold one individual wearing a stupid t-shirt as representative of anything much without further evidence. While race issues are playing a role in this campaign, I haven't yet seen evidence that it's more than about 15% of the electorate. Yes, it has made a difference in various outcomes, but that must be put in the context of the (large) majority of Clinton supporters voting for completely different reasons.

Well, as many others have likely already pointed out across the blogosphere by now, some large part of this nation has been doing exactly that for the last seven-some years. It just wasn't Obama involved. Given the players, I sense a major double standard there.

Once the line has been pushed on Obama's behalf that “Only dumb people vote for Hillary”, they can expect to have a lot of trouble subsequently getting those so labelled to vote for Obama, instead of for someone else who hasn't blatantly insulted them. (Do note that applies regardless of the truth or falsity of the insult.)

And that damage is done already. It was done when Obama made that remark about “clinging to guns and God” to a group of rich white San Francisco liberals. All since has been salt in the wound, but Obama his own self made the first cut unassisted.

Challenging what is wrong in our country,, small town and big ciiy alike, does not mean confrontation or street brawls.
However, we have to sop sweeping things under the rug and politically pandering .to the worst of intsincts.

Language means a lot, as even Obama's uninteded slip demonstrated,
Talking firmly but diplomatically is a lost art, one that we should resurrect and use, rather than resorting to negative attacks and sniping.
It's possible to get a message across without creating an Axis of Evil, for pete's sake!

As I'm not a politician, my sometimes careless words are not going to affect elections.
I expect people in leadership positions to do better than I can, not worse.

Having lived in small town, inbred white Anerica, I know exactly what i'm saying.
A little truth telling shouldn't make anyone faint.

A man in WV was showing off a T-shirt with Obama represented as a monkey!!
Should we just pretend that sort of thing doesn't happen?
Should we ,as a nation, pander to it?

There are issues here larger than winning elections!
That they are being addressed by political sniping is contemptible, IMO.

And she may be waiting for '12 after Obama gets clobbered by Reagan Democrats. Tully is correct. They do have very long memories, and “bitter clinging” plus Wright popping out again like a cuckoo clock could make Obama a McGovern type loser.

I'm waiting for Gee-mah to endorse. That'll be the kiss of death.

Let's check Associated Press, shall we?

Highly favorable demographics helped Hillary Rodham Clinton rack up one of her largest victory margins of the 2008 Democratic primary season in West Virginia. The exit polls recorded several demographic extremes among groups with a strong history of solidly backing Clinton:

- And the West Virginia electorate was among the bottom five Democratic primaries in terms of income, with around 55 percent reporting 2007 family income of less than $50,000.

Shorter version: “Poor dumb white hicks vote for Hillary.” But maybe it would be more politic to stick with Obama's own description of them as people “who cling to guns, religion and antipathy to people who aren’t like them”?

You can quibble about the euphemisms but the message still comes through loud and clear. News flash: this is obviously a large part of the Democratic base. You don't win the White House by dissing them. And once dissed, they have very long memories. As I said, it's going to be amusing watching those outreach efforts.

Whether the impressions that have been created by the candidates and the media within the voting public have any basis in reality is very debatable. That they are unlikely to change between now and November is not. All three have been tagged, fairly or unfairly, and must work for the Presidency based on these early-formed impressions.

If I may quote StockBoySF from a comment in a previous post:

“Obama has won 12 (yes twelve) states by the same percentage (or more) that Hillary won tonight (at least as I write this- with some 92% of the WV vote in). Some of these states are pretty significant, too, including Colorado (Obama got 67%), Kansas (74%), Minnesota (66%), Alaska (75%) and Idaho (80%).”

You say “resounding victory” and “smashing defeat” as if Hillary went for the jugular last night and forced Obama out of the race. Needless to say, I think the general consensus is that it didn't much matter. From my point of view, the results just seem to show where Obama has work to do come November.

And as far as “trotting around as the self-proclaimed general election candidate”, if you rewind the clock about a year, it seems we have a role reversal in who is doing the trotting.

Obama does has a problem with a influential portion of the electorate. He may or may not be able to overcome their resounding disapproval of him. But Senator Obama has been exemplary in not becoming bitter or angry at those voters. He acknowledged his problem and is trying to deal with it.

That's all he can do,

Those 'dumb hicks” have been called dumb hicks only by Obama's opponents, not by Obama. So, in the ineterests of credibility, I suggest you direct your remarks at those who coined the phrase.

“Dumb' is as much a part of the electorate as is racial prejudice..
Now that's something real, not maufactured, that oculd be discussed to better effect.