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	<title>Comments on: Two Sides to John McCain&#8217;s Land Swap Deals</title>
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	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/</link>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136174</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 21:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136174</guid>
		<description>An EIS is essential any time protected land is to be unprotected. McCain deserves for this to haunt him, as yet another example of managing public resources for private gain. If the trade is sound, why fear the EIS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An EIS is essential any time protected land is to be unprotected. McCain deserves for this to haunt him, as yet another example of managing public resources for private gain. If the trade is sound, why fear the EIS?</p>
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		<title>By: blaeloch</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136173</link>
		<dc:creator>blaeloch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 17:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136173</guid>
		<description>I was involved in fighting this legislation for 6 years, and no matter the ecological issues involved, the bottom line was that citizens wanted the full process, with environmental analysis and formalized public involvement (under Nat&#039;l Environmental Policy Act), that was sidestepped--indeed, almost always is--in legislation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain claims he listened to and worked with people on all sides--but ultimately he didn&#039;t respond to the overwhelming majority that opposed the bill. For six years. And to the point that, when he called a &quot;town hall&quot; meeting to mollify citizens (who&#039;d asked for a field hearing), 600 people showed up (McCain waived the fire marshall&#039;s regulations because the h.s. gym was overflowing). 97 percent of those who were allowed to speak were against the legislation. They wanted an environmental impact statement--the same process a non-connected person who can&#039;t afford lobbyists would need to go through if they want to do an exchange with the government. Many of us will never understand his stubborn refusal to respond to that desire--he probably would be a hero in those towns (all other issues aside) had he done so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was involved in fighting this legislation for 6 years, and no matter the ecological issues involved, the bottom line was that citizens wanted the full process, with environmental analysis and formalized public involvement (under Nat&#39;l Environmental Policy Act), that was sidestepped&#8211;indeed, almost always is&#8211;in legislation.</p>
<p>McCain claims he listened to and worked with people on all sides&#8211;but ultimately he didn&#39;t respond to the overwhelming majority that opposed the bill. For six years. And to the point that, when he called a &#8220;town hall&#8221; meeting to mollify citizens (who&#39;d asked for a field hearing), 600 people showed up (McCain waived the fire marshall&#39;s regulations because the h.s. gym was overflowing). 97 percent of those who were allowed to speak were against the legislation. They wanted an environmental impact statement&#8211;the same process a non-connected person who can&#39;t afford lobbyists would need to go through if they want to do an exchange with the government. Many of us will never understand his stubborn refusal to respond to that desire&#8211;he probably would be a hero in those towns (all other issues aside) had he done so.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136172</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136172</guid>
		<description>CS, I do agree that a key piece of a habitat we wish to preserve could have a value far greater than its commercial value, so the negotiation is critical and must be fair. This is being done all over the country with conservation easements and other protective mechanisms being negotiated according to the value to the city/county/state in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS, I do agree that a key piece of a habitat we wish to preserve could have a value far greater than its commercial value, so the negotiation is critical and must be fair. This is being done all over the country with conservation easements and other protective mechanisms being negotiated according to the value to the city/county/state in question.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136171</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 18:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136171</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in agreement that this should be looked at, but GD I wonder if you&#039;d agree with me (and I think the point that Jazz was making in the penultimate paragraph) that it&#039;s pretty hard to equilibrate the actual monetary value of those two different types of property. The fact that a piece of property is landlocked within a national park means that it&#039;s commercial value is extremely low, yet it&#039;s value in filling in the missing puzzle piece to the park is quite high. Monetarily though since real estate price is based on how commercially exploitable a property is, it&#039;s hard to measure the one against the other.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think your suggestion of having an experienced real estate broker involved is a very good one, BTW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m in agreement that this should be looked at, but GD I wonder if you&#39;d agree with me (and I think the point that Jazz was making in the penultimate paragraph) that it&#39;s pretty hard to equilibrate the actual monetary value of those two different types of property. The fact that a piece of property is landlocked within a national park means that it&#39;s commercial value is extremely low, yet it&#39;s value in filling in the missing puzzle piece to the park is quite high. Monetarily though since real estate price is based on how commercially exploitable a property is, it&#39;s hard to measure the one against the other.</p>
<p>I think your suggestion of having an experienced real estate broker involved is a very good one, BTW.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136170</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136170</guid>
		<description>I have no problem with a trade that protects wild lands by trading it for something already adjacent to developed land, but in keeping with my wish to see America run more like a business, these deals should be negotiated by a tough real estate negotiator. None of us would offer an even trade for land with 120 times less value. Maybe 60 for one? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In general, the giveaway of federal lands should be a crime. Here&#039;s a little personal experience with that. My Aunt Martha had a huge wooded property in California. She allowed a logging company to harvest trees from a portion of her property. She got to dictate the manner in which it was taken (selectively) and was paid very very well for the trees they took. Meanwhile, right next door, the U.S. Forest Service was not only allowing the same company to take trees for free, the Forest Service built the roads, allowed them to clear cut it, allowed them to leave their trash and lost a huge amount of money. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s a perfect example of managing our public resources for private gain. I know exactly how much the timber was worth, and what concessions a lumber company would make in order to get at it. But as far as our federal government is concerned, it&#039;s OK to just give our public property away, and even spend taxpayer money to facilitate the taking of our public property. Yeah, those trees are MINE, as much as anyone&#039;s. If they&#039;re gonna be offered up, then first, I want us to have a choice in the matter, and second, I want someone who works for me (say a USFS negotiator)  to insist on the best possible deal we can get. To fight for it like it&#039;s his own money.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So, if McCain&#039;s deal was a shabby giveaway of public property, then may the flames of his pandering consume him. If not, then let the issue subside. But this may or may not be just dirty politics as usual (as Neocon suggests). It may or may not incite my righteous rage, depending on the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with a trade that protects wild lands by trading it for something already adjacent to developed land, but in keeping with my wish to see America run more like a business, these deals should be negotiated by a tough real estate negotiator. None of us would offer an even trade for land with 120 times less value. Maybe 60 for one? </p>
<p>In general, the giveaway of federal lands should be a crime. Here&#39;s a little personal experience with that. My Aunt Martha had a huge wooded property in California. She allowed a logging company to harvest trees from a portion of her property. She got to dictate the manner in which it was taken (selectively) and was paid very very well for the trees they took. Meanwhile, right next door, the U.S. Forest Service was not only allowing the same company to take trees for free, the Forest Service built the roads, allowed them to clear cut it, allowed them to leave their trash and lost a huge amount of money. </p>
<p>That&#39;s a perfect example of managing our public resources for private gain. I know exactly how much the timber was worth, and what concessions a lumber company would make in order to get at it. But as far as our federal government is concerned, it&#39;s OK to just give our public property away, and even spend taxpayer money to facilitate the taking of our public property. Yeah, those trees are MINE, as much as anyone&#39;s. If they&#39;re gonna be offered up, then first, I want us to have a choice in the matter, and second, I want someone who works for me (say a USFS negotiator)  to insist on the best possible deal we can get. To fight for it like it&#39;s his own money.</p>
<p>So, if McCain&#39;s deal was a shabby giveaway of public property, then may the flames of his pandering consume him. If not, then let the issue subside. But this may or may not be just dirty politics as usual (as Neocon suggests). It may or may not incite my righteous rage, depending on the details.</p>
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		<title>By: runasim</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136169</link>
		<dc:creator>runasim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136169</guid>
		<description>Whether these deals are good or bad,  when there is a continuing connection between  someone  in governemtn and loobyists or  beneficiareis of legislaion,&lt;br&gt;it erodes trust in government.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The lack of trust is poisoning our well right now.&lt;br&gt;Restoring trust iis more important than  the particulars of any  single occurrence or legislation, IMO.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think it unfortuante that McCain didn&#039;t consider the importance of appearances in that regard,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether these deals are good or bad,  when there is a continuing connection between  someone  in governemtn and loobyists or  beneficiareis of legislaion,<br />it erodes trust in government.</p>
<p>The lack of trust is poisoning our well right now.<br />Restoring trust iis more important than  the particulars of any  single occurrence or legislation, IMO.  </p>
<p>I think it unfortuante that McCain didn&#39;t consider the importance of appearances in that regard,</p>
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		<title>By: Neocon</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/comment-page-1/#comment-136168</link>
		<dc:creator>Neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19478/two-sides-to-john-mccains-land-swap-deals/#comment-136168</guid>
		<description>Have you noticed that both Barak Obama and McCain are going to run the  same type of campaign?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let their minions call out the other guy, dig up the trash and do the trash talking while they themselves stand back, condemn it and try to pretend to move on?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;McCain is a quick study.  He saw what trash talking has done to Hillary and is trying the Obama approach.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Gonna be one strange election this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you noticed that both Barak Obama and McCain are going to run the  same type of campaign?</p>
<p>Let their minions call out the other guy, dig up the trash and do the trash talking while they themselves stand back, condemn it and try to pretend to move on?</p>
<p>McCain is a quick study.  He saw what trash talking has done to Hillary and is trying the Obama approach.</p>
<p>Gonna be one strange election this year.</p>
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