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On “The Real McCain”

I need to start this post off by saying that it will not even appear to be biased. I favor John McCain and will probably vote for him come fall.

I say this, because I want to respond to Jill Miller Zimon’s post where she interviews Cliff Schecter on his book on John McCain. There has been a familiar theme about how McCain has become a tool of the far right and is not the same man that he was in 2000. While I do agree he has made some changes that I have not liked, I think that some of this stems from seeing something in McCain that was never there in the first place, something that I think is happening with Independents and Obama now.

Here is the first question and answer:

JMZ: You argue on behalf of former McCain supporters who should be able to realize that McCain isn’t what he once was. Who, then, is the alternative and why?

CS: Well. There’s always, “What we have versus what we’d like to have.” I’m an Obama supporter and he has a lot of appeal to Independents. But he hasn’t done it the way McCain did it – by attacking his own party in big speeches. Obama has done it by standing up, not by splitting. Obama talks about rising above partisanship and reaching out to all people on all sides and getting past the muck where politics has gotten so nasty. Obama says, I’m going to talk to you like an adult. And that’s what McCain had called “straight talk” – but he hasn’t given us much of that [this election cycle.]

One example is with the gas tax . It doesn’t do any good – and Obama is telling us that. But McCain and Clinton go along with the idea [of a moratorium over the summer] – they pander. [Obama’s telling us like it is] is why he has appeal beyond the Democratic party.

Michael Bloomberg could have an interesting run. He maybe could have changed the outcomes. Chuck Hagel could have been a compelling candidate on being honest – though on Iraq more so than in the social issues.

So, McCain gets demoted for speaking out against his party. I thought that might be considered a good thing, a claim of independence. As to Obama, yes, he has talked about coming together, which sounds nice, but he hasn’t really shown much independence from the Democrats in the way that McCain has. I do agree with Schecter that McCain’s support of the gas tax holiday was pure pandering and he should be ashamed of himself for considering it.

Next question:

JMZ: Is it McCain’s fault that he has changed, or ours? That is, if he still possesses an acceptable political skill set and his changes reflect what he believes voters want, how much flak does he deserve, and why? Because isn’t it, after all, our system too?

CS: The Republican Party might take some blame for this. It’s a very inhospitable place for anyone to the left of them. There’s been a rash of retirements and [others] leaving the party. There’s been an increasing influence from the far right on all these issues – economics, the war…

But if you are courageous, you stand up and fight. McCain has modeled himself after Barry Goldwater but Goldwater got so sick of the Christian right to the point where he said, “I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.”

McCain had options in 2000. From 2000-2004, he was getting himself ready for an Independent run. He approached [Democrat John] Kerry to be on the ticket. These seem like things he could have done to keep his principles. The Democratic party in 2000 would have been perfect place for McCain.

It’s not our fault. We’re the voters. If his arguments are so out of whack with the GOP, he should be telling them something. Maybe he should have changed parties.We look at people who make these kinds of choices as heroes, but at some point you decide: no free pass, because he sold out to the worst in his party. He made his bed.

Where can I start? First, there is a dream of many centrists of some great person that could run an Independent campaign and win the Presidency. The thing is, it hasn’t happened in our history and probably won’t ever happen. Yes, many people loved McCain in 2000, but then Theodore Roosevelt also was well-loved, and didn’t win in 1912. The problem with Independents is that they have little or no organization behind them and the two major parties are able to crush them. Ross Perot won nearly 20 percent of the vote in 1992, which was impressive, but he didn’t win even with all his money. As for McCain as a Democrat, I also think this was a dream with no basis in reality. McCain has never been anything else but a conservative, his history has shown this. Would they really tolerate a pro-life, budget hawk? I kind of doubt it.

Another thought: when Jesse Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota in 1998, it was very hard for him to get things done. Since he was a member of a political party that had little to no seats in the Legislature, he was overrun by both parties, that might not have had the governor’s office, but did have power in the House and Senate. He lacked an infrastructure to get things done.

Schecter also seems to blame McCain and the GOP for who McCain is today, leaving the voters innocent. McCain in his view should have switched parties to send the GOP a message. However, in a democracy, the voters and wider public do have the power and responsibility to deal with their leaders. We are far from helpless sheep. Lots of former Republicans have either switched parties or become Independents because of the party’s rightward tilt and it has done…nothing. There would be a lot of Republicans who would be happy if McCain left, they would not be wondering how they could steer towards the center.

But this also brings up a point about the role of voters in our nation. Schecter places the onus of change on the politicians. It is up to McCain to be the brave and courageous one, not us. The problem with many Independents is that they don’t hold themselves accountable or as agents of change- that’s the politician’s job.

But the thing is, it’s our job too. What if some of those former McCainiacs had organized in the way that the Religious Right did, acting as a pressure group and demanding change from McCain and the wider GOP? That is something that I have done over the years with groups like Log Cabin Republicans and Republicans for Environmental Protection. But most people don’t want to get their hands dirty in politics. They want a candidate they can fall in love with. In 2000, many fell for McCain. Many of these people projected their loves and hates on to him and were surprised when reality set in. They were shocked when they realized he was a Republican and not the raging moderate or liberal they thought he was.

I think the same thing is going on with Obama. Many people are projecting their hopes and fears onto Obama and will be surprised when they find out he was a Democrat after all.

Now, if Romney or someone else had been the presumptive nominee, I would not consider voting for the GOP. I wanted a Republican who would be willing to work with Democrats as McCain has done. I wanted a Republican who cares about global climate change. I wanted a Republican with a more sensible foreign and military policy. McCain fits all of this. I don’t agree with him on all the issues, (such as taxes and abortion) but I am willing to support him. But I know that he is a Republican. A Republican that has worked with Democrats, but a Republican nonetheless.

I’m not interested in falling in love with a candidate. When you do that, you end up setting yourself up for a hard fall. I do want someone who is going to get things done. For me, that’s McCain. For others, it might be Obama. Even if Obama wins (and that is very, very likely), he will not be the savior some Independents make him out to be. He will fall short for some people, for not being as “apolitical” as they had hoped. He will be a liberal Democratic President trying to do the best he can to lead a country of 300 million people. But I think there will be a lot of Independents that will be disappointed and heartbroken again.

  • GeorgeSorwell
    You don't seem to like what the Republican Party has become. But you keep looking for excuses--however tortured--to keep voting for them.
  • Thanks for this post, Dennis. As I wrote, I have no horse in this race - McCain or Schecter. I'm glad that what Schecter had to say is provocative though, since McCain is in fact going to be one of the two candidates for president! Thanks again.
  • DLS
    "There has been a familiar theme about how McCain has become a tool of the far right and is not the same man that he was in 2000."

    *** FLAT EARTH *** And water flows uphill, too...
  • CStanley
    Thanks, Dennis. This provides a much needed balance, IMO. I have no problem with anyone who just doesn't agree with McCain, but the misrepresentations drive me batty.
  • JSpencer
    One important difference to consider when looking at McCain vs. either Democrat candidate has to do with matters relating to the environment. Obama hits the ground running here compared to McCain. Their respective records can be seen at the League of Conservation Voters: http://lcv.org/voterguide/ Given the great importance of making environmental issues a priority, there is really no contest in my opinion.
  • DennisMN
    Jill, thanks. Know that the post was not directed against you or anything. And thanks for sharing the post even if I don't agree. We need to know everything about the candidates.
  • DennisMN
    George,

    I don't think I am looking for excuses. I don't like what the GOP has become, you are correct. But I don't think the answer is to leave the party, at least not now. Many have left and the party has only grown more conservative, not less. I also don't think I am a good fit in Democratic party. I don't hate Dems, I just respectfully disagree. I think I can make a change by standing up within the party and sharing my views which is what I have done.

    As for voting for the GOP, I think you assume too much about me. I didn't vote for W. in 2004 because of some his stances. You shouldn't assume that just because I am in the party, that I just vote for anyone with an R behind their name. If McCain or Giuliani wasn't the nominee, I would probably not vote Republican this year because I didn't agree with the other candidates.

    So, yes I don't like what the party has become, but I want to change it and not just walk away and let the far right win.
  • Dennis - no prob at all. I think these comments back and forth are a good fleshing out esp. for those of us who really have only a passing familiarity with the arguments for and against McCain.
  • joegandelman
    Dennis is great at taking an issue and presenting a serious take on it and conducting a highly respectful debate. My only complaint with him is that I'd wish he'd post more of his great stuff. A lot of times I read his posts and he makes me change my mind on something or change my perception because he addresses the reasonable parts of our brains.
  • lurxst
    Going into the general election, we can expect to see more scrutiny of McCain, finally. I will admit that he was a much more attractive candidate to the independent 8 years ago. He has made a lot of compromises in the sake of political expediency over the last 8 years to try and retain some hope of one last shot at the presidency. Unfortunately he has thrown in his lot with the travesty of an administration and the party that enabled it that we have suffered for 8 years. He is lockstep republican in something like 88 percent of his votes. Will he change once he is president and get more mavericky?

    He also has a big enough closet that the Obama campaign will have no problem picking out skeletons without having to appear too negative. If you were to go alphabetically I can think of at least 2 that start with K.

    I can't wait for their first debate.
  • mikkel
    As someone that has followed McCain quite a bit over the last few years I'm still confused on how he is being misrepresented when it's pointed out how much he's changed.

    McCain has shown some extreme confusion about basic foreign policy matters (ex: Shiite and Sunni groups, thought Petraeus was Centcom not just Iraq commander, saying we needed to put stuff in "Yugoslavia") and has also tried to flat out deny several things that he said even when they were on tape...let alone some quick reversals on policies without much explanation. I think at present there is a huge gap between perception and his current platform.
  • GeorgeSorwell
    Dennis--

    I'm only going by what you write here.

    I don't think winning in 2008 will motivate the Republican Party to change.

    And if John McCain were to win, it could only be with independents voting for him. Don't you think that after the fact, some of them will be surprised when they find out he is a Republican after all.
  • He will be a liberal Democratic President trying to do the best he can to lead a country of 300 million people.


    Wouldn't that be great? I doubt it though. Obama is pretty tame when it comes to ideology.
  • runasim
    I don't know what to think. Maybe McCain will explain himself better as time goes on.
    Just one area of my puzzlement is Immigration. He has backed away from the bill he cosponsored. Does that reflect a change of conviction or a change in political assessment?
    It seems to me he's definitely changing, but what is he changing to?

    I don't really understand the statements about Independents. How can they organize into anything but single/limited issue groups and still be Independent.? What platform would they have?
  • CStanley
    Just one area of my puzzlement is Immigration. He has backed away from the bill he cosponsored. Does that reflect a change of conviction or a change in political assessment?

    He has stated pretty clearly that it's the latter- that he still believes in the wisdom (almost necessity) of comprehensive immigration reform but he sees the political reality- that people understandably don't trust the govt to really follow through with border security as part of a broader approach. Since the resistance based on that was what prevented passage of his bill, he's now saying he heard the message and he'll push for borders to be secured first and then move on to the rest after the border states certify that border passage is controlled.
  • runasim
    "Just one area of my puzzlement is Immigration. He has backed away from the bill he cosponsored. Does that reflect a change of conviction or a change in political assessment?
    ******************************
    "He has stated pretty clearly that it's the latter.
    ***************************************
    ***************************************
    That is often the pattern with most politicians.
    First they state pretty clearly one thing, and then they state pretty clearly something quite contradictory..

    Those who want to see McCain elected put instant and automatic faith in his statements, at every twist and turn of his road. Simultaneously, they are vociferous about placing doubt and suspicion in the statements of other candidates who stand in his way.
    That's politics and it often crosses over into being political campaigning.

    It doesn't work that way for poeple who are not on McCain's election 'team'.
    I don't think I could vote for him in any case, but I'm trying to be as fair as I can.
    The fairh of McCain's fans is not transferrable to me. People like I will need more time to get a sense of his vision and approach to problem solving as well as politics.

    To repeat: the faih of McCain's fans is not transferrable to others on a say so basis.
    Those others need more time, quite a lot more time.
  • CStanley
    That's fine, runasim, but of course the same is true of the faith people are placing in Obama- who has a much shorter track record to base any faith or trust on than McCain does.

    And there's also the fact that in the case of his immigration 'shift', I don't see accepting his firm statement now as true as resting on faith. If his change is due to an understanding of the political reality, then it is axiomatic to me that he will in fact act in the way he now says he will- there is nothing that predicts a politicians actual future actions better than getting a read on how THEY read the political landscape. That's what they live and die by- so there's just no logical reason to suspect that they won't do everything possible to deliver on a promise that's made on that basis. I'd be more troubled if he were saying that his current agreement to secure the borders first were due to some kind of epiphany about the wisdom of doing it that way- I wouldn't believe him in that case. But when he's willing to piss off the hardcore conservative base by phrasing it like this "I'll give you the damn fence", it doesn't seem like pandering to me, but rather a frank acknowledgement that he's willing to do what he has to do based on the political reality.
  • runasim
    CS:"That's fine, runasim, but of course the same is true of the faith people are placing in Obama....
    -------------------------------

    We are again, on totally different pages.

    That some of Obama's fans are guilty of the same thing says nothing about how I or other people assess McCain. Two errors are just two errors.

    Expanding on why you have faith in McCain and even channeling his rationale doesn't add a thing to the discussion. It only prolongs it on the same old circular race track.

    Then, too, I react badly to hard sell techniques. The harder someone pushes, the more likely I am to push back.

    Not wishing to be rude, I'll take the time to explain why I'm getting off this train.

    I do support Obama, but unlike you, I see his flaws as well as his assets.
    When I think he's wrong, I say so. I've expressed disappointment in him on several occasions.
    I don't accept the politics of painting anyone as perfect or anyone as totally disreputable.

    I support, first and foremost, Obama's main ideas rather than Obama, the man, or .Obama the politician or Obama the Democrat. How much he will accomplish,remains to be seen, but he is by far the best of the three to get anything done along the lines that I would like this country to go. That's my judgment.

    We are simply on very different philosophical tracks,
  • CStanley
    So why do you make assumptions that I am less able to do the same with regard to McCain? You can't pronounce that you and I are on different philosophical tracks when you don't know what philosophical track I'm on- you don't have enough evidence about that, only your own presumptions.

    This is what I find hard to stomach- the presumptions that no intelligent and intellectually honest person could look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. You see Obama as the best person to take the country in the direction that you want it to go, and I see that McCain is the best person to take it in the direction that I think it would be best for us to go. Can't we respectfully disagree about that? I apologize, BTW, if it seemed that I was lumping you in with people who support Obama on faith- that wasn't what I meant by that statement, I was only pointing out that this type of support for candidates is always present among some voters. And then I tried to explain why I dispute your assertion that my position on McCain's immigration stance is of that sort. I don't get your dismissal of that as 'not adding to the discussion'; I find it rather absurd that you can mischaracterize me and then refuse to consider my defense on the grounds that it adds nothing to the discussion.
  • The interview was very good, but I'm pretty sure Schecter is terribly wrong about a few things. 1) Iraq war. Is not yet a failure. Only leaving too soon would make it a failure -- "all" we have to do is stay, and continue to support whatever elected gov't the Iraqis elect, and within two or three election cycles, Iraq will become a functioning Arab Muslim democracy -- something that doesn't quite exist in the world today.
    Had we stayed in S. Vietnam, as we did stay in S. Korea, Japan, and Germany (and are still there....), S. Vietnam would have become another E. Asian Tiger, with democracy and more human rights than the boat people faced after the Dems voted to cut funding and N. Viet commies decided to violate their signed Paris Peace Accords.

    Those who want Freedom and Democracy to succeed in Iraq, resulting in a normal imperfect, too corrupt, gov't that includes hypocrites and panderers, will be supporting McCain.

    It probably helps that the Maliki gov't is winning against Sadr now, so claims of anti-war folk that Iraq "is an absolute failure" look wrong. Whether it was worth the cost is a totally different question, and if an anti-war person switches from "it's a failure" to "it wasn't worth it", that's implicitly saying it's not a failure.

    2) Abortion -- McCain has an excellent pro-life voting record. His 1999 SF comment is certainly confusing/ mushy:

    "I'd love to see a point where it is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary," McCain told the Chronicle in an article published Friday. "But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations."

    I wish the pro-life folk were more interested in promoting adoption, especially cross-racial adoption by whites of unwanted black babies.

    For any candidate, the voting record, not the speech, should be the main thing. Obama's voting record is far-left support for partial birth abortion, abortion on demand. I think it's also for minors to get abortions without informing the parents, but I'm not yet sure.

    3) McCain is wrong, and Obama is better, on gas taxes -- to reduce demand, gas tax increases are better. Certainly it's better than higher income taxes. BUT, to say it's "nothing" is just wrong. It's a clear indication of where Al Gore and the Greenies have failed: action to reduce CO2 means higher taxes/prices, and "doing something" means the voters have to pay more. The Dems haven't been willing to be honest about this since Gary Hart's 50cent gas tax (which I'd now support). Voters are concerned, but do NOT want to pay more.

    3b) After the tax cuts, the top tax rate payers paid a higher percentage of income tax received by the Feds. They also created more jobs, both in and out of America, which kept the unemployment rate so low.

    Obama has great talk, but his voting walk is what should really be looked at. Do Dems really want to leave Iraq and accept new Killing Fields?
    No way of knowing what would happen ...
    Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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