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	<title>Comments on: Two Presidents for the Price of One: Co-Presidents Michelle, Bill and Cindy</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152327</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152327</guid>
		<description>The only candidate that presents this co-presidency threat is Clinton, who arrogated the undefined, unvoted-for position of co-President after 1992 and which behavior was responsible in large part for the US public&#039;s revulsion driving the 1994 elections.  The Bushes have not behaved this way and there&#039;s no logical basis for suspecting the co-presidency phenomenon will be routine and should be anticipated, even expected.   Logically we can assume there won&#039;t be such a thing, particuarly when this hasn&#039;t been normal practice and the public found it so objectionable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only candidate that presents this co-presidency threat is Clinton, who arrogated the undefined, unvoted-for position of co-President after 1992 and which behavior was responsible in large part for the US public&#39;s revulsion driving the 1994 elections.  The Bushes have not behaved this way and there&#39;s no logical basis for suspecting the co-presidency phenomenon will be routine and should be anticipated, even expected.   Logically we can assume there won&#39;t be such a thing, particuarly when this hasn&#39;t been normal practice and the public found it so objectionable.</p>
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		<title>By: Two Presidents for the Price of One: Co-Presidents Michelle, Bill&#8230; : Stroke</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-112063</link>
		<dc:creator>Two Presidents for the Price of One: Co-Presidents Michelle, Bill&#8230; : Stroke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 22:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Continue Reading [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Continue Reading [...]</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152326</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 22:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152326</guid>
		<description>dear CStanley, I am going to post your excellent comment re Eight Belles over at the article on her death at the racetrack and PETA&#039;s response, &lt;a href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/society/death/19387/peta-speaks-about-eight-belles-being-driven-to-fatal-injuries-on-track/?disqus_reply=422925#comment-422925&quot;&gt;http://themoderatevoice.com/society/death/19387...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thank you, that&#039;s valuable to reprise &#039;risk vs benefit&#039; and that animals cannot always be made to rest. You are with many others agreeing for once with PETA. Very much appreciate your expertise.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear CStanley, I am going to post your excellent comment re Eight Belles over at the article on her death at the racetrack and PETA&#39;s response, <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/society/death/19387/peta-speaks-about-eight-belles-being-driven-to-fatal-injuries-on-track/?disqus_reply=422925#comment-422925"></a><a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/society/death/19387.." rel="nofollow">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/death/19387..</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, that&#39;s valuable to reprise &#39;risk vs benefit&#39; and that animals cannot always be made to rest. You are with many others agreeing for once with PETA. Very much appreciate your expertise.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152325</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152325</guid>
		<description>To perhaps better explain my point about Bill- again getting back to my analogy (an imperfect one, but still...) about a job interview. Even if a person&#039;s spouse is very qualified and has held a similar (or the same) position as the one that&#039;s being sought by the current interviewee, it&#039;s still not assumed that there are going to be two people filling the role instead of just one. And it should work both ways- no one should be voting for Hillary because they WANT Bill back in the WH, and no one should vote against her if the reverse is true. I realize that this is how I think it should be, and it doesn&#039;t match the reality, but I still find it problematic and I think the idea that we should have more involved &quot;First Spouses&quot; is part of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To perhaps better explain my point about Bill- again getting back to my analogy (an imperfect one, but still&#8230;) about a job interview. Even if a person&#39;s spouse is very qualified and has held a similar (or the same) position as the one that&#39;s being sought by the current interviewee, it&#39;s still not assumed that there are going to be two people filling the role instead of just one. And it should work both ways- no one should be voting for Hillary because they WANT Bill back in the WH, and no one should vote against her if the reverse is true. I realize that this is how I think it should be, and it doesn&#39;t match the reality, but I still find it problematic and I think the idea that we should have more involved &#8220;First Spouses&#8221; is part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152324</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152324</guid>
		<description>I think Bill&#039;s involvement could be sanctioned if it&#039;s done properly- by appointing him to a specific position. I do not think he should be a general co-president though, because even though he&#039;s been vetted and elected before it doesn&#039;t mean that he&#039;s the person who is appropriate to lead the country now (and I don&#039;t think it should be presumed that this is what the voters would be choosing.) To some extent, this may be what some of the opposition to Hillary is about- that we don&#039;t want to elect Bill for a third term. There&#039;re several reasons for that: one is just the general principle of term limits that would be violated, another is that it&#039;d be too murky to not know who is responsible for policy, and third and probably not least is that Bill certainly seems less able to control his temper now than he did during his presidency.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Dr. E: From the little bit that I skimmed yesterday, I&#039;d say I&#039;m in agreement with what was written about the racehorse industry. In fact from just a casual reading, I think this may be one of the rare times that I completely agree with PETA. The drug and painkiller issue is a tough one because as a veterinarian we often have to weigh the benefits of such treatments against the fact that animals themselves can&#039;t understand the need to rest or restrict their own activity. And of course, when the animal&#039;s owner feels that he can ignore that advice as well, and either neglects or purposely contradicts it, then the results from the animal are disastrous. But it makes for a difficult ethical position for veterinarians- withhold pain medication, which is obviously inhumane in some cases, or know that by prescribing it you risk the animal&#039;s health and welfare as well if the owner or handler will not follow medical advice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Bill&#39;s involvement could be sanctioned if it&#39;s done properly- by appointing him to a specific position. I do not think he should be a general co-president though, because even though he&#39;s been vetted and elected before it doesn&#39;t mean that he&#39;s the person who is appropriate to lead the country now (and I don&#39;t think it should be presumed that this is what the voters would be choosing.) To some extent, this may be what some of the opposition to Hillary is about- that we don&#39;t want to elect Bill for a third term. There&#39;re several reasons for that: one is just the general principle of term limits that would be violated, another is that it&#39;d be too murky to not know who is responsible for policy, and third and probably not least is that Bill certainly seems less able to control his temper now than he did during his presidency.</p>
<p>Dr. E: From the little bit that I skimmed yesterday, I&#39;d say I&#39;m in agreement with what was written about the racehorse industry. In fact from just a casual reading, I think this may be one of the rare times that I completely agree with PETA. The drug and painkiller issue is a tough one because as a veterinarian we often have to weigh the benefits of such treatments against the fact that animals themselves can&#39;t understand the need to rest or restrict their own activity. And of course, when the animal&#39;s owner feels that he can ignore that advice as well, and either neglects or purposely contradicts it, then the results from the animal are disastrous. But it makes for a difficult ethical position for veterinarians- withhold pain medication, which is obviously inhumane in some cases, or know that by prescribing it you risk the animal&#39;s health and welfare as well if the owner or handler will not follow medical advice?</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152323</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152323</guid>
		<description>CStanley, I&#039;m inclined to agree with you, but I&#039;m hard pressed to think that Bill Clinton isn&#039;t qualified to be president. I mean, he&#039;s the only one whose done it before of any of them! Hillary would be a fool to pass up his immense knowledge of the inner workings of the presidency, in addition to his numerous contacts and alliances (the downside being, of course, that she also inherits his enemies). Of course I think you should vote for the person running for president, not her spouse, even if that spouse is an ex-president, but I also think that assuming a certain level of involvement in the specific case of Bill Clinton isn&#039;t inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CStanley, I&#39;m inclined to agree with you, but I&#39;m hard pressed to think that Bill Clinton isn&#39;t qualified to be president. I mean, he&#39;s the only one whose done it before of any of them! Hillary would be a fool to pass up his immense knowledge of the inner workings of the presidency, in addition to his numerous contacts and alliances (the downside being, of course, that she also inherits his enemies). Of course I think you should vote for the person running for president, not her spouse, even if that spouse is an ex-president, but I also think that assuming a certain level of involvement in the specific case of Bill Clinton isn&#39;t inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152322</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152322</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know for sure CStanley, and nice to see you incidentally; we were looking for your points of view yesterday on the posts about Eight Belles, your special expertise...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;With regard to co-presidencies. I am not certain, but I have never seen this high a profile in the spouses of those running for office; it&#039;s not just the density of spousal appearancees; it&#039;s the pressured speech tone, the body language of the spouses, the words as well; each is clearly a perons in their own right, not a &#039;honey you be the star, i&#039;ll be the audience&#039; kind of person/people/ presentation&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I dont believe I&#039;d like co-presidents, and I meant the term a little tongue in cheek, but i do see &#039;broad daylight&#039; displays of the spouses speaking like, talking like , as though.... in ways that heretofore have often also gone on, but way way behind the scenes&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I also know, as do you and many others, that there are all kinds of spouses of people in high office; truly shy and reitring ones, ones that have NO interest in their mate&#039;s political ambitions, ones who &#039;put up with it all, and try to hold a semblance of family life for small children, and are seldom seen on the road or in anything having to do with the Presidency. But also, there are those who are every bit as aimed toard having that presidency as their mate is. And sometimes, even more than their mate&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think Mrs. McCain is less so, but Mr Bill and Miss Michelle are right out there running hard. One way perhaps to weigh this, is take away Barack, take away Hillary... would their spouses still have an electorate audience? I muse, perhaps so.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t know for sure CStanley, and nice to see you incidentally; we were looking for your points of view yesterday on the posts about Eight Belles, your special expertise&#8230;</p>
<p>With regard to co-presidencies. I am not certain, but I have never seen this high a profile in the spouses of those running for office; it&#39;s not just the density of spousal appearancees; it&#39;s the pressured speech tone, the body language of the spouses, the words as well; each is clearly a perons in their own right, not a &#39;honey you be the star, i&#39;ll be the audience&#39; kind of person/people/ presentation</p>
<p>I dont believe I&#39;d like co-presidents, and I meant the term a little tongue in cheek, but i do see &#39;broad daylight&#39; displays of the spouses speaking like, talking like , as though&#8230;. in ways that heretofore have often also gone on, but way way behind the scenes</p>
<p>I also know, as do you and many others, that there are all kinds of spouses of people in high office; truly shy and reitring ones, ones that have NO interest in their mate&#39;s political ambitions, ones who &#39;put up with it all, and try to hold a semblance of family life for small children, and are seldom seen on the road or in anything having to do with the Presidency. But also, there are those who are every bit as aimed toard having that presidency as their mate is. And sometimes, even more than their mate</p>
<p>I think Mrs. McCain is less so, but Mr Bill and Miss Michelle are right out there running hard. One way perhaps to weigh this, is take away Barack, take away Hillary&#8230; would their spouses still have an electorate audience? I muse, perhaps so.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/comment-page-1/#comment-152321</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19410/two-presidents-for-the-price-of-one-co-presidents-michelle-bill-and-cindy/#comment-152321</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t welcome this shift in thinking. There&#039;s no other job that I can think of where a spouse is presumed to be part of the package- if one person interviews for the job, the interviewer doesn&#039;t assume that on some days, the person&#039;s spouse will show up for work or answer some of his/her calls or correspondence. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For me, it has nothing to do with wanting women to assume a subservient role; if a woman is qualified for the office, let her get elected. Same for a man whose spouse is qualified- but if he isn&#039;t the one running, he shouldn&#039;t be considered to be a policy maker in any way. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course there is and has always been pillow talk and always will be- but that&#039;s different. Ultimately the decisions are made by the one who was voted into office- any personal relationships may influence that (and marriage partners certainly usually do have some influence) but that&#039;s different than saying that the spouse has earned a seat at the cabinet meetings or in directly shaping policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t welcome this shift in thinking. There&#39;s no other job that I can think of where a spouse is presumed to be part of the package- if one person interviews for the job, the interviewer doesn&#39;t assume that on some days, the person&#39;s spouse will show up for work or answer some of his/her calls or correspondence. </p>
<p>For me, it has nothing to do with wanting women to assume a subservient role; if a woman is qualified for the office, let her get elected. Same for a man whose spouse is qualified- but if he isn&#39;t the one running, he shouldn&#39;t be considered to be a policy maker in any way. </p>
<p>Of course there is and has always been pillow talk and always will be- but that&#39;s different. Ultimately the decisions are made by the one who was voted into office- any personal relationships may influence that (and marriage partners certainly usually do have some influence) but that&#39;s different than saying that the spouse has earned a seat at the cabinet meetings or in directly shaping policy.</p>
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