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	<title>Comments on: McCain &amp; Clinton Flunk Economics 101</title>
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		<title>By: Slamfu</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145018</link>
		<dc:creator>Slamfu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 23:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145018</guid>
		<description>I have no idea who Hodel is, but he sounds like a moron.  Oil companies are making a fortune and anyone who thinks they need tax breaks to encourage them to pull $120/barrel oil from the ground is also a moron.    &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They have a unique business in that they know how much of something they are going to sell and for what price they can sell it at.   Its the most predictable of all markets, people need gas and there is no way around that for most of us. The only real question is OPEC going to stifle or increase the supply?   In either case oil companies can adjust production and gas prices accordingly.   If they lose on the extraction of oil, they can make it back at the pump.   But really, at what price do they lose on the extraction?  $15/barrel?   Their product has increased in value 5x and the cost of extraction has gone up how much in the same time frame?  Oh yea, nothing.  In fact, they are getting better at it all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea who Hodel is, but he sounds like a moron.  Oil companies are making a fortune and anyone who thinks they need tax breaks to encourage them to pull $120/barrel oil from the ground is also a moron.    </p>
<p>They have a unique business in that they know how much of something they are going to sell and for what price they can sell it at.   Its the most predictable of all markets, people need gas and there is no way around that for most of us. The only real question is OPEC going to stifle or increase the supply?   In either case oil companies can adjust production and gas prices accordingly.   If they lose on the extraction of oil, they can make it back at the pump.   But really, at what price do they lose on the extraction?  $15/barrel?   Their product has increased in value 5x and the cost of extraction has gone up how much in the same time frame?  Oh yea, nothing.  In fact, they are getting better at it all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145017</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 20:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145017</guid>
		<description>Last, but not least,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.tstc.org/2008/01/15/national-commission-calls-for-gas-tax-hike-and-sweeping-changes-to-fed-program/&quot;&gt;http://blog.tstc.org/2008/01/15/national-commis...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last, but not least,</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.tstc.org/2008/01/15/national-commission-calls-for-gas-tax-hike-and-sweeping-changes-to-fed-program/">http://blog.tstc.org/2008/01/15/national-commis&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145016</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 20:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145016</guid>
		<description>&quot;Lets just repeal the subsidies they are already getting.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Did you ever read &quot;Crisis in the Oil Patch&quot; by Hodel?  You&#039;d have thought the book project was funded by Cheney.  Hodel wanted oil subsidies and a guaranteed oil floor (minimum) price.  (Obviously this was in a time of lower oil prices, a short period where Texas and Oklahoma were suffering.  Out in LA we loved the cheap fuel and wanted it cheaper, of course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Lets just repeal the subsidies they are already getting.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you ever read &#8220;Crisis in the Oil Patch&#8221; by Hodel?  You&#39;d have thought the book project was funded by Cheney.  Hodel wanted oil subsidies and a guaranteed oil floor (minimum) price.  (Obviously this was in a time of lower oil prices, a short period where Texas and Oklahoma were suffering.  Out in LA we loved the cheap fuel and wanted it cheaper, of course.)</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145015</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 20:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145015</guid>
		<description>&quot;&#039;artificially&#039; low (as if vastly greater European levels constitute normality; they do not)&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even using this word when discussing the current tax rate is misuse of the word.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is similar in intent to the real purpose of referring to &quot;revenue neutrality&quot; whenever tax reform is discussed.  Revenue neutrality is useful as a gauge and sanity check of any proposed reform, but those who use the phrase, time after time, are doing it on the predication that revenue (much less, expenditures) &quot;should&quot; [sic] not, never, be decreased.  (Anything that might cause a shrinkage in revenues or spending, in scope of government, these &quot;revenue neutrality&quot; demanders abhor.  It&#039;s predictable, like their gross misuse of &quot;fairness&quot; when discussing tax policy or reform.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#39;artificially&#39; low (as if vastly greater European levels constitute normality; they do not)&#8221;</p>
<p>Even using this word when discussing the current tax rate is misuse of the word.</p>
<p>This is similar in intent to the real purpose of referring to &#8220;revenue neutrality&#8221; whenever tax reform is discussed.  Revenue neutrality is useful as a gauge and sanity check of any proposed reform, but those who use the phrase, time after time, are doing it on the predication that revenue (much less, expenditures) &#8220;should&#8221; [sic] not, never, be decreased.  (Anything that might cause a shrinkage in revenues or spending, in scope of government, these &#8220;revenue neutrality&#8221; demanders abhor.  It&#39;s predictable, like their gross misuse of &#8220;fairness&#8221; when discussing tax policy or reform.)</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145014</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 20:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145014</guid>
		<description>It wouldn&#039;t hurt us in the long term.  Economists are on record as saying that the reduction in taxes would amount to next to nothing and have a similar effect on the economy.  (More substantial was the Clinton-Gore attempt to lower fuel prices in the 2000 campaign by misusing the Stategic Petroleum Reserve for this purpose.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Besides, once the Dem is in the White House taxes on motor vehicle fuels will be raised, probably substantially, anyway.  We&#039;ll be told that we &quot;should drive less&quot; [sic; elitist, totalitarianism-wedded-to-PC-faddishness BS] or that the same fuel prices that are upsetting Americans are &quot;far too low&quot; or (as we&#039;ve seen here with misuse of the word) &quot;artificially&quot; low (as if vastly greater European levels constitute normality; they do not).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Demand for gasoline is elastic to some extent, particularly for those who are on tight budgets.  Normally people make budget changes elsewhere other than with their driving, but you get to a certain point and people take action.  For the past several months, for example, before the cost of fuel was news-making, I had reduced trips taken and more importantly (being more general in nature), I have reduced my speed on the highway -- it really does make a difference, especially with my (small) pickup truck.  (No, we shouldn&#039;t repeat the federal 55 mph idiocy, even if I happen to now be running often at 55 or even 50 on highways and others certainly can, too.)  My brother, who lives in Portland, choked with traffic in a metro area that doesn&#039;t often permit him to reach normal freeway speeds anyway, got rid of his larger-engined vehicle and gloats about the low costs of the fuel sipper little four-banger he got primarily as a daily driver.  (He gets well over 40-45 MPG on the highway at highway speeds, too.)  This is practical for many other people, but of course people shouldn&#039;t be forced to do this or be subject to PC-crap circus-animal-act social engineering games such as a feebate scheme or engine displacement or horsepower tax, etc..&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And note that higher fuel taxes someday or other tax schemes that try to force or merely hector people to reduce driving (an insulting as well as elitist and worse idea) are fundamentally at cross purposes with any desire to raise as much vast new amounts of revenue as possible (on which the Dems will depend, of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wouldn&#39;t hurt us in the long term.  Economists are on record as saying that the reduction in taxes would amount to next to nothing and have a similar effect on the economy.  (More substantial was the Clinton-Gore attempt to lower fuel prices in the 2000 campaign by misusing the Stategic Petroleum Reserve for this purpose.)</p>
<p>Besides, once the Dem is in the White House taxes on motor vehicle fuels will be raised, probably substantially, anyway.  We&#39;ll be told that we &#8220;should drive less&#8221; [sic; elitist, totalitarianism-wedded-to-PC-faddishness BS] or that the same fuel prices that are upsetting Americans are &#8220;far too low&#8221; or (as we&#39;ve seen here with misuse of the word) &#8220;artificially&#8221; low (as if vastly greater European levels constitute normality; they do not).</p>
<p>Demand for gasoline is elastic to some extent, particularly for those who are on tight budgets.  Normally people make budget changes elsewhere other than with their driving, but you get to a certain point and people take action.  For the past several months, for example, before the cost of fuel was news-making, I had reduced trips taken and more importantly (being more general in nature), I have reduced my speed on the highway &#8212; it really does make a difference, especially with my (small) pickup truck.  (No, we shouldn&#39;t repeat the federal 55 mph idiocy, even if I happen to now be running often at 55 or even 50 on highways and others certainly can, too.)  My brother, who lives in Portland, choked with traffic in a metro area that doesn&#39;t often permit him to reach normal freeway speeds anyway, got rid of his larger-engined vehicle and gloats about the low costs of the fuel sipper little four-banger he got primarily as a daily driver.  (He gets well over 40-45 MPG on the highway at highway speeds, too.)  This is practical for many other people, but of course people shouldn&#39;t be forced to do this or be subject to PC-crap circus-animal-act social engineering games such as a feebate scheme or engine displacement or horsepower tax, etc..</p>
<p>And note that higher fuel taxes someday or other tax schemes that try to force or merely hector people to reduce driving (an insulting as well as elitist and worse idea) are fundamentally at cross purposes with any desire to raise as much vast new amounts of revenue as possible (on which the Dems will depend, of course).</p>
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		<title>By: Slamfu</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145013</link>
		<dc:creator>Slamfu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145013</guid>
		<description>Once again, Obama willing to take an approach thats sound but unpopular while his rivals come up with feel-good short term measures that screw us in the long term.   Still feeling like McCain and Clinton are offering change in the status quo?  Then you are not paying attn.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And yea SuperD, the windfall tax is also a really bad idea.   Lets just repeal the subsidies they are already getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, Obama willing to take an approach thats sound but unpopular while his rivals come up with feel-good short term measures that screw us in the long term.   Still feeling like McCain and Clinton are offering change in the status quo?  Then you are not paying attn.</p>
<p>And yea SuperD, the windfall tax is also a really bad idea.   Lets just repeal the subsidies they are already getting.</p>
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		<title>By: AshenShard</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145012</link>
		<dc:creator>AshenShard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145012</guid>
		<description>I actually think it would make more sense to: 1) end all subsidies to the oil/gas industry and 2) recoup any subsidies to those industries over the past four years.  Then take the money and put it towards repairing and upgrading our nations infrastructure.&lt;br&gt;With how stuff works in Washington though, the money would be used for another bridge to nowhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think it would make more sense to: 1) end all subsidies to the oil/gas industry and 2) recoup any subsidies to those industries over the past four years.  Then take the money and put it towards repairing and upgrading our nations infrastructure.<br />With how stuff works in Washington though, the money would be used for another bridge to nowhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly_in_Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145011</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly_in_Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145011</guid>
		<description>When I was a toddler back in Chicago in the late 50s, we had a Plymouth named Ole Bessie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a toddler back in Chicago in the late 50s, we had a Plymouth named Ole Bessie.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/comment-page-1/#comment-145010</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/19298/mccain-clinton-flunk-economics-101/#comment-145010</guid>
		<description>If the fuel tax holiday is a bad idea, then the idea of s windfall profits tax is a much worse idea. Government would try to find a way to spend the money without realizing that it won&#039;t last forever.  It would also lower supply.  But since it is the Democrats who are cheer leading for a windfall profits tax, I do not expect to see any post on Themoderatevoice deriding it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the fuel tax holiday is a bad idea, then the idea of s windfall profits tax is a much worse idea. Government would try to find a way to spend the money without realizing that it won&#39;t last forever.  It would also lower supply.  But since it is the Democrats who are cheer leading for a windfall profits tax, I do not expect to see any post on Themoderatevoice deriding it.</p>
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