dear spirasol: i think you stated that clearly and many can find a fastening point, for they have their many questions too. I was thinking as I read, that in midlife comes a passage, a narrow one… different things for different people to be challenged by. But, one of the most poignant is to transform what is left after the scales fall away from our eyes and we see what we see, instead of what we were told to see.

There is also, as my grandmother used to say, more pain for those who row deep than those who row shallow. But, also those who row deep, grow strong. Some of the greatest strengths in black times are understanding and compassion … and endurance.

It's just my two cents worth, but I am trying to keep rowing. I hope others will too. Toward a worthy set of real ideas, not rote ones, and ways of living them truly

dr.e

The first time I watched Rev. Wright’s speeches I found myself jumping up and down in my chair. It would have been the only time I would have frantically waved my little American flag on a stick, if I had one. I guess that put’s me out of step with the comments so far. I find myself so starved for the truth, that Rev. Wrights comments were a cause of celebration.

On some level I think what Rev. Wright did is similar to what Adolph Reed, Jr. is attempting to do in his most recent article, “NO Obama.” (just google it) That is to point out, that the elements in the campaign that made it potentially exciting, not a robust tea but having stronger elements, have been removed and we are stuck with these two democrats who render the tea significantly less potent.

Wright is right to be bitter. I am. Many unemployed whites who voted against their self interests are. Many Blacks who have made minor inroads, but have been losing ground since the death of ML King are. The one group government seems to be working VERY well for is corporations.

I feel that all the “socialistic” elements of good governance by and for the people are one by one being obliterated over many years. This is to credit the Repub. Revolution. I think I was naïve and one time believed in the goodness this country espoused to be, but whatever veil I once wore, has been torn aside by the Bush administration. Essentially it seems to me, as it does to Reverend Wright, that to work for the disenfranchised, the marginalized, the down and out, and the desperate elements is to be against government. Oh we have a minor stake in which party gets elected, but the new boss is often much of the same. Thus, of coarse Wright will be there fighting for his congregation, pushing government to do the right thing, be it McCain, Clinton or Obama.

Obama wants to be all things to all people, promising there is something in if for all. Wright doesn’t believe him and neither does Reed, who exposes Obama as walking the same middle of the road as the Clinton that went before him and the Clinton he now opposes. For Progressives there is nothing in Obama’s record that suggests he will govern from the left or even try to realign the political compass to reestablish the value of the left. (There is no opposition party today both Dems and Repubs govern from the right)

All this is to say (sorry for my lengthy indulgence) Wright and Reed are also shining a light and ringing a bell trying to wake up those who drank the kool aid, to say, if all you want is to claim the historic right to claim you have elected a black man to the highest office, well, this too will wear thin. Once the celebration wears off, and the gears of daily governance click in, Obama might continue with many of the same policies of today, or offer watered down versions in the name of progress. Much the same could be said of Hillary.

I don't expect my president to be “Ready” or “Right” from Day One; this is a unique job with unique challenges and I EXPECT there to be a learning curve. And if Obama truly means to get beyond “politics as usual” then he will be charting new territory there as well. The capacity for honest introspection and continuous fine-tuning is an important quality I think — one that's been lacking in our current president.

To the extent Obama did know or should have known his pastor's views, I lack sufficient information that would allow me to know what he saw. I could clearly see the Rev. Wright's appeal in his more learned, thoughtful and calm demeanor on Bill Moyers — but obviously there is the subsequent over-the-top incarnation. I wonder if the Rev. Wright donned a pair of Red Shoes on that occasion, in which he danced to the point of spontaneous combustion in spectacular public fashion — perhaps to an unprecedented level given the dynamics you describe in this essay.

No doubt the Republican attack ads will exploit the Rev. Wright connection, but my own amateur psychoanalysis leads to some red flags I see with Senator Clinton as well. (“Is she really tough, or is she one of those types I've seen many times before who is actually galvanized by chaos and conflict, much of it her own making?” Okay, that's a whole 'nother “session” perhaps, but I can envision possible ads and mash-ups exploiting her missteps and snarky remarks in this campaign — and my imagination is not nearly as diabolical as the Republican attack machine's.)

Wouldn't it be loverly if we could indeed see the vetting process shift to an emphasis on the positives, as though this really WERE a job interview? At least the interviews I've had, I felt my prospective employer was mostly interested in learning my strengths and how those might lend themselves to the tasks at hand, rather than a big fat Gong Show?

If a boy were abandoned by his father, and then, as an adult man a father figure turned on him…. you are correct, somewhere in the back room of the heart, new grief. And, reprise of first grief

I've always been impressed with how unrelentingly young children especially, tend to yearn for their parents even when they have the love and care of others, even when the parents are not good to the children

For most of us in the shrink world, it doesnt go without notice when a public figure has been left by both mother and father, in different ways… not left to fend alone; there were grandparents. Still, we know many of the very young long for 'their real parents' despite either adequate or even very loving care from others

And, your observation is correct: rampant egotism and self-centeredness and backstabbing, and 'use others bones as my ladder to climb to success' can occur in Little League, PTA, ah help us, Child Beauty Contests, Fund-raising, Committees for Urban Planning, and on. True.

And there are extra factors that I think apply to a previously oppressed group that do not apply to the PITA who tries to be most important poo-bah in a group of peers who do not, together, share an egregious and life-threatening past history. Tribalism is a form of both protection and restriction at the same time.

Though I have to say, I would nominate for sainthood those who are assiduously committed to PTA, despite all contraveneing personalities. Oghta be at least a Nobel for some of those folks.

thank you runasim.

dr.e

I think, without knowing all the details of the particular situation you explained clearly–I could see it, I believe… I could say something generally though.

The first thing that stood out was differing mindsets; each different than the other in terms of goal and means to gain goal. Nonproft medicine and for profit medicine, in my experience are very different, both want to remain solvent, but often emphases on mission and/or diversification differs, as well as how to, when to, why to.

If all are not in agreement on all the bones of how to proceed and to produce, it can be hard to move easily/ expediantly

that said, my two cents worth is that leadership is a gift in some. They have the knack and we love being near them; they dont want to be a giant, they want to make others giants, is how I would put it. For them, often. ego is concerned with making sure others thrive.

For those of us who've not carried the charism of mature leadership into this world, we learn it as a skill set. There are, as you know, many paradigms for learning leadership. Many. Some ought be called how to manipulate others. lol. Some could be called, how to develop as a true human being so you can see the depths and hopes and dreams and fears of others and move to grow the first ones and decrease the latter one.

I think perhaps the last hopefully useful thing I might say re your comment on ego and narcissism, is that in my two cents worth way of thinking, there is a developed ego that follows the soul, and there is an undeveloped ego that doesnt give consult to soul or much else. I think we carry some of both, and the ratios change as we give thought to it all.

There are stops in between, many of them, as well. How a person rises seems to have a good deal to do with how well their ego is developed to care for and consider others, not just themselves. But to also have clear boundaries, so gifts are not wasted in petty go-rounds. For many, this is a learning process. We all make mistakes in leanring to be. Hopefully we are able to amend those errors and move forward.

Generally speaking, the way I've come to see it presently, is that ego undeveloped is a little like a darling little monkey that wants every bright shiny thing and has no limits on appetites or ambitions. And, perhaps developed ego is like an older more sagacious monkey, none the less dear, but far more thoughtful about trajectories and consequences of each one; far more invested in relationship in order to work cooperatively, than in 'me first, me always, it's all about me all the time.' Or, all about 'the way I see it, the way I want it to be, know it ought to be.' Same diff.

Strong mismatches between what undeveloped ego wants and what a more conscious group wants, can cause combustion. Similarly, strong mismatches between a more well developed ego, and a less conscious group can also flame out or just gp dead. (Conscious, in part meaning examining and aware of themselves as individuals, conscious of their own motives, gifts and foibles, their underpnnings, for instance… looking for answers in one's interior and not just 'out there,' for why something did or did not work, for instance)

To try to answer your last question a little bit CS, I'd reckon that the more one performs for personal motive only rather than for maturation of self and others, the more stuck people can remain. In the bucket.

A certain nimbleness is required to get out of that bucket if all around are saying, 'this bucket is our only home.'

It isnt

And was perhaps meant to be when people needed abject protection.
Some still need that protection. But some are willing to not just enlarge the bucket, or re-decorate the inside of the bucket, but to leap out of it entirely… exemplar to those who would, and will, follow them. Often the very young.

I've been a trustee and chaired a state board. It sounds like you have too. You have my condolences and my congratulations. lol
dr.e

I'm just observing how little time is spent on in-depth thinking and broadening one's horizons.
I'm happiest when I learn of a new angle, which I hadn't thought of before,.

I don't disagree with you about your observation of leaders.
I just happen to think that the ego problem is not limited to minority leaders.
Why single them out?
I've seen that happen in PTA meetings, in art groups (oh, my, the egos in art groups) and in most every committed I've ever been part of.

Isn't that, partly, how we end up with bad governance?

In brief, you're right, but I have another angle.

And I didn't mean to be overly defensive about your remarks; I do agree that we often all tend to respond off the cuff, but I tend to think there's some validity to that as well as long as we're also open to hearing other perspectives. It's perfectly logical to take one's past experiences and judgments and apply them to a new situation to see if it's a fit. We just have to be careful not to force the fit, and to honestly exchange the one judgment for a different one if we see that an alternate viewpoint better explains things.

Dr E looked at this from an upward trrajectory: how the tribe reacts to the one who has risen out of it.
I was thinking in a downward trajectory: how the achiever looks down at the tribe he left behind.

The achiever may not be 100% confident in his new position, because he is a newcomer and because of his different background. He would want to fit in with the new crowd but he fears his diffferences might prevent that. His disinterest in or spurning of the tribe may simply reflect a fear that the association would hamper progress with his acceptance in his new 'neighborhood'.

I immigrated here with my parents and the older generation,in our immigrant group, having more problems with English and customs did sometimes provoke a sort of nervousmess when school friends came to visit. Would they be put off by these strange parents?
That sort of thing usually vanishes with maturity and self confidence, but not always.

I worked for 20 years in the diamond district in NY, and I noticed that a few Reform Jews, dressing in modern syles, were on occasion embarrassed by the Orthodox, with their conspicuously different clothing and men's hair styles. They seemed to fear that they would be all lumped together in the eye's of outsiders and would lose their own identities as the modern Jews.

yes, you may use the piece, just be sure to put a copyright notice next to author's name, and this: For permissions, projectscreener@aol.com

and that will do, and thank you for asking in advance.

You and some of the other commenters might like to read this article from TMV “Barack is Not White, Barack is Not Black: The Possible Gift in Being Bi-Racial.” It includes my own experience in being bi-racial. It is here for you if you wish to read: http://themoderatevoice.com/society/minorities/…

dr.e

I just noticed the tendency to find the culprit before anything much is understood about the situation or people involved. Maybe it's just that in our hurry-hurry world, we want the quick answer, the quick fix.

Contrary to what you read into my comments, I think it's important to get many different angles on the crab story. Maybe if we photograph the crabs from all angles, a crredible composite picture would emerge, and all our judgments would be better informed.

In other words, I was looking at the crabs from an angle that hadn't been considered in the post or earlier comments. I find all angles interesing, when it comes to crab or human behavior.

I also find it interesting that we all, including myself, are eager to find answers before we even know what the questions ought ot be.

I have a dual math/psych degree, so I'm an addicted people watcher.

It's a poignant issue.

Part I think could be strengthened by learning to cope with pot shots from one's own group, understanding the frailty behind those… essentially learning how to deal with subtle and overt envy in the core group that is still striving to climb, or isnt trying, or hopes to one day try.

That's not usually a skill we were born with– it has to be learned step by step, what to say, what attitude and tone to use, how to hold the line yet give rich encouragement to others without falling backward from the weight of sideways remarks. Those sideways remarks, sometimes belittling, sometimes taunting or mocking or said in quasi jest are the ones that often make the 'rising person' not want to be near.

I've seen the struggle in my native american communities, where native authors rise up, and others who feel they have worked as hard, have not… and in close cultures, sometimes people who are not yet acheiving as much as they hope to, want those rising to help them..but often that is not within the power of the person to do.

Some of their core group may have fantasies about how many contacts and what huge power the rising one has. Usually, it's just that. A fantasy. They dont have power to direct the wind. Wind power has to come from each individual … and then there is calling… and unforeseen destiny too that enter the mix.

I think mikkel, your point of 'becoming resentful and hateful' is from having likely been sideswiped or insulted by some of their own, who were not appreciative of all the hard work it took that person to rise… as well as perhaps too much contact with some who want the same but are not willing to work hard and daily, for it, or want it given as a fait accompli.

Could I put it this way? You have to develop cojones o ovarios to deal with your own people's fears and their striking out against, even when they dont really mean to; the criticisms just 'jump out' into some and spew outward. It's a learning process. I think the category is: Love of Humanity… an easy idea, sometimes a difficult day to day walk.

I think mikkel, think about how to teach the NEW useful attitude required, and the NEW effective words and heart understandings, and the new personal limits that need be put in place. Perhaps then, some will be able to 'stand' to turn toward previous bonds without feeling poorly after.

Frankly, like Sen Obama perhaps, most people who rise never expect the slash and burn to come from their own people or former acquaintances. I think, once the underlying fragility behind all that is better understood however, the 'star' has a chance, at least a change to make a choice to take a compassionate view over a resentful view.

your unphrased question was a good one

dr.e

Let's be Clear: There was a time when Rev. Jeremiah Wright was once higly respected and sought after, hence his trip to the White House invited by Bill and Hillary Clinton for Prayer and Support when they were going through Bill's Impeachment time. Some of Hillary's strongest surrogates also have close ties to Rev. Wright, Shiela Jackson Lee and Rev. Marcia Dyson!

Going forward, however, Barack has to reiterrate all that got people interested in his campaign in the first place, the fact that he does stand for unity and for reaching out to all classes of people, which deflects that he is an elitist. That he works and stands for the working people and that he always has. That to get anything passed these days you need Change in Washington, away from Corporations and the special interest and invest in people! There comes a time in each Society for the sake of survival, they must Change and As a man of “goodwill”, it was hard for Barack to see the egomaniac in Wright. However, when it became clear by the total spectacle Wright made of himself in front of national TV on all Three (3) cable-news channels, which played his Entire Speech — something usually only Reserved for Presidents! And, Barack was right to divorce himself from Wright for the sake of the work and change he is trying to bring to the people. One Ego or a few Egos cannot or should not get in the way of the “Good” of the Whole!

And yes, it was time for an amicable Parting of the Ways between Barack and Rev. Wright who has definitely put a sword in his side. I now understand why Barack thinks some people are bitter — he has been conditioned to think that way by the bitterness of his former Pastor, to think that some people are bitter, although Barack was not subject to this bitterness himself but was able to overcome this conditioning and escape it rather incorporating the engery of unity, goodwill and hope, instead! I hope, we the people, will not be blindsided by the onslaught of the Two-Headed Giant — Clintons & Republican-Controlled Media — directed at this Candidate of Change and Hope we have in Barack Obama and miss the boat again, by allowing him to be “Swiftboated”!

Barack “Investing in People!”

I've seen the group dynamics you speak of (in nearly any group) very often, but what normally happens is that the people that do go on to bigger and better things end up becoming resentful and hateful towards their previous acquaintances. This is especially pronounced in immigrants I've worked with. It is to the point where they have lost almost all insight into how to actually interact with their prior groups in a productive way and it's a real shame because they “know the language” and could help.

Actually I'm not sure how to phrase it as a question but I think my thoughts are self evident.

That's not to say that this is the sole factor that is driving inequality between the races, but if it's a problem as I believe it is, then it's important for it to be spoken of frankly. And in my second comment, I was trying to point out that I don't think that black leaders INTEND to cause more harm than good, I think it's a product of that same phenomenon that I noted in other groups- leaders who can't distinguish between self interest and the interest of a group.

Why is out foremost instinct tuned to finding out who did what wrong, and who is to blame? Few seem to be interested in the lives of the hapless crabs. We're just happy to note what they're doing wrong and to condemn them for it.

Did anyone look to see if the crabs intended to pull others down, or whether they were just scrambling to get out of the pot to save their lives, and the fate of the others was accidental?
And what about the well documented effects of stress? The crabs were ripped from their natural habitat, and they must have felt the threat of imminent death hovering. Big time stress there!

Meanwhile, the craw-daddyers (is there such a word?) are making note of bad crab behavior while licking their lips in gleeful anticipation of the slaughter and fine meal to come. They have no right to feel superior in the quest for survival.

I wonder what the crabs' lawyer would say in a morality court.
What would the judge and jury say?

There is much more to the saga of the crabs than just crab behavior!
——————————————————————————————-

Sorry, Dr. E,
I couldn't help myself. There are just so many angles and claws to this story!

The point that I made about a leader of a minority group applies to other situations as well, I think. I was involved in a start up nonprofit group for a number of years, and the other key person who was heading it had a dual role. She worked in the same field, but for profit- and she saw herself in various ways as being able to perform both the for-profit and the not-for-profit roles, without understanding some of the conflict of interest there. Fortunately over several years and building a stronger board of directors, we were able to help her move to a more appropriate role and manage the conflict of interest effectively.

I see this in leaders in general oftentimes; a certain amount of ego and even narcissistic ambition is probably essential in their characters. But at some point a line is crossed, so that the person is unable to see the line between their own self interest and the interest of the group.

Do you agree with this assessment generally, and do you agree that it also applies to the minority leaders who can't leave aside the bucket psychology because it would destroy their ambitions and even their identity?

This is so interesitng, though, that I break my own rule, while still applying big grains of salt to anything I read or think.

Dr. E has written most eloquently from one intriguing angle. In truth, there are so many angles from which to look at this, there is enough material for several Greek tragedies.
Yes, I think we are seeing a tagedy, no matter how you look at it.

I'm fascinated by the relationship between Wright and Obama. As Obama's father has been absent, I suspect Wright was a father subsittue, at least to some degree.
A preacher who knows them both explained (via Charlie Rose) that their relationship was close but consisted largely of debate rather than obedience. That would be much like what happens when a son asserts his independent thinking.

I can imagine a lot of pain for both men, when politics forced them apartt, each feeling betrayed by the other.

It's tragic for Obama, because the older man was ruining his candicacy. a historic chance of a lifetime, not only for hiim but for all blacks and the nation. He would have expected the 'father' in Wright to understand that and to help, not to hinder.
That didn't happen.

It's tragic for Wright, because he was abandoned while being pilloried by the media. He and his career of 40 years were being reduced to a caricature. His life and his family's lives were being threatened. This is what he got for having a famous congregant.
He would have expected the 'son' in Obama to come to his defense, but that didn't happen.

Out of the limelight, they could have continued to 'benefit from this 'son-father' relationship for many more long years, taking the love and respect and continuing their debates: the normal stuff of any relationship.

I feel tremendous sadness for both men and their families.
A lot of hurt with no resolution possible, at least not for a long while.

PS Just remember the grain of salt about their relationship. I have no personall knowledge.