The FLDS Church Based on Polygamy Now in Court
Apr 18th, 2008 | 8 responses
Over 400 children were recently transported by bus away from the isolated Texas commune built by Warren Jeffs (currently in prison for forcing a child to marry an older man) and his brother (currently in charge of all the wives and children back at the ranch)…the brotherly duo being self-acclaimed polygamists and self-anointed heads of their own renegade LDS (Church of the Latter Day Saints– Mormon) temple.
The State of Texas will seek to show, provided one or more of the seeming spellbound and vapid acting women from the renegade group, will testify that the commune is dedicated to bringing children into the world yes, but it appears part of the motive of the commune’s hyper fecundity, is to supply young girls to pedophilic adults, and to supply the Jeffs’ construction companies with free labor of their young boys so the Jeffs can continue to lowball contracts, including contracts with the government.
There may also be misuse of Federal Food Stamp program by the commune to support the high percentage of the commune who appear to live under the poverty line… even though the self-appointed male leaders live in jaw-dropping luxury.
There may be a basis for racketeering charges as well if the Jeffs’ construction company is suspected of kiting and defrauding others in a discernable pattern.
The Two Sides of the Legal Argument Pro and Con, Are Likely to Go Something Like This:
The State will seek to show that returning children to an environs where the order of the day is to prepare very young girls age 12-16 to be ‘spiritually married’ and impregnated by old men, and that dependent boy children are routinely shunned and ejected from the community when they reach mid and late adolescence (and become a seeming threat to the Jeffs’ autocracy)… that this is an abusive environs for underage children.
No doubt the defense (The entire situation is now in the Texas courts, along with– your eyes do not deceive you– over 300 lawyers.) that the State has erred and is violating the Constitutional right to ‘freedom of religion.’
But pedophilia isn’t a religion, neither is breaking child labor laws, neither is casting out dependent children, neither is brainwashing a child to think her only choice is to marry a man 3 and 4 times her age, and to think of motherhood as the only avenue open to her that has ‘highest blessing.”
Motherhood is a high vocation. But, it’s meant to be chosen, not pressed onto a girl by knowingly isolating her while she is a mere child, by keeping her from knowledge of the world and her many talents and opportunities, and by stripping her many choices to only one– marry and produce 6, 8, 10, 12 –and more children, or else be exiled.
opinions powered by SendLove.to
8 Responses to “The FLDS Church Based on Polygamy Now in Court”
In my view, the situation is now so messy because this country over exaggerates the freedom of religion when that freedom entails practices that run contrary to law.
Polygamy is against the law. Had we ever tackled that circumstance head on, we wouldn't need to sort out this mess concerning children. Who knows how much good this will do in the end, but in the meantime, children are being trauamtized by their sudden removal from homes. .
Now that we have a volunteer military, the problem with pacifists has been neutralized. When we had the draft, pacifists could at least evade the issue by serving as medics or filling other roles not requiring the use of arms.
Efforts to confront the illegality of polygamy in the past proved so difficult that the governement chose to close its eyes and pretend it wasn't there.
Bad mistake. Bad precedent.
What excuse could be used now to protest if polygamous Muslims begin to set up equally separate communities and live according to Sharia law within them? It would be glaringly hypocritical to be outraged in that case, when FLDS cpmmunities have been allowed to grow and thrive.
The problem with child brides begins the minute a girl is born, not when an anonymous phone call is received by the authorities. Close your eyes to the problem decade after decade, and you end up with hundreds of children crying for their mothers;
Dr. E,
I respectfully submit that it's not always so easy to determine what is and what is not a religion. Someitmes a fervent secular belief can have the exact same effect, even though reference to a spirit being is lacking.
I'm thinking of other extremist seperatists who would go to any lengths to avoid paying taxes. or allow any government overshight of their communities.
When you say, then, that pedophilia is not a religion, I don't see any other means of determining that except by referring to law. The 'ick' factor alone doesn't suffice, because revulsion per se can't be codified.
Polygamy is against the law.
As I see it…Polygamy is not the problem….nor the issue….
Abuse of underage girls is the scourge that needs attention.
My suggested solution:
Step 1. Change the law and Legalize Polygamy. Women…stop using the abuse of underage girls to control adult men and women that willingly choose to pledge their lives together…Stop masking your fears of your man or husband asking you if it is okay if he adds one more hen to the roost….If the USA truly purports to be a Judeo-Christian society, then crack open your bible and admit…allow…(maybe even bless) the true Judeo-Christian historical perspective. Having more than one wife was common and apparently blessed by God.
So the questions begs…who are you people to decide if Mary and Sue, whom are both 18 or older, pledge their life to Tom? Tom does not care about your “ick ” factor…Tom is happy with his ick…and his life and just wants the freedom to live his live according to his Maker and partner with consenting ADULTS.
Step 2. Enforce laws that protect children and minors. Prosecute those FLDS members that violate young girls under the age of 18. Religion nor judeo-christian values condone the abuse of those who are unable to speak for themselves…and young teenage girls (12-17) are not ready to speak for themselves….18 years seems to be a reasonable amount of time for a person to *begin* to make mature decisons about life.
3. Recognize that the FLDSers communal living, values, and practices (minus the child brides, welfare fraud and genetic issues…hey, can you pronounce fumarase deficiency) appear to be much better than the vast majority of other american lifestyles I have witnessed my past 40 some odd years…the fact is….those people look very healthy…happy….and loved and I feel a little bit jealous of the love and support and nurturing all those kids apparently receive growing up…
Is it really so terrible to remove kids from all the sex, violence, pornography, “mean girl” pressures, fast food, selfish society that we all have to deal with every day and try to clear the gunk out of our heads???
Yes, get rid of the child molesters and underage brides…but also be willing to admit the good things these FLDS people have in their lifestyle and be open to a way of life not exactly the same as your own.
By the way…I live in Florida and I am not a mormon or FLDSer and I do not believe in Joseph Smith in any way. But I am a person open to “what works” and I ask you people to try to be objective and not too much controlled by what present day “society” and “culture” controls over your life…think about it
Frank in Florida.
dear runasim, you are correct; polygamy, children abuse, sexual intrusion of minors, breaking child labor laws, defrauding the government are all against the law; in this case as I have noted here and in my other posts, polygamy is the least of the issues. I think the determinant, as you say, has to be made by matching actions against the law of the land, rather than the law of Warren Jeffs. Thank you always for your thoughts. “Ick” factor, what a great turn of phrase.
Frankmaui, welcome and I see you left a similar comment at another post of mine, so if it's alright with you, I'll reply here. Must be nice to be in Florida and all that sunshine!
Overall, my response to some of your thoughts as a mother of three daughters is that I need not join a group that isolates the females (or males) in order for me to provide love and to give decent and protective education, to watch over and hand raise. I would want every daughter to have many options to develop her gifts, and the same for every son. I don't believe that making them unfit to enter the larger world is the way of the spirit, creative or otherwise.
I do see your offerings about polygamy, and the issue I'm writing about here and in my other posts about FLDS, is not polygamy. They're about abuse of young children who are underage, and about the current law of our land, and issues related to that. In the short and long run, the alledged violators could be polygamous, monogamous or polyamorous. It's not the main bearing.
with kindest regards,
dr.e
Your legal arguments are superficial. These people not only have Free Exercise Constitutional arguments, but also search and seizure Constitutional arguments as well as state and federal procedural due process arguments.
I would hope that you would concentrate on the fact that the evidence thus far introduced into court shows no reason that all 400 plus children be kept away from their mothers, fathers and their homes. The fast majority, if not all of these children and mothers should be returned home. Texas has not met its own statutory burden. I invite your readers to consider an opposing view to yours, here.
Regards,
Guy Murray
Messenger and Advocate
Mr Guy_Murray points to an LDS website.
However, here we continue to monitor the info coming in… as of Ap 26, it has been determined that a large number of young girls in protective custody are pregnant, and underage. The early reports say 26 girls are pregnant
There is speculation that the DNA tests may ascertain that paternity and perhaps maternity of some of the children will not be congruent with the statements given by the women and some few men about who is whose parent.
The issues concerning alledged misuse of children via sexual intrusion by adults, breaking of child labor laws, defrauding government, et al, as well as other potential violations of child protection law, continue to be manyfold and seriously considered by the courts.
The matters will be settled by the courts according to the laws of the land… not by practices of the group nor those who lead the group. It would seem that regardless of outcomes, this will be a many years' long set of cases running through more than one court system.
In the meantime, more than a few legal defense lawyers think it was a gross error of judgement for whomever of the group decided the women should be on television, and repeatedly so. That was most unfortunate some legal minds say, as such a fixed record may under certain circumstances be put into evidence, and therefor be characterized in ways that prosecutors do, along with experts questioning the women's affects and mental conditions… via the now many films of the women saying various and sundry things over a period of time.
We shall wait and see. I expect it may be a long process, with many efforts to block FLDS parents' compliance with the court's requests. In the short and long run, this will delay reunions and a return to the compound for parents and children.
There have been many commentators in the MSM who have said, were it their children, they would have the DNA testing immediately; that their children are more important than making any legal point of any kind with religious fervor or not… that if only one can be chosen , as seems the case here, they'd immediately choose the fastest track to their child/children. No ifs, ands, or buts.
dr.e
“As I see it…Polygamy is not the problem….nor the issue….
Abuse of underage girls is the scourge that needs attention.”
I couldn’t agree more. It has nothing or little to do with polygamy or FLDS.
It would be safe to assume that corruption and lies exist within all religions, and that sometimes one “bad apple” ruins the bunch. Warren Jeffs is an evil man, who has used his power and the fear of God to sexually abuse women and children. No matter what he believes, he should be stopped.
“…the fact that the evidence thus far introduced into court shows no reason that all 400 plus children be kept away from their mothers, fathers and their homes. “
In the state of Texas, “A person having the cause to believe that a child’s physical or mental health or welfare has been adversely affected by abuse or neglect by any person shall immediately make a report…..”
I don’t know about any of you, but if I saw my 13 year old sister being abused sexually by my step-father, who was married to my mother AND my sister, the mental anguish that would accompany for anyone is enough reason to remove all minors from that situation.
“But I am a person open to “what works” and I ask you people to try to be objective and not too much controlled by what present day “society” and “culture” controls over your life…think about it”
It doesn’t work. The countless stories told and still yet to be told, the fraud and abuse– they are not just a “quaint community.” It is a sin for women to enjoy sex. If you have intercourse with a woman who is already pregnant, it is considered adultery. It’s a cattle ranch where the cows are being lined up to reproduce, a real-life Handmaid’s Tale.
Believe what you will, and let me believe as I choose. But when you start abusing the government to “bleed the beast,” and reap the benefits of the tax payers dollars‘- while essentially being a fugitive and abusing young girls– the “beast” should step in. Why is it okay for our government go to war with surrounding countries for religious beliefs, but not okay to step in a remove a child from an abusive situation on home turf? Where is the president?
These women have no self esteem. They have been beaten down continually with a sweet hope that they will someday live an eternal life, and so they remain stuck. In my opinion, it isn’t safe to give someone who hasn’t been given the opportunity to think for themselves, the right or opportunity to raise a child and repeat the cycle of abuse.
Although it may sound as if I am making excuses for these women, and somehow justifying their behavior as well, I am not. Anyone, especially a mother, who sees their own child being abused is just as much to blame as Warren Jeffs.
dear Heidi55, welcome. You wrote: “Although it may sound as if I am making excuses for these women, and somehow justifying their behavior as well, I am not. Anyone, especially a mother, who sees their own child being abused is just as much to blame as Warren Jeffs.”
You have hit on what many mothers from surrounding cities in Texas, have been reported as saying on the news. That they understand the women from FLDS have been born into the FLDS and its ways. But they also hold the women accountable for whichever way a child within FLDS may have been injured.
mercy but accountability.
dr.e