http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/17/133...

Even the substantive issues were 1988-era questions like Affirmative Action and guns.

There were a few points of substance in last night's debate- why not post about those things, instead of adding to the echo chamber about how lousy the MSM hosted debates are? And why don't bloggers press the candidates to do more Q&A?

Step out of the circle.

I can't get too worked up that they focused on Obama so much because they would do the same to Clinton (and did) when she was front runner. Personally, I think at some point he needs to refuse to participate. If I were him, then ten minutes into it I would have gone Jon Stewart on their asses. It would have a historical moment and no one would have blamed him. The amount of anger I read last night from all quarters was crazy. I think at this point nearly every one feels that the media is a highly destructive force and they are the ones that set the discourse of the political campaign. They should have their debate on Comedy Central, it'd tell us a lot more.

McCain, after all, has shown he can take the hits of the Bush/Rove machine, as well as the NYT.

Ummm… he lost to the Bush/Rove machine, and then kissed their asses as if they didn't try to destroy him with personal attacks.

Seriously, there is a circularity to all this that's sickening. The media says: the general election will be like this so let's just start now. But who does it in the general election that way? The media.

I think one point is that it allows voters and SDs to see something of how the candidates will survive under full pressure of a campaign.

I don't expect McCain will smear Obama…but I would be surprised if the 527s didn't.

I too would have preferred hard questions. For example:
Senator Obama, you have talked about coming together and moving beyond the politics of the past. That is fine rhetoric, but how PRECISELY will you go about achieveing this as President?

Senator Clinton, your former efforts to achieve Health Care reform failed under widespread opposition from the insurance industry. How PRECISELY do you intend to overcome this opposition to achieve your goals as President?

With Moderators who would step in and PRESS the candidates, and not allow them to go “Blah blah blah” and evade the answers.

To be honest, the only thing I got out of ALL the Democratic debates was the “Drivers License” issue…which Obama answered clearly, but where HRC answered in that weird triangulation of hers.
That was VERY revealing of her thought processes, and a pivotal point in the campaign, I thought.

I got nothing out of the Republican debates, as most of the players seemed absurd. “Fred Thompson” as the voice of American conservatism. God in Heaven.

I was speaking more of McCain against Bush/Rove (the GOP primary selection this time was surreal)…and particularly South Carolina…with flyers distributed that hit McCain like a nightmare from Hell. Obama had nothing like that. Some of Bush/Rove Greatest Hits on John McCain included:

–”McCain: The Fag Candidate”
–Illegitimate Children
–Rumors of Homosexuality
–Drug-Addict Wife (true, left Blogs bring this one up too, echoing Rove)
–Insane and unbalanced after five years as POW in North Vietnam
–McCain committed Treason by collaborating with the enemey (left blogs use this on too)
–Fathered child With Black prostitute
and my favourite:
–”5.6 medals for each aircraft lost”

That is the Bush/Rove machine at work. Obama has faced nothing like this.

I think you have an edited /memory of McCain under fire.

He didn't have to be on the campaign trail for long, answering the same dumb questions over and over, but even so, he got pretty testy and contentious during his last exchanges with Romney. Knowing his fiery temperament, it's likely he would have blown up under circumstances like this 'debate'.

You tlak about this as if it should be like a wresltling match, full of gimmicky shows of prowess. This is serious; it shouldn't be a carnival sideshow!.
Wearing a lapel pin? Please. The most ridiculous statement in of all was Romney's 'I'm stepping down because I love America'.

I give Obama lots of credit for not stooping down to that level. Those professing to love America should respect the dignity of the high office the candidates seek and refrain from making this into an American Idol contest.

Obama has proven throughout the campaign that he can take hits. I think he took his hits with amazing poise last night. He didn't fold and make some absurd gaffe or lash out. He ran the gauntlet and looked like he ran the gauntlet. But he survived and that's all you can do in a moment like that.

It is the same as the promise to nationalize healthcare while supporting open borders and unlimited immigration. I wonder if free healthcare will benefit illegal aliens much more than it will benefit the middle class.

LonewackoDotCom has a very good point. If one wants discussion of the “issues” why can't the candidates be pressed on them…ask Obama, for example, why his health care plan refuses to limit the power of insurance companies to toss people off once they are sick (a widespread practice in the industry, and one notably blocked by HRC's plan).

This would truly reveal the candidates and their thinking. If the debates don't do that…they are valueless in terms of policy/issues.

So why not press them on the questions some Americans have been wondering about…like HRC's tendency to fabricate history…or Obama's refusal to wear a flag or display outward patriotism.

If nothing else…this would give some indication which candidate can hold up best under the battering of a campaign. The GOP aren't gonna be gentle like Gibson and Stephanopolous.

HRC has shown she can take an RPG in the face and keep smiling…Obama has consistently shown tension and discomfort at questioning.

That is revealing at least…and some indication how the candidate will fare in the Fall and under pressure.

McCain, after all, has shown he can take the hits of the Bush/Rove machine, as well as the NYT. HRC's survival ability is legendary. Obama…not so much.

I feel too sick about it to comment., because I'm afraid the ahtchet job might work;

I would give the Anderson Cooper/CNN the top spot. I don't remember the ABC/Facebook debate… there have been 24 debates or so…

BTW: if anyone wants to watch this debate I recorded it- just let me know and I'll be more than happy to get rid of the DVD…. ooops, I mean I'll be more than happy to send the DVD to you for your viewing pleasure.

Thanks, elrod for the posting! I'll have to plagiarize it since I totally agree with it.

Russert deserves to be the primary target of mockery.

Mark Daniels