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Proving Obama’s Point

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For those who had the misfortune of watching the ABC debate tonight, you got to see everything that is wrong with politics today.

The first 51 minutes of a 90 minute debate – yes, more than half – was focused on absolutely substance-free gotcha questions about flag pins, some Weather Underground guy (hand delivered by Sean Hannity), Bosnia, Bittergate and Reverend Wright. And then when the substantive part of the debate began, the questions dealt with gun control, affirmative action, the capital gains tax and a few other side issues. One minute was spent on gas prices.

The Iraq question was posed as a gotcha question: would you override the generals? And the Iran question was framed in some inflammatory manner too.

No questions on health care. No questions on energy (other than a brief exchange on gas prices). No questions on education. No questions on FISA or torture (even though lots of constitutional references mysteriously floated through the air in commercial breaks). No questions on the environment. Nothing on trade. And no question on jobs and the recession.

You think Pennsylvania voters might have wanted to hear about jobs and the economy? Or do they really care only about God, guns and the American flag? I think it’s the former.

The whole debate reeked of Karl Rove-Lee Atwater wedge politics, with absolutely no substance. It exemplified what Barack Obama calls the “politics of the past.” Both candidates came in for the absurdities, but Obama took the vast majority of it. I’m sure some will say that’s the price of being the front runner. Maybe it’s all just theater. But it was a revelation of just how broken our political system is.

I think the pundit commentary is caught too.

The smarter ones – Chuck Todd, Andrew Sullivan, Marc Ambinder – recognized the political atrocity of this debate. But even they can’t free themselves from the old paradigms and so must argue about who was more “ashen” or on the defensive. If I were Barack Obama I would have gotten off the dais and punched Charlie Gibson in the face. That Obama didn’t assault him shows remarkable cool in my opinion.

But I guess we’ll all pass it off and say, “Hey, the Republicans will throw this at him and we need to see if he can take it.” And that’s the saddest statement of all. We’re resigned to this.

What the debate proved, more than anything else, was the urgency of changing our politics. Barack Obama has faced withering questions about a variety of associations and statements that bear little or nothing on his character, judgment or certainly his policies. And, it must be mentioned, Hillary Clinton did all she could to capitalize on this sleazefest, even though she’s faced this for 15 years. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander I suppose. She’s proving Obama’s point about what’s wrong with our politics.

So how do we get beyond this politics?

The only way is through mockery. The pundits need to be mocked the way Stephen Colbert mocks them. They need to be shamed the way Jon Stewart shamed Crossfire. The dripping condescension from the elite media needs to be called out and thrashed, both here in the blogosphere and by politicians themselves.

But most of all, voters must see through this garbage and vote on issues and real character, not on gotcha tabloid stuff. This isn’t 1988, thankfully.

Let’s bracket off the 1968-2004 years and move in a new and substantive direction with our politics.

  • It was pretty to surreal to watch. FOX News could have hardly done a better job in funneling right wing attacks at Obama.

    Notice how Obama took the high road when it came to Clinton's lies about Bosnia, yet Clinton squeezed everything she could out of the smear attacks on Obama. Bravo Hillary.
  • alamantra
    I agree with you completely. This was a hatchet job, not a debate. We shouldn't give it the dignity of calling it a debate, and we shouldn't give ABC our ratings. George and Charles need to be run out on a rail.
  • vwcat
    Most voters see through it and that is why so many disengage. The debate was the ultimate in the 90s style shallow and gotcha games. Which is why Hillary enjoyed it so much. She finally got a debate that focused on the tawdry and trivial. One that pumped up the predictable rightwing talking points.
    Some say Obama seemed to have not brought his game. I think he did but, shut down when it became a re-enactment of Clintonian politics. He probably saw it for the old school crap that the media is so entrenched in. They still think it's 1996.
    or 2000.
    And after 5 days of a media created controversy over a nonissue, obama simply decided he was not going to play.
    Most people, even low information ones, know the games and are not interested in them. They complain but, the press ignores them. Just like the government that Obama got trashed over. Maybe because you could sub gov. for media.
    Mark my words. The behavior of the media tonight along with Hillary's audition for the vp slot with McCain, there is going to be a huge backlash
  • MJDaniels53
    I watched the "highlights" from the ABC debate on CNN this evening. It made me happy that my wife, son, and I spent that part of the night watching some Disney fluff, 'Enchanted.'

    Mark Daniels
  • JSpencer
    I am in agreement with your analysis Elrod, and also with the comments posted in Joe's column by Americablog. This was a sick joke foisted on the candidates and also the American people. Trying to pass it off as "debate" is shameful and disturbing. Chris is right, Obama tried to rise above the idiocy and even to point out how wrongheaded the questions were. And the way Hillary was trying to make hay ouf of the worst of the questions by trashing Obama was truly disgusting. The moderators should be ashamed of themselves, and in truth, I can't say anything bad enough about their role in the thing. I wanted to slap them both. What a sham.
  • GeorgeSorwell
    They're all trying to be Tim Russert.

    Russert deserves to be the primary target of mockery.
  • The ABC News/Facebook debate from earlier in the primary season was the best of the debates, and this was probably the worst.
  • StockBoySF
    I agree that this wasn't a good debate. I thought that the moderators were creating openings to create fireworks, but they didn't go so far as one particular debate (before Super Tuesday?). A couple people posted on here about that... I just don't remember which debate it was. Though overall this debate was the worse of them all.

    I would give the Anderson Cooper/CNN the top spot. I don't remember the ABC/Facebook debate... there have been 24 debates or so...

    BTW: if anyone wants to watch this debate I recorded it- just let me know and I'll be more than happy to get rid of the DVD.... ooops, I mean I'll be more than happy to send the DVD to you for your viewing pleasure. :)

    Thanks, elrod for the posting! I'll have to plagiarize it since I totally agree with it. :)
  • I doubt whether those who've left the comments above would be interested in a real debate. In such a debate, the candidates' policies would be analyzed by experts and the candidates would have to indicate their contingency plans and respond to the flaws in their policies. If that were about immigration, both the Dems and the GOP would have to look for new candidates.
  • runasim
    Elrod was reading my mind.!!!

    I feel too sick about it to comment., because I'm afraid the ahtchet job might work;
  • Marlowecan
    It is clear from the comments whose ox was gored in the debate.

    LonewackoDotCom has a very good point. If one wants discussion of the "issues" why can't the candidates be pressed on them...ask Obama, for example, why his health care plan refuses to limit the power of insurance companies to toss people off once they are sick (a widespread practice in the industry, and one notably blocked by HRC's plan).

    This would truly reveal the candidates and their thinking. If the debates don't do that...they are valueless in terms of policy/issues.

    So why not press them on the questions some Americans have been wondering about...like HRC's tendency to fabricate history...or Obama's refusal to wear a flag or display outward patriotism.

    If nothing else...this would give some indication which candidate can hold up best under the battering of a campaign. The GOP aren't gonna be gentle like Gibson and Stephanopolous.

    HRC has shown she can take an RPG in the face and keep smiling...Obama has consistently shown tension and discomfort at questioning.

    That is revealing at least...and some indication how the candidate will fare in the Fall and under pressure.

    McCain, after all, has shown he can take the hits of the Bush/Rove machine, as well as the NYT. HRC's survival ability is legendary. Obama...not so much.
  • superdestroyer
    After watching a recap on CNN, Senator Obama promised to lower taxes on the middle class. Maybe he was lucky that no one asked how he plans to have a massive increase in entitlements while not raising taxes on 98% of Americans. Did he not learn economics while at all those elite private schools he attended?

    It is the same as the promise to nationalize healthcare while supporting open borders and unlimited immigration. I wonder if free healthcare will benefit illegal aliens much more than it will benefit the middle class.
  • elrod
    Marlowe,
    A hard substantive debate would be great. The problem here is the utter lack of substance, not the harshness. I still cannot believe that Obama was asked if Rev. Wright loves America as much as Obama does. How does one answer a question like that? What's the point of such a question?

    Obama has proven throughout the campaign that he can take hits. I think he took his hits with amazing poise last night. He didn't fold and make some absurd gaffe or lash out. He ran the gauntlet and looked like he ran the gauntlet. But he survived and that's all you can do in a moment like that.
  • runasim
    Marlowecan,

    I think you have an edited /memory of McCain under fire.

    He didn't have to be on the campaign trail for long, answering the same dumb questions over and over, but even so, he got pretty testy and contentious during his last exchanges with Romney. Knowing his fiery temperament, it's likely he would have blown up under circumstances like this 'debate'.

    You tlak about this as if it should be like a wresltling match, full of gimmicky shows of prowess. This is serious; it shouldn't be a carnival sideshow!.
    Wearing a lapel pin? Please. The most ridiculous statement in of all was Romney's 'I'm stepping down because I love America'.

    I give Obama lots of credit for not stooping down to that level. Those professing to love America should respect the dignity of the high office the candidates seek and refrain from making this into an American Idol contest.
  • Marlowecan
    Runasim said: "I think you have an edited /memory of McCain under fire."

    I was speaking more of McCain against Bush/Rove (the GOP primary selection this time was surreal)...and particularly South Carolina...with flyers distributed that hit McCain like a nightmare from Hell. Obama had nothing like that. Some of Bush/Rove Greatest Hits on John McCain included:

    --"McCain: The Fag Candidate"
    --Illegitimate Children
    --Rumors of Homosexuality
    --Drug-Addict Wife (true, left Blogs bring this one up too, echoing Rove)
    --Insane and unbalanced after five years as POW in North Vietnam
    --McCain committed Treason by collaborating with the enemey (left blogs use this on too)
    --Fathered child With Black prostitute
    and my favourite:
    --"5.6 medals for each aircraft lost"

    That is the Bush/Rove machine at work. Obama has faced nothing like this.
  • Marlowecan
    Elrod asked: "How does one answer a question like that? What's the point of such a question?"

    I think one point is that it allows voters and SDs to see something of how the candidates will survive under full pressure of a campaign.

    I don't expect McCain will smear Obama...but I would be surprised if the 527s didn't.

    I too would have preferred hard questions. For example:
    Senator Obama, you have talked about coming together and moving beyond the politics of the past. That is fine rhetoric, but how PRECISELY will you go about achieveing this as President?

    Senator Clinton, your former efforts to achieve Health Care reform failed under widespread opposition from the insurance industry. How PRECISELY do you intend to overcome this opposition to achieve your goals as President?

    With Moderators who would step in and PRESS the candidates, and not allow them to go "Blah blah blah" and evade the answers.

    To be honest, the only thing I got out of ALL the Democratic debates was the "Drivers License" issue...which Obama answered clearly, but where HRC answered in that weird triangulation of hers.
    That was VERY revealing of her thought processes, and a pivotal point in the campaign, I thought.

    I got nothing out of the Republican debates, as most of the players seemed absurd. "Fred Thompson" as the voice of American conservatism. God in Heaven.
  • elrod
    So debates are just useless performance gauntlets? Why not have them perform on Survivor? If they can stay on the island complete the obstacle course then they can be President!

    Seriously, there is a circularity to all this that's sickening. The media says: the general election will be like this so let's just start now. But who does it in the general election that way? The media.
  • McCain, after all, has shown he can take the hits of the Bush/Rove machine, as well as the NYT.

    Ummm... he lost to the Bush/Rove machine, and then kissed their asses as if they didn't try to destroy him with personal attacks.
  • mikkel
    Marlow's last comment reminded me of someone I read who said they should have had George Will be the moderator. I agree. There definitely needs to be at least one debate where a staunch but principled ideological opposite asks the real probing policy questions like he mentioned.

    I can't get too worked up that they focused on Obama so much because they would do the same to Clinton (and did) when she was front runner. Personally, I think at some point he needs to refuse to participate. If I were him, then ten minutes into it I would have gone Jon Stewart on their asses. It would have a historical moment and no one would have blamed him. The amount of anger I read last night from all quarters was crazy. I think at this point nearly every one feels that the media is a highly destructive force and they are the ones that set the discourse of the political campaign. They should have their debate on Comedy Central, it'd tell us a lot more.
  • CStanley
    elrod, I think the key to avoiding the circularity is to realize that the only way to get at the issues is by reading print media, blogs, and the candidate's own websites, speeches and issues statements- and reading them with a critical eye.

    There were a few points of substance in last night's debate- why not post about those things, instead of adding to the echo chamber about how lousy the MSM hosted debates are? And why don't bloggers press the candidates to do more Q&A?

    Step out of the circle.
  • elrod
    CStanley,
    There were miniscule moments of substance. Here's a fairly accurate rundown of the course of the debate:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/17/133...

    Even the substantive issues were 1988-era questions like Affirmative Action and guns.
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