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Will Obama Really Bring Change?

The conventional wisdom has been that Obama would be able to beat John McCain in November and that many independents and moderates would break for Obama. Many Republicans and centrists has been stirred by Obama’s healing rhetoric which is a breath of fresh air to many of us that are tired of eight years of partisan actions. Many Democrats like Obama more than Senator Hillary Clinton, who is viewed as too cynical. Many people think that Obama will beat John McCain to become the first African American president and the 44th person to occupy the office.

But as appealing as Obama is (and he does have an impressive background) there are some questions about the Illinois Senator. Personally, I get the feeling that Obama’s talk creates a wonderful picture, but that there is more going on than what we are seeing. I remember eight years ago, we heard George W. Bush talking about being a “uniter, not a divider.” He ran as someone who could reach across the isle to work with Democrats and presented himself as a “different kind of Republican.” Well, we know how that all turned out. Bush turned out to be far more reactionary and more partisan than we have ever expected. I might set some people off by saying this, but Obama at times reminds me of Bush in 2000 and that doesn’t leave me feeling all warm inside. I am worried that beneath this talk of change and hope, is someone who is very partisan and will not bring the healing he is talking about.

In his latest article, Stuart Taylor talks (again) about the whole Jeremiah Wright affair. In some ways he brings up the same argument we have heard before about why Obama stayed at Trinity UCC after hearing Wright’s incendiary talk over and over. Normally, I ignore this talk, but he brings a view that one should notice:

would the same Obama who lacked the fortitude to break with Jeremiah Wright be a good bet, if elected, to take on his party’s own special interests? To break, when circumstances warrant, with the across-the-board liberal orthodoxy he has long embraced? Curb entitlement spending? Temper excessive affirmative-action preferences? Tame the lawsuit lobby? Assign the teachers unions their share of the blame for what Obama calls “crumbling schools that are stealing the future”?

Could he get tough, when necessary, with fashionably leftist foreign dictators, highly politicized international institutions, and sanctimonious European America-bashers? Or would he instead heed such soothing platitudes as his wife’s February 14 assertion that “instead of protecting ourselves against terrorists,” we should be “building diplomatic relationships”?

Taylor wonders if he is able to sit and listen to Wright’s hard words, then will he be able to stand up to interest groups of the Left?

John McCain likes to fashion himself as a maverick. Some have said he isn’t that much a maverick, but regardless of that, he has more than once frustrated the base of the GOP by going his own way. He has worked with arch-liberal Ted Kennedy on immigration reform. He did join the “Gang of 14.” He has been willing from time to time to anger conservatives by working for the national interest. Hillary Clinton has also worked with Republicans from time to time. The thing is, Obama hasn’t really done as much to work across party lines. He has rarely gone beyond his liberal base. His words might show a willingness to be open to being less-ideological than the current President, but many of his actions show someone that is unwilling to challenge the “sacred cows” of the Left in the way that McCain has (at times) done on the Right.

What is also interesting is who is voting for Obama in the primaries. Michael Baronenotes that in many cases, Obama won in college towns and capital cities, where academics and public-sector workers live, and not in more blue-collar areas. Barone explains:

Relying on exit polls, analysts have been seeing the battle for the Democratic nomination as tribal warfare, between blacks and Latinos (and Jews), between young and old, between upscale and downscale. These analyses support that view and show another sharp division in Democratic ranks. Barack Obama, who started off with an appeal transcending race, has been able to win impressive percentages from white voters but seldom majorities. He gets majorities from whites only in his home state (Illinois), in states where the white Democratic primary electorate is unusually upscale and non-Jewish (Virginia, Vermont), and in mountain states where the cultural divide is not black-white: in New Mexico, where it is Anglo-Hispanic, in Utah, where it is Mormon-gentile. He gets in the mid-40s among white voters in states where most of them are from fast-growing metro areas (Georgia, Texas, California, Maryland).

But looking at these electoral data suggests to me that there’s another tribal divide going on here, one that separates voters more profoundly than even race (well, maybe not more profoundly than race in Mississippi but in other states). That’s the divide between academics and Jacksonians. In state after state, we have seen Obama do extraordinarily well in academic and state capital enclaves. In state after state, we have seen Clinton do extraordinarily well in enclaves dominated by Jacksonians.

Barone then explains the difference between academics and the Jacksonians:

Academics and public employees (and of course many, perhaps most, academics in the United States are public employees) love the arts of peace and hate the demands of war. Economically, defense spending competes for the public-sector dollars that academics and public employees think are rightfully their own. More important, I think, warriors are competitors for the honor that academics and public employees think rightfully belongs to them. Jacksonians, in contrast, place a high value on the virtues of the warrior and little value on the work of academics and public employees. They have, in historian David Hackett Fischer’s phrase, a notion of natural liberty: People should be allowed to do what they want, subject to the demands of honor. If someone infringes on that liberty, beware: The Jacksonian attitude is, “If you attack my family or my country, I’ll kill you.” And he (or she) means it.

Obama tends to fit the academic image and Clinton tends to fit the Jacksonians. In looking at all the exit polls, Barone notices that in many cases, the reason whites broke for Clinton over Obama had to do with something other than race:

When I first noticed Obama’s weak showings among Appalachians, I chalked them up, as many in the press will be inclined to do, to an antipathy to blacks. But that simply doesn’t hold up. Go back to 1995, and look at the polls that showed that most Americans would support Colin Powell for president. I don’t think you’ll find any evidence of resistance by Jacksonian voters to the Powell candidacy. Rather the contrary, I suspect. He was a warrior, after all, and always exudes a sense of command. Or go back and look at the election returns in 1989 in which Douglas Wilder became the first black governor in our history, in Virginia. Jacksonians in southwest Virginia showed no aversion to Wilder; rather the contrary. Take Buchanan County, which runs along both West Virginia and Kentucky, and which voted 90 percent to 9 percent for Clinton over Obama on February 12. In 1989, it voted 59 percent to 41 percent for Wilder over Republican Marshall Coleman. Overall, Wilder lost what is now the Ninth Congressional District (long known as the Fighting Ninth) by a 53 percent-to-47 percent margin. But that is far less than the 59 percent-to-39 percent margin by which George W. Bush beat John Kerry in the district in November 2004 or the 65 percent-to-33 percent margin by which Clinton beat Obama there in February 2008. Jacksonians may reject certain kinds of candidates, but not because they’re black. A black candidate who will join them in fighting against attacks on their family or their country is all right with them.

Now, things might change between now and November. Obama might be more of a centrist, he might be able to swing blue-collars his way. But some of this data leaves more questions than answers.

In my view, Senator Obama becomes more and more of an enigma every day.

  • Slamfu
    Well a good deal of skepticism when it comes to the promises of politicians isn't just healthy, its wise. I would argue however that Obama is the only one who can bring any real change. McCain, even though I respect him more than anyone else in the GOP, is still GOP. That party has run roughshod over not only our long term interests in the pursuit of their short sighted domestic agenda, but has diminished the core beliefs in judicial process and humanitarian treatment of prisoners. They need a trip to the woodshed for blatantly looking out for their interests ahead of those of the people. For the obfuscations and back room dealings that they have hid every step of the way from us. Also, McCain has stated in no uncertain terms that we are staying in Iraq despite the fact we have proven unable to make any headway in bringing law and order to that country. He will continue on the path that Bush has and I feel to no greater effect than Bush. Our soldiers and our money will vanish down that hole for as long as we let it.

    Clinton is even more tied to the past via her marriage. How we can even think to elect another family connected president is beyond me. Imagine if this were some other country, and for 20 years they speak of being the most democratic and free nation in the world, yet seem to have no other leadership options but members from 2 families. It would look bad because it is bad.

    It seems to me that people are against Obama because he speaks too much of how great things could be. I worry that should he get the Oval Office america will expect an overnight magical transformation where everything is right and we should all know thats not going to happen. Its going to happen in increments and with a good deal of work. Yet I feel he is the only one who offers even the promise of anything actually being different. I'm willing to take the chance that it can happen under an Obama administration.
  • superdestroyer
    Obama is a career Democratic activist from a one party city in a state that is now dominated by Democrats. To believe he will attempt anything other than boilerplate Democratic ideas is foolish. As a black community activist, the standard template is to say "Give me what I want or I will play the race card!" Why would Senator Obama do anything different as president. His idea of consensus is going exactly as he says.
  • Slamfu
    SuperD, like many on the far end of the political spectrum you are a complete prisoner of your of your own preconcieved notions. You're not going to let a little thing like Obama never really doing anything you just described keep you from believing that is exactly what he has done and will continue to do. He's going to do things different because its a) what will get elected and keep him there for a second term and b) its the right thing to do to get this country back on its feet.

    Obama has shown a pretty fair knack for tackling issues head on with what seems to be a minimum of checking with pollsters first. Moreover he seems to be more interested in long term results than partisanship which I also applaude. Also, along with McCain he seems to be one of only a small handful of senators from either party interested in curtailing lobbying.
  • djshay
    It's unbelievable to me that Rev. Wrights comments are STILL being used against Obama. It was a 30 second clip in a 20 Year career. If anyone would actually watch more of Rev. Wright's speeches than what was played in a loop on CNN, etc, his sermons are full of hope. There is a lot more to a person than a 30 second sound byte, but people are too shallow or too uninterested to actually do some research about this man. If you've a legitimate argument against Obama, then use, but Rev. Wright is not one of them.
  • superdestroyer
    slamfu,

    I believe that Senator Obama is a master of getting people to hear what they want to hear without parsing what he is saying. Use his position on vouchers where he said that he wills support them if they are shown to be effective. People began to say that Senator Obama supports Vouchers. In reality, he supports finding a way to keep voucher for interfering with the education establishment and the teachers unions.

    You can go through virtually every issue and find the same thing. Look at what happen in the Rev. Wright speech on race. He changed the subject from his actions of associating with a documented bigot and made it about how white people are all racist. The media immediately dropped the story. So do not tell me that Senator Obama is just not another black Democratic Chicago politician.
  • Look at what happen in the Rev. Wright speech on race. He changed the subject from his actions of associating with a documented bigot and made it about how white people are all racist.


    That's a ridiculous and erroneous simplification of a 30+ minute speech.
  • GeorgeSorwell
    It's true that past performance is no guarantee of future results.

    However, poor performance can be judged on its own merits, or lack of merits.

    How should the performance of Republicans be judged?

    Should there be no negative consequences for Republican performance on the war or the economy?

    And should there be no negative consequences for Republicans because--I can hardly believe this argument is being made with a straight face--Obama is scary?

    You know what scares me? Another term with a Republican in the White House.
  • PWT
    Slamfu,

    a) Saying he is going to do things differently is what is going to get him elected. You have to take that as an article of faith because he hasn't been able to demonstrate that he's done it in the past, do things differently that is.

    b) I didn't realize that the country had fallen down and couldn't get up. Sorry that you're among the 5% that is unemployed and that your American Dream has died.
  • GeorgeSorwell
    And am I the only one who thought Barone's argument that Obama only has a small base of support was a little, you know, Freudian?

    Or how about that Taylor argument that Obama is flawed because he's an actual liberal, whereas McCain is just a pandering cynic--is that supposed to make McCain look Presidential?
  • superdestroyer
    GeorgeSorwell,

    There is no reasons to defend the Republicans. They have been a total failure and will soon be irrelevant to politics. However, no matter how bad the Republicans have been, Senator Obama will lead as president similar to the way that most of the Democratic Senators would lead if they were president. He will have virtually the same cabinet that many other Democrats would have. He has the same special interest to answer to. He has the same value system. He will have programs and policies similar to those that most Democrats would have.

    In the end, it will be business as usual. If Senator Obama was a miracle worker,, he would have found at least one public school to send his children. Yet, he has made the same personal choices of entitlement that every other Democratic Party leader has made. Until Senator Obama demonstrate the ability to say no to the special interest he is just another career politician. However, he gives a great speech doing it.
  • If Senator Obama was a miracle worker,, he would have found at least one public school to send his children.

    To borrow a line from Mitt Romney... that's "a non-sequitur. It's a non -- null set."
  • Slamfu
    "I didn't realize that the country had fallen down and couldn't get up. Sorry that you're among the 5% that is unemployed and that your American Dream has died."

    Maybe you should try opening your eyes. Median income has stayed stationary while cost of living has been going up. Life is getting harder for people under the GOP ideal of economic prosperity. Our standing in the world is a ghost of what it used to be, and we are now counted among nations for whom torture is in the playbook as standard operating procedure. I don't know about you but that is not something I am proud of.

    National Debt has ballooned and the Dow Jones has posted how much growth since Jan 21st 2001? The US dollar is where? Our top notch financial institutions from wattchdog companies like Arthur Andersen(remember them?) to Bearn Stearns seem unable to see the forest for the trees when it comes to making a quick billion by trying ot rig the system. And our energy solutions proposed by the president? We'd like to comment on that but he hasn't even allowed us to know who was in the secret meetings about it in 2002 and 2003. But now oil is over $100/barrel and the VP's former company went from $6/share to $42 with two splits in there.

    And oh yea, while the rest of the up and coming nations are churning out engineers and scientists our president thinks creationism should be taught alongside biology. Meanwhile the nation is starving for technical specialists in just about every field. You hear that laughter? Lets get a real president in there and stop it.
  • Holly_in_Cincinnati
    As a center-left Democrat, I assert that Sen. Obama is neither qualified nor electable. Should my party be stupid enough to nominate Sen. Obama, Sen. McCain will win in a landslide.
  • Obama is both qualified and electable. After so much bull about Obama being thin on legislative accomplishments, and as much bull about Clinton's record, I have researched the records of both and conclude that they both have worked to support the positions they espouse, and I believe either one would make a far better president than McCain.

    I'm so tired of the GOP/Clinton/MSM meme that Sen. Obama is thin on specifics (which he isn't) and has a thin legislative history (which he doesn't). So, what has he done? And what has Sen. Clinton?

    First a tally from Politifact and their analysis is on the link.

    "The legislative accomplishments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama reveal different interests and styles. Obama shows a consistent interest in making government more open and efficient, while Clinton has a focus on health care efforts she started as first lady, though in a more incremental way."


    I'll leave Holly to cite Sen. Clinton's key accomplishments, which I do not disparage, but as the article above is about Obama, I'll focus on his.

    Most of Sen. Obama's legislative effort has been in the area of Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills), health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills), consumer protection/labor (14 bills), the needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills), Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills), Foreign Policy (10 bills) Voting and Elections (9 bills), Education (7 bills), Hurricane Katrina Relief (6), the Environment (5 bills), Homeland Security (4 bills), and discrimination (4 bills).  

    Of the 15 bills Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored in 2005-7 that became law:

    Two addressed foreign policy:
    Promote relief, security and democracy in the Congo (2125)
    Develop democratic institutions in areas under Palestinian control (2370).

    Three addressed public health:
    Improve mine safety (2803)
    Increased breast cancer funding (597)
    Reduce preterm delivery and complications, reduce infant mortality (707).

    Two addressed openness and accountability in government:
    Strengthening the Freedom of Information Act (2488)
    Full disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds (2590)

    Two addressed national security
    Extend Terrorist Risk Insurance (467)
    Amend the Patriot Act (2167)

    One addressed the needs of the Armed Forces
    Wave passport fees to visit graves, attend memorials/funerals of veterans abroad (1184).

    Of the 570 bills Senator Obama introduced into the Senate during the 109th and 110th Congress  (Senate Bill numbers are in parentheses), they can be summarized as follows:

    25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
    Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
    Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
    Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
    Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
    Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
    Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
    Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
    Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
    Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
    Alternative diesel standards (3554)
    Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
    Renewable diesel standards (1920)
    Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
    Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
    Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
    Climate change education (1389)
    Low income energy assistance (2405)
    Oil savings targets (339)
    Fuel economy reform (3694)
    Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
    Nuclear release notice (2348)
    Passenger rail investment (294)
    Energy relief for low income families (2405)

    21 addressed Health Care
    Drug re-importation (334)
    Health information technology (1262, 1418)
    Discount drug prices (2347)
    Health care associated infections (2278)
    Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
    Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
    Emergency medical care and response (1873)
    Stem cell research (5)
    Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
    Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
    Children’s health insurance (401)
    Home health care (2061)
    Medicare independent living (2103)
    Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
    Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
    Gynological cancers (1172)
    Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
    Paralysis research and care (1183)

    20 addressed Public Health:
    Violence against women (1197)
    Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
    Viral influenza control (969)
    End homelessness (1518)
    Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
    Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
    Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
    Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
    Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
    Healthy communities (1068)
    Combat methamphetamines (2071)
    Paid sick leave (910)
    Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
    Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
    Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)

    14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
    Stop unfair labor practices (842)
    Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
    Internet freedom (2917)
    Credit card safety (2411)
    Media ownership (2332)
    Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
    Working family child assistance (218)
    Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
    Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
    FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
    Working families flexibility (2419).

    13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
    Improve Benefits (117)
    Suicide prevention (479)
    Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
    Homes for veterans (1084)
    GI Bill enhancement (43)
    Military job protection
    Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
    Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
    Military children in public schools (2151)
    Military eye injury research and care (1999)
    Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
    Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
    Security of personal data of veterans (3592)

    12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
    Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
    Stop fraud (2280)
    Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
    Open government (2180, 2488)
    Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
    Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
    Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
    Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
    Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal
    contract (674)
    Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts
    (2147) Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)

    10 addressed Foreign Policy:
    Iraq war de-escalation (313)
    US policy for Iraq (433),
    Divestiture from Iran (1430)
    Sudan divestment authorization (831)
    Millennium Development Goals (2433)
    Multilateral debt relief (1320)
    Development bank reform (1129)
    Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).

    9 address Voting/Elections
    Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
    Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
    Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
    Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
    Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
    Election jamming prevention (4102)
    Campaign disclosure parity (223)
    Presidential funding (2412)
    Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)

    11 addressed Education
    Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
    Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
    Increase early intervention services (2111)
    Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
    Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
    Summer learning programs (116)
    TANF financial education promotion (924)
    Higher education (1642)
    Build capacity at community colleges (379)
    Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
    Support for teachers (2060).

    6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
    Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
    Emergency relief (1637)
    Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
    Working family tax relief (2257)
    Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
    Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)

    5 addressed the Environment
    Drinking water security (218, 1426)
    Water resources development (728)
    Waste water treatment (1995)
    Combat illegal logging (1930)
    Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
    Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]

    4 addressed Discrimination
    Claims for  civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
    Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
    Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
    Equality or two parent families (2286)

    4 addressed Homeland Security
    Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
    National emergency family locator (1630)
    Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
    Chemical security and safety (2486)

    Here's what the NY Times has to say about Obama in the Illinois statehouse. Here's a summary of his legislation there. Here's what the Washington Post says. A detailed history of all his and her significant legislation is here, here, here, here and here.
  • Slamfu
    I'm going to give GreenDreams the match on that one.
  • Don Quijote
    GreenDreams,

    And despite all those accomplishments, he will get his ass handed to him in November when he runs against McSame.

    The fine voters of OH, PA, FL, NJ will see the choice as being between an African-American & a Republican and will vote for the Republican, and all the red states that picked Obama will go Republican.
  • Slamfu
    I think you are confusing Obama's campaign with the previous two Democrat ones and Hillary's current one. It is Hillary, with roughly zero moderate appeal who would get her ass handed to her come November.
  • Don Quijote
    Slamfu,

    I believe that Hillary has a fighting chance against McSame and that Obama will lead the Republican Party to another great victory (think Reagan vs Dukakis where Obama plays the role of Dukakis), but we shall find out in another 6 month.

    You should never underestimate the innate racism of Americans.
  • StockBoySF
    GreenDreams- thanks!
  • StockBoySF
    We all knew that Bush was just making up his "compassionate conservative" and "I'm a uniter and not a divider" lines as part of politics. In real life Bush ran his TX oil companies into bankruptcy (I suppose he was drilling upwards, into the sky to accomplish that feat in TX). He was involved in all sorts of scandals- remember his insider trading scandal? What about his MIA while the Vietnam war was raging? And of course in college Bush was a cheerleader... And of course Bush was able to accomplish this with help and more help and rescues from his father and his father's friends.

    Obama, on the other hand did not come from a politically connected (nor wealthy) family, got into Harvard Law on his own merits, became President of the Harvard Law Review, and went on to a successful career, working up from the ground. (Unlike Hillary who woke up one day, decided to get into politics herself and used her husband's clout and the Democratic machine to propel her into the US Senate seat- at a time when Obama had already been in the IL legislature for several years.)

    So I think it's important to see what each candidate has accomplished on his/her own and whether they had a leg up due to some family (parents, husband or wife) connection.

    Obama had the most to overcome and he has achieved what he has today solely on his own. All the other candidates had family connections and got a leg-up that Obama did not have. Furthermore Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago, so he has a good understanding of the ideas of our founding fathers.

    But what really gets closes the deal for me with Obama is that after college he wanted to do good in the community. And he did. However he learned that he could be more effective if he had a law degree, so he went to the top law school and received one. Once he met Michelle he took her to community events and after a while Michelle became involved in community projects because of his influence. I think this shows that Obama is committed to wanting the community imroved- I mean if you take your date to these events and then after a while your date (or wife) starts becoming involved, that just shows he's committed and is able to draw people in. So I think Obama really wants to do good.

    However it was obvious that Bush, with his oil ties and Cheney with his oil ties (they are both neck-deep in the oil industry along with his anti-environmental policies, it was obvious that Bush was only in it to enrich his friends and family. Just like Hillary, with her ties to business and having been on the receiving end of so much corporate money over the years, Hillary sees the WH as a way of rewarding the people/corporations who have supported her/Bill over the last couple of decades. If you don't believe that, then just see who Bush's supporters were (and are) and who Hillary's supporters are.

    I'm not saying Obama is perfect- no one is. But he does seem to want to do good and his supporters are the people of the United States of America. Not some elite machine group of supporters who are tightly managed and give a gazillion dollars. Obama's supporters are the average American who wants change and who want their voices heard. The average American does not want their voice drowned out by some guy with $100 million dollars who has supported a politician for the last 20 years.
  • EEllis
    Bush was a small fry who started in the oil business trading leases in midland. His company Spectrum 7 was an exploration company was never worth more than a few mill. In the '80's the price of oil tanked and no one could of "run" it anywhere but down. There were people with leases who couldn't afford to pump oil out of established wells at $25 a barrel. His company didn't go bankrupt but was bought out by a company that was picking up a lot of troubled companies at the time. As a note Spectrum 7 was most likely acquired because of the Bush name but while it was 3 mil in debt it had over 4 mil in oil and gas reserves at the '87 prices. What does this have to do with the topic? Very little except to show how people twist and spin reality to fit what they want the facrts to be.
  • superdestroyer
    Greendreams,

    giving any Senator credit for co-sponsoring something is a joke. I guess that is like having a lower college admission standard for black students.

    The only credit a Senator should get is legislation that they and their staff wrote and sponsored. All you are going is giving Senator Obama credit for the work of others.

    Of course, what he co-sponsored is standard Democratric boilerplate legislation that most of the Democratic Senators co-sponsored. so, once again, what makes anyone think that Senator Obama is going to be different that any other Democratic should was running for office.
  • SD, Sullivan is very careful in his tally, which is the best I've seen. He admits the co-sponsor issue you raise, and eliminates citing anyone who co-sponsored after the first possible moment they could, usually the first day. Co-sponsors are often deeply involved in writing the bills, as in Lugar-Obama nonproliferation bill which was co-authored. But even if they didn't sit at the drafting table, co-sponsoring on the first day is most certainly a clear indication of strong support. Furthermore, Sullivan treats Clinton's and Obama's records the same, and you can find all her sponsorships and co-sponsorships on his list cited in my first post.
  • StockBoySF
    EEllis, "What does this have to do with the topic? Very little except to show how people twist and spin reality to fit what they want the facrts to be."

    The post is about whether Obama will bring about change, and there was talk of how other candidates' and Bush's words did not match actions.

    The point I was making about Bush is that he was baile dout of his business failures and then went on to politics through his family connections. Bush could say whatever was necessary because he had core support and the rest was filler, spun so people would vote for him.

    Obama, on the other hand, has no "built-in" connections. Obama has succeeded and over time has been able to form political networks on his own because of the strength of his intellect and ideas (agree with them or not is a different story). Obama had to succeed on his own. Granted Clinton started out with very little of this built-in support, but over the years (decades) the Clinton name has become very powerful and successful.

    That's the point I was making- Bush has never succeeded at anything on his own and Obama is successful because he has worked hard and relied on his strong ideas.
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