Comments on: For Iraq’s People, the Defeat of the ‘Gringos’ Makes Up for a Lot

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:24:52 +0000

The title is something we'd expect to hear from Chavez or a Che Guevara T-shirt-wearing radical in the USA.

By: runasim

runasim — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:01:30 +0000

Pacatrue,

I would think that repeated invasions and rule by outsiders would intensify, not diminish, resentment against the current variety of the same..
At one point, iraqis began to self-identify and 'Iraqis', and like all coherent groups, they would like to be in control of their own coutnry without outside interference.

Whether they are up to the task is a separate question.
Feelings and perceptions are not necessarily logical or pragmatic, right or wrong. It's simply perilous to be ignorant of them when entering foreign territory.

By: pacatrue

pacatrue — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:36:47 +0000

I've been reading a history of the Middle East, and the political entity governing the peoples who live in modern Iraq has changed so often in the last 3000 years, it's virtually impossible to keep track of. Christian, Jews, Muslims, Arab caliphates, Persian dynasties, Egyptian rulers, Mongol invaders, Turks, Turkmen, …. All of these “foreign boots” have governed Iraq for a century here, 3 centuries there, over and over. This doesn't mean I think the Iraq war was a good idea nor that the gains we are likely to see have been worth the civilian deaths. Still the claim that Iraqis have never been had a foreign occupier triumph caught my attention. How many centuries was the current Iraq part of Rome anyway?

By: Pyronite

Pyronite — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:05:32 +0000

For me, perhaps the most frustrating thing about Iraq is the lack of discussion regarding its people. I understand the value of American lives in Iraq, but discussion about the war (and any successes we might have) needs to be framed in a larger humanitarian picture.

Success in Iraq is not measured by the number of American deaths. If that is what the military is using to determine “success,” I cannot imagine what is going through their minds. If they are using military deaths as an insight into the state of innocent residents, I'd rather just hear the actual civilian count.

By: runasim

runasim — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:21:36 +0000

This is hardly the most academically detached article on the subject.
There are kernels of truth in it, however, for Americans to consider.

As the President,Ccongress and the military wrangle over what to do next, the Iraqis are destined to always remember that American boots are foreign boots, and their tramping all over Arab land.

We are naive in thinking that when different factions tolerate us, or even are grateful for our presence at times, that this means this insult to their sense of self-worth and self-determiantion will not be revisited again and again.
We mistake tactical co-operation for full gratitude.

My sense is that even gratitude is sincere, it is also bitter.