Im completely off topic…so ill end in saying Obama has the possibility to change this country in a positive way. Sure hes not strapped with an American Flag and singing God Bless America everyother second but he is a proud American. Hell what else would he be.
I'm a proud American, let down, but still proud even though I think that America has F*ckd up more than enough times. But I still think that America is a good country despite itself. They are going to try to turn Obama into an anti white, elitist liberal, anti American anti jew softy that cant protect America and probably a makaka too if it didn't get noose hanging George Allen's racist behind out. (THANK YOU VIRGINIA FOR KICKING HIM OUT). To be honest from what I have seen inside and out of the political spectrum I feel that hes a snowflake, that has fallen into a volcano. and has only one place to fall that wont burn him up. Which is near impossible right? Im over it all. Being black your never patriotic enough, even though youve had ancestors die for this country just like anyone else.
At the very least it has gotten more black people involved and that will either make more Martin Luther Kings…or more Malcom X's. If they continue attacking him on bs claims then I gurantee their will be a rise in true anti American blacks…that will believe the bull that anti American forces try to purport. I have so many friends that are black guys that feel they get more respect from muslims who see America in a negative way than from their own country. They are watching this election just like everyone else and if this ends badly, which I hope and pray it doesnt…but most likely will. Then all hell will break lose. Obama has opened a pandoras box to the minorities in this country…Perhaps thats not the right analogy but what I mean is now that he has ran such a good campaign and if he is not the nominee or elected in November then blacks and other minorities will begin to ask why later…why not now. In every facit of their lives…and if America doesnt stand for what it says its stands for; liberty and justice for all…then America will fall. I never once thought or think America will succomb to the pressure of a foreign entity, but like Rome will die from a cancer inside. This cancer is many different things, but left unchecked will destroy this country.

We shall see wont we…what America wants

My point with Obama would be that we all want those things (well, all of us who are not deranged, anyway). But what's the realistic plan for getting from A to Z on any particular, and is it at all feasible? Or is it just the usual populist promises?

The flap at DKos is indicative of a real internal party conflict, but the excess vitriol level evidenced is simply indicative of what passes for rational discourse at DKos, not the intensity and depth of the conflict within the Democratic Party itself. DKos is not the party, just as Freep or RedState are not the GOP.

1) Circling wagons and attacking bloggers and echo chambers. Yeah, definitely, and it isn't just politics. Try reading a message board that supports a particular American Idol contestant when someone posts a dissenting message. The swarm attacks with vehemence and cruelty. Try being the new hire who disagrees with the CEO in a board meeting. The attacks are much more civil, but no less profound.

2) I've admitted here that I am an Obama supporter (after Richardson dropped). That said, I've definitely seen an air of sexism in attacks, even on TMV's commenters, on Clinton and any supporters who happen to be female. References to PMS, getting panties in a bunch, getting hysterical, and on and on. One never knows when it's better to call it out and when better to ignore so that the bomb thrower gives up and moves on.

3) I don't read KOS or RedState or Michelle Malkin, etc., because they are echo chambers of varying sizes. I would guess that KOS is about as representative of Democrats as Michelle Malkin is of Republicans. While TMV seems to be about 50% Obama, at least we've got 20% McCain, 15% Clinton, and 15% none of the above. That's better than most places for diversity of opinion. Similarly, while we've a fair number of posters who love bomb throwing, labeling, and deriding, maybe half of the people here seem to like speaking to others. You take what you can get.

4) The current young generation are unfairly maligned. I'm teaching a college course this semester in which (I routinely try to brainwash them into socialism and) I think every single student has a job as well as taking courses. Some of them have full-time jobs and full-time classloads. Some do arrive late for my 8:30 class, but otherwise they appear to be working just as hard as me in college. The problem is that they are working about half the time selling clothes at the mall in order to eat instead of on their homework. The same laziness attacks on the current people in their 20s were used for my slacker generation, now in their 30s and early 40s. Every next generation is disrespectful and lazy in the view of the previous generations. (Which hints that 1) either it's false, or 2) it's true but is common to all people passing through early adulthood.)

Voters are thinking, “It's McCain and…. who? We're waiting… If those Democrats can't even come to an agreement and unite their own party, then they have problems and certainly won't work with Republicans. We know McCain is the Republican nominee so let's vote for him. Even Hillary Clinton likes McCain over Obama.”

Anyway, if voters aren't even thinking exactly those things, that's where this race is headed for the Dems.

I'd like to add that we've seen that experience is doesn't guarantee success (Bush was a gov of a big state and he's been Prez. for eight years, and he still doesn't know how to run the government) and Hillary and her husband have been around for the last couple of decades with plenty of political enemies (and many Americans find them both to be very divisive).

Obama may not have as much executive experience as Bush did, but he has far more legislative experience than Hillary (who only got the job by being the President's wife- otherwise she would have been an unknown from Arkansas and the NY voters would not have voted for her when she moved to NY to run for that seat. Obama had no political connections and has had to work his way up. He's also less divisive than Hillary.

So he does represent a break from the past- and there is no guarantee of his success, but then there never is with anyone. We have a real chance with a intelligent guy to make a break from our past fighting. And there are plenty of Republicans who DO like him. So let's not blow this chance.

Whateveritis….STOP IT!

….tell PayPal to stop with the obnoxious certificates!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I'm REALLY getting PO'd at PayPal for slapping me in the face everytime I re-load or go-to some page where they have one of those blog-ads that tries to pass me a 'certificate'.

“Check again on how many of those supporters really follow the Daily Kos. I think you'll find it's a distinct minority. ” — Jim_Satterfield

Got stats?

In the meantime, Kos is doing Obama no 'favors' here.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It's the squeaky wheel that gets noticed.]

Many Obama supporters are absolutely passionate, and maybe vehement as well. My concern is the “echo chamber effect,” where supporters only hear what they want to hear – it happens on both sides. For instance, while you'll find every little detail on Rezko or Wright at TM, you'll see nothing about the fact that Obama increased his delegate lead yesterday by 7, while I'm sure it's noted at every blog considered in the tank for Obama. And I'll bet most hard-core Obama-centric sites are playing down the Wright video's effect on the campaign.

The most passionate supporters are less likely I think, to be able to accurately assess the true state of the campaign. They've chosen the comfort of the echo chamber over the real world.

And of course, I think my plan is better than any of theirs.

cbpelto comments on the “Kos kids” representing the young that Obama appeals to. Check again on how many of those supporters really follow the Daily Kos. I think you'll find it's a distinct minority. I notice that I can't really tell who you support. Clinton? McCain? None of the above?

Jill points out pro-Obama bloggers being bullies. Lots of bloggers are bullies. I once had a really hard time deciding who I would vote for in the primaries. Then Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson and Bill Clinton (Who I voted for twice.) got rolling. Tell me, Jill, which is worse? BS from bloggers or BS from the candidate's own campaign? Hillary really, really irritates me with her constant endorsements of John McCain. Her campaign's attempts to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates as-is bother me. As more time has passed I see her as perfectly willing to take down the Democratic Party's chances in November if they have the gall to not have her as the nominee. And you think that some bloggers being jackasses is a worse thing?

Tully, actually I do believe I heard Obama acknowledging that his health care plan will not cover everyone but it is the best that can be done if you don't want national mandates.

Posted by Damozel | As D Cupples has already noted, diarists at Kos who support Hillary Clinton have decided that enough’s enough. Good for them. It’s about time Clinton supporters start speaking up against the abuse and insults of the Hillary-hating…

“This is the divisive fruit that Clinton has brought to the DNC table. Not pretty, is it?” — dogma

Are you having difficulty with 'target recognition' or English comprehension.

The Obama people at Kos are the ones who are 'not pretty', vis-a-vis the rational discussion of who should be the Democrat's nominee.

Why is it you say it's the Clinton people? Are you snorting a different color of chalk today?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I wanna new drug.... -- Huey Lewis and the News]

Maybe I'm just not cynical enough ” — ryan

Maybe because you haven’t ‘seen’ enough, just yet. I was a liberal too, until I turned 30. But, by then, 1980, the ‘Liberals’ were no longer ‘liberal’. They had mutated into Progressives.

“Your first point (that that current generation is “reprehensible”) is certainly true of members of any large group; I'm in my 30's, but my experience with people in the 20-30 age range leads me to believe that the events of the past twenty years have shaped them into people who care about the world greatly and will do their parents proud.” — ryan

The problem is that we’re not talking about a ‘generation’. We’re talking—in this venue and thread—of Kos Kids. Why do you have a problem recognizing the difference? Or is it part of your tactics to do so?

And I can agree the idea that what they’ve experienced—generationaly and otherwise—has impacted them. But that’s true for all of us. What’s your point? They’ve been ‘brain-washed’? By whom? The vaunted American public education system, perhaps?

As for caring for the world…..everyone does that. The only difference is how their care manifests itself.

Regarding doing ‘their parents proud’…..Kos Kids? Give me a break. Unless their parents are as FUBAR as they are. But that’s a possibility too. There’s no limitation to idiocy based on age.

“As to the second point – that Obama is not who he claims to be – that is a matter of judgment, and we all have to judge him based on what information is available.” — ryan

You betcha. I’ve learned, in the past 57+ years, many ways to evaluate people based on what they say and what they do. And, I think I’ve learned a tad more than you have. [Note: I’ve got a daughter your age.]

“I will trust my own judgment, which has served well in the past, and time will tell whether it's a choice that I regret or celebrate.” — ryan

You’re entitled to. However, please allow me the prerogative to do the same regarding YOUR ‘judgement’.

As for whether or not you learn from this ‘experience’—as you say—only time will tell.

Tell me….do you live in some large metropolitan area? Some likely target, perhaps?

Hope you live long enough to ‘learn’ from your ‘experience’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Good judgement is based on experience. Experience is based on bad judgement. -- Some general officer who came to address the assembled classes at Benning School for Boys, a.k.a., the US Army Infantry School]