Daily Kos “Bloggers’ Strike” Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic Rift
In yet the latest sign of how bitter the divisions in the Democratic party are getting in the epic battle between Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama for their party’s presidential nomination, some writers at Daily Kos have gone on “strike” due to what they charge is abuse aimed at them and Hillary Clinton.
These writers write the diaries on the right side of the page. The key post is by Alegre, a call for Hillary Clinton supporters to stop posting on Kos, or to take their writing elsewhere:
I’ve decided to go on “strike” and will refrain from posting here as long as the administrators allow the more disruptive members of our community to trash Hillary Clinton and distort her record without any fear of consequence or retribution. I will not be posting at DailyKos effective immediately. I will not help drive up traffic or page-hits as long as my candidate – a good and fine DEMOCRAT – is attacked in such a horrid and sexist manner not only by other diarists, but by several of those posting to the front page.
Alegre undermined the ire by going over to the other Big Democratic site, My DD, which has some posts often more sympathetic to Clinton.
To those who don’t visit blogs or get their news from them (which a recent poll shows includes the vast majority of the American public) this might seem to be a provincial conflict, but it is highly significant.
In political terms, it underscores the raw, angry and bitter rivalrly between supporters of Obama and Clinton (as I noted in my appearance on CNN’s blog segment last Sunday).
The mirror image distrust, hatred and dismissiveness felt by each side towards the others’ candidates accentuates by the day — raising the authentic prospect that even in an awful economy the Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory — as some supporters of the losing nomination candidate stay home.
How symbolic is it of the party’s worsening rift? ABC News’ Jake Trapper has covered it and even got an update comment from the site’s owner:
I asked Kos himself, Markos Moulitsas, what he makes of all this.
His response: “First, these people should read up on the definition of ‘strike.’ What they’re doing is a ‘boycott.’ But whatever they call it, I think it’s great. It’s a big Internet, so I hope they find what they’re looking for.”
In freedom of speech terms, the strike/boycott raises the issue of whether those online who don’t adhere to a certain line are subject to abuse or — a differing view — whether some are angry seeing views strongly expressed that differ from theirs on the same site (on both sides).
Indeed, big sites such as the progressive Daily Kos, My DD, and Huffington Post often contain various viewpoints within a defined ideological area. Ditto for Republican Red State.com. They are not quite as monolithic as their critics charge.
Pro-Clinton blogger Tom Watson writes:
A writer’s strike at DailyKos is the latest symptom of a fast-moving infection in the progressive blogosphere – the all-too-real political fissure driven by online bullying that shows no signs of healing by August. Does this virtual walk-out presage the real thing in Denver? Too early to tell, but the real anger among Democratic bloggers who do not ardently support Barack Obama swats down the dismissive conventional wisdom of “they’ll come back in the end” – at least for now.
Watson details the larger issue:
The resentment among non-Obama backers is growing rapidly – you can see it in the comments here, and I can see it in my emails. There’s a real split among party activists, and it’s getting wider.
Some of it is motivated by the media’s love affair with one candidate – and hatred for the other; Keith Olbermann’s embarrassment drove many over the edge. But much of it comes from boorish, Stalinist behavior online – the kind of “you’re either with us or against us” attitude we saw so much of when the Bush crowd was flying high. It’s disturbing, particularly because so many of the targets are women. This is not the Democratic Party many of us have worked for; this is not the progressive blogosphere we’ve supported.
On the other hand, bitterness in this race can be seen all around. Where progressive and moderate bloggers and commenters used to get worked up arguing about George Bush, there is now a real angry, scolding tone in many comments left by Clinton and Obama supporters.
Marc Ambinder notes that Alegre has set up The American Federation of Concerned Bloggers (AFCB) and the post on Kos generated more than 1100 comments “many of them supportive.”
He sees a bigger issue:
Who Hillary Clinton is and what she represents has been THE debate among Democratic activists for years. It is now THE national debate. The Democratic Party may well come together and support its nominee. But the debate about Clinton, her (and his) politics, the legacy, the tactics — will endure.
In short, the strike/boycott is a symptom — and with so many months to go until the Democratic convention, the prognosis for true Democratic Party unity going into the election seems “questionable.”
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60 Responses to “Daily Kos “Bloggers’ Strike” Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic Rift”
[...] Common Sense and Wonder wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptDaily Kos “Bloggers’ Strike” Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic Rift March 15th, 2008 by JOE GANDELMAN In yet the latest sign of how bitter the divisions in the Democratic party are getting in the epic battle between Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama for their party’s presidential nomination, some writers at Daily Kos have gone on “strike” due to what they charge is abuse aimed at them and Hillary Clinton. These writers write the diaries on the right side of t [...]
[...] Sweetness & Light wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt [...]
[...] Solomonia Blog and Community wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptDaily Kos “Bloggers’ Strike” Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic Rift March 15th, 2008 by JOE GANDELMAN In yet the latest sign of how bitter the divisions in the Democratic party are getting in the epic battle between Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama for their party’s presidential nomination, some writers at Daily Kos have gone on “strike” due to what they charge is abuse aimed at them and Hillary Clinton. These writers write the diaries on the right side of t [...]
Forming the circular firing squad.
I think this is a variant of the old adage, don't fall in love with your own press clippings. Over the course of time, it has struck me that somehow people get to thinking that posting an opinion in viewable text on a screen turns it into an unalterable fact.
The other failing is think you are somehow achieving a good by attempting to alienate the opposition from posting on the site……..when ultimately it is more what you don't know (or hear) is what's going to bite you in the *ss.
To the extent Kos is cavalierly celebrating its conversion into a Obama campaign website is just another undeniable sign that kids need to grow up.
And yet I continue to hear from Democratic bloggers that all is sweetness and light within the Democratic Party because everybody is happy with either of the choices available to them.
Clinton Bloggers “Go On Strike”
Despite the fact that they’re only a fraction of the voices coming out of the Daily Kos diarist Alegre has gone and started a "strike" over what they see as a pervasive and hostile anti-Clinton bias:
Over the past few months I’ve notice…
Hillary can end this division by stepping aside and letting the nomination go to Obama.
CO – The elections are causing friction across both sides of the aisle. Look at the division during the Romney-McCain primaries. Even the Dutch lad and his blog snipped over McCain and Romney. Most sites sponsor a candidate without mentioning the support or placing ads in the sidebar.
I agree with Rudi. This is nothing new and it's entirely predictable. I go to MyDD to hear what Clinton supporters say, knowing I won't be the only Obama fan. I go to Daily Kos to hear Obama's latest move. The blogosphere is a big place.
I can only hope that what all of us are getting from this process is greater personal insight into our criteria and improved judgment about others.
It is fascinating that our community is pondering, in the form of candidates, the relationship among experience, judgment, policy, eloquence, past, future, tolerance, intolerance, liberty, security, gender, race, …
[...] Original post by The Moderate Voice – Domestic and international news analysis, irreverent comments, original reporti… [...]
This reminds me of the French Revolution. First the Democrrats demonize their moderates (Lieberman). So the Democrats become Jacobins. Now the left is deciding who are the Mountain and who are the Jacobins. Now all we need is a Committee of Public Safety.
TO: Joe Gandelman, et al.
RE: What Does It Mean?
“This might seem to be a provincial conflict, but it is highly significant. In political terms, it underscores the raw, angry and bitter rivalry between supporters of Obama and Clinton.” — Joe Gandelman
I would suggest that it reflects on several things:
[1] The almost rabid dog-fight spirit of the so-called 'liberals'.
[2] Adversely on the Obama campaign as a whole, as it seems like the Obama camp has a spirit akin to Rev Wright.
[3] That the Kos community behaves, by and large, like those people in Hamas in attacking those who do not agree with them, in an effort to silence them.
And we want these sorts of people running the government?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Let all of the poisons of the Earth hatch out. -- Emperor Claudius, in I, Claudius]
[...] sure. It??s going to make any page look more sophisticated, elegant or mystwww.scrapbookgraphics.comDaily Kos ???Bloggers?? Strike??? Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic RiftDaily Kos ???Bloggers?? Strike??? Shows Increasingly Bitter Obama Clinton Democratic Rift March [...]
“To the extent Kos is cavalierly celebrating its conversion into a Obama campaign website is just another undeniable sign that kids need to grow up.”
To say the least. It's amazing that given how Nixonian Clinton is, it is the Obama side that has the children on it that are often not only arrogant and conceited but vicious and even vile, leading us adults who don't like Clinton to be sympathetic.
Look at it this way: Hillary Clinton declared that she had passed “The Commander-in-Chief Threshold.” She Declared it; she Asserted it. She also, generously perhaps because McCain had spent so many years as a POW, and endured torture, extended that “Threshold Passing” to her Republican opponent.
According to Hillary (as she likes to be called, like Cher and Bono andother Brand Name phenomena), Obama has not “Threshold Passed”. Why? Who knows. Hillary and McCain both avidly supported giving President Bush the war he wanted. Maybe spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a War That Never Ends makes a “Threshold Passer”.
Hillary, and her supporters, also declare and assert that “Hillary is ready”. They cite her resume, which, like all public figures including Obama and McCain, doesn't quite add up to all that much, and in Hillary's case is so filled with exaggerations and distortions and ellipses that it is comical.
I think Joe Gandelman hit it square and out of the park last weekend. I am running up on 60 and a Proud Baby-Boom Generation Liberal, but many of my cohort is threatened by Obama because he is young and we are not.
Forgive the redundancy of saying this, but I was a Clinton voter and defender (twice each, Buffalo NY hometown). I watched her twist Obama's words about the Republicans in a debate out of all sense. Almost as if truth depended upon the meaning of what is, is.
That old disgust rose in me and I said to myself why do I defend these people, Bill and Hillary?
The disgust that has been rising since I excused The Clinton's actions from the execution of Billy Rector through failed HillaryCare secret meetings through Marc Ric pardons and War Authorizations–and there is a great deal supporters of The Clinton's excuse by saying, “Well, their enemies are worse!”
I am not even an Obama-Bot. I am too old to even know what that means, (Obama robot, I guess). I am just someone who thinks Obama, with all his flaws is capable of leading us into the future and reaching out to the young. Hillary's history and Resume tells me, she is capable of reaching out to her friends and Bill's friends for endless and pointless battles.
Who needs all the excuse-making and divisions that Hillary Clinton brings? Not me.
[...] likely exclusively bloggers or kos regulars Joe Gandelmen of The Moderate Voice is right when he describes it as a symptom of something [...]
My personal experience has been that while the Clinton campaign team is more vicious in its attacks on Obama, the Obama supporters are more vicious in their attacks on Clinton. Perhaps the Clinton campaigns attacks drive the Obama supporters, but it's odd that followers of a candidate who is trying to bring civility back to the process are often the more uncivil of the two sides. As a result, it is understandable that Clinton supporters might want to leave dailykos.
It's far too easy and common in the political world to paint any group by its most extreme elements – liberals are all “Cindy Sheehans” and conservatives are all followers of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. The truth is much less interesting, and it would probably do us all some good to remember that most people who have chosen to identify themselves with a candidate or party do so for generally sensible reasons and try to treat those with opposing views respectfully.
TO: tjproudamerican
RE: Heh
“I am just someone who thinks Obama, with all his flaws is capable of leading us into the future and reaching out to the young.” — tjproudamerican
If the Kos Kids are an example fo 'the young' Obama appeals to, the sort of 'future' he can lead US into looks very bad. If you think the vitriol is bad now….just wait until that sort get REAL power.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[When our friends come into power, they are no longer our friends.]
The psychology of blogs is fascinating tI reflects the real world, but as if in a kaledoxcope, sort of like soundbite news.
Dave Schuller wonders about the sweetness and light' atmosphere claimed by some Democrats. Off line, and away from blogs, that's exatly what I I hear, though.
Perhaps the low-keyed people who prefer to contempalte rather than fight just don't participate.
I oftern worry what that says about me..
Sorry, the previous comment should have read “while the Clinton campaign team is more vicious in its attacks on Obama, the Obama supporters are more vicious in their attacks on Clinton SUPPORTERS.” This site could definitely use a preview button (hint, hint).
cbpelto -
“If the Kos Kids are an example fo 'the young' Obama appeals to, the sort of 'future' he can lead US into looks very bad. If you think the vitriol is bad now….just wait until that sort get REAL power.”
Without excusing some of the behavior that has been seen online, the current twenty-somethings haven't had a lot of good examples to follow – a twenty year old probably has a vague memory of Clinton's second term and the full Bush II Presidency – not the best model. To that generation Obama represents the way politics SHOULD be, and seeing that attacked is analagous to a real-life Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. That fact doesn't excuse the worst of the behavior, but I also don't think that behavior is representative of the next generation, and should Obama win and practice what he preaches it would set a positive example for a generation that hasn't yet had a good example to follow.
It's all pretty silly. This year is no different from 2004. DKos was Deaniac HQ then, and other blogs leaned toward other candidates. Supporters gravitate to the blogs that lean toward their favorite, et voila, multiple echo chambers where readers and commenters only hear what they want to hear.
I seldom read DKos, so I have little idea what's going on over there. But I'll bet most of the real nastiness comes from commenters or the off-broadway diarists rather than the main “front pagers.”
It's funny. I first heard about the “strike” on Taylor Marsh's site – where, let's just say “passionate,” Clinton fans hang out. I commented on the obvious irony of running from one echo chamber, DKos, to another,Taylor Marsh, in the nicest possible way. My comment was immediately attacked multiple times, I was told “b*tch is the new black” etc. On the post lamenting the poor treatment of Clinton fans at Obama-centric sites. Circular logic, circular firing squad.
I'll be glad when it has been settled.
Sheesh – this is like the Obama-Wright thing. One of my first posts on TMV was asking the question, when does our divergence from a previously revered without question leader become so much that we have to reject it. And I got slammed.
But I also wrote on and on in a later comment thread about the viciousness of pro-Obama bloggers on some Ohio blogs and their bullying behavior. And again, there were a few commenters who either thought I was making it up, exaggerating or otherwise not credible.
You want to ignore something even if you don't experience it? Fine. But all this stuff is out there and people should be listening and reflecting the first time around not the 100 millionth. Any person we support to be the next president damn well needs to get that listening thing down, certainly better than a lot of blog readers who can't see past their own preferences.
(Sorry for the terse tone but once in a while, affirmation of what one has been saying all along is really nice.)
Jillmz
I totally agree that the Obama supporters are internet bullies. I have seen it all over the internet. That is not to say that Clinton does not have her bullies but the fact of the matter is that no matter how you slice it the far left have endorsed Obama while giving up on Hillary while at the same time convincing themselves that Obama's mild manner will get things done.
I firmly and without a doubt believe that what they really believe is that as Barak Obama puts it himself:
Obama has promised that as president that he would find a way to “stop fighting with Republicans and bring them over to our side.” He made that very pledge in Houston on Tuesday night.
I truly believe in talking to people around the country that they believe that there is only one side and that Barak Obama will somehow find a way to do what he stated here.
This is what drives the Barak Obama express train to the White House. Time will tell but somehow I do not think that Republicans will abandon their principals and embrace Barak Obama's because he is such a likeable fella.
I am so confused.
I thought, based on what people have been saying on this site for years, that only Republicans and Conservatives engaged in character assassination and the politics of destruction.
I though Democrats and Liberals were incapable of bullying and intimidating tactics.
What next, a Democrat resigning over a sex scandal?
whocares:
“Time will tell but somehow I do not think that Republicans will abandon their principals and embrace Barak Obama's because he is such a likeable fella.”
There may be some Obama supporters who believe that partisan rancor and disagreements will disappear if he takes the White House, but Obama himself has made it clear that such a scenario isn't reality. What he offers is a strategy of looking for common ground and working from there, rather than the “I will fight them” approach of Senator Clinton. If Clinton or McCain becomes President they will likely be working with a 51% majority; if Obama becomes President there is at least a chance that he will work on issues for which he can garner broader support. Finding solutions that involve listening to both sides and finding solutions that address the concerns of both offers the hope of getting things done in a way that differs from the “we win you lose” approach of the past 15 years.
Oh I know what he is trying to say Ryan. You make the point for me.
When Obama says something it is then taken to mean whatever the proponents of his message want it to mean. It reminds me of parables in the bible. Everyone can read it and take away a different meaning.
I cited a very explicit example of what Obama proclaims is his aims. Then you say no thats not what he means. What he really means is this cause he said so somewhere else.
The point with Barak Obama becomes that he is very ambiguous as to exactly what he does mean and he is allowing his supporters to believe any and all positives while rejecting any and all negatives that might be construed as part of the message.
Therefore what you have is a base of supporters who believe very simply that they will get what they want because they have convinced themselves he can deliver when there is nothing in his history to suggest that he is capable of doing any of the things that his supporters claim he will do.
This is called the self fulfilling prophecy. It also in Politics leads to huge disappointments because No man can live up to the pedestal that Obama supporters are putting him on.
[...] Via the Moderate Voice, Tom Watson, a Clinton supporter, gets real: The resentment among non-Obama backers is growing rapidly – you can see it in the comments here, and I can see it in my emails. There’s a real split among party activists, and it’s getting wider. Some of it is motivated by the media’s love affair with one candidate – and hatred for the other; Keith Olbermann’s embarassment drove many over the edge. But much of it comes from boorish, Stalinist behavior online – the kind of “you’re either with us or against us” attitude we saw so much of when the Bush crowd was flying high. It’s disturbing, particularly because so many of the targets are women. This is not the Democratic Party many of us have worked for; this is not the progressive blogosphere we’ve supported. Without blaming the worthy candidacy of Senator Obama in any way, this is not a progressive movement – it’s a harsh, echo-filled politburo bathed in faux post-racial hosannas and the gauzy camera lens of “hope.” [...]
[...] Joe Gandelman, Tom Watson (a Clinton supporter) sees a big part of the problem in “boorish, Stalinist [...]
TO: ryan
RE: Yeah?
“….I also don't think that behavior is representative of the next generation, and should Obama win and practice what he preaches it would set a positive example for a generation that hasn't yet had a good example to follow.” — ryan
In the first place, their comportment is reprehensible. And their leader, Kos, is equally so. The point here being that despite your apologetics, they are still, the wrong sort of people to run a country equipped with nuclear weapons.
In the second place, you're assuming that Obama is what he claims to be. The point in this case is that there are counter-indicators; his spiritual mentor being only the most recent 'revelation'.
If you care to roll those dice, I think you've got serious problems with reality.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A tree is known by its fruit. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago.]
P.S. That means it—a tree—is not known by what someone calls it. Or would you care to eat a salad I prepare for you. Are you allergic to poison ivy? If I tell you it's arugula?
whocares: While Obama supporters may in fact be guilty of seeing in him what they want to see, for my part I trust in my own judgment enough to feel confident of knowing when I'm being sold a bill of goods. When I hear “stop fighting with Republicans and bring them over to our side”, combined with his record of finding common ground between different sides (see his record in Illinois and in his Senate record), the meaning seems clear. I would argue against the statement that “there is nothing in his history to suggest that he is capable of doing any of the things that his supporters claim he will do”, but only time will tell. As with any election, it isn't certain that the person running will live up to expectations, but Obama is the first in a long time who has been able to inspire vast numbers of people to believe that a better type of politics is possible; we can either cynically dismiss that inspiration as an impossible illusion, or trust in our judgment and hope that we have judged correctly.
cbpelto: “If you care to roll those dice, I think you've got serious problems with reality.”
Maybe I'm just not cynical enough
Your first point (that that current generation is “reprehensible”) is certainly true of members of any large group; I'm in my 30's, but my experience with people in the 20-30 age range leads me to believe that the events of the past twenty years have shaped them into people who care about the world greatly and will do their parents proud. As to the second point – that Obama is not who he claims to be – that is a matter of judgment, and we all have to judge him based on what information is available. I will trust my own judgment, which has served well in the past, and time will tell whether it's a choice that I regret or celebrate.
In Support of the Kos Boycott
Diarists at Kos—which I admit I rarely look at—who support Hillary Clinton have decided that enough’s enough. Good for them. It’s about time Clinton supporters start speaking up against the abuse and insults of the Hillary-hating O-bot contingent…
The Media
by Damozel and D. Cupples| We’ve been worried about this for weeks — a possible backlash from Hillary Clinton’s supporters against pro-Obama (anti-Hillary) media outlets and the passive-aggressive bashing of Hillary that appears to be approved by th…
Hillary Clinton Supporters at Daily Kos Go On Stri
Republicans have despaired about whether there is any chance of electing a Republican as President but increasingly they are saying, “Yes we can!”
combined with his record of finding common ground between different sides (see his record in Illinois and in his Senate record), the meaning seems clear.
Working hand in hand on issues facing a state and even more precisely facing a part of the state is all about giving and taking. You give your vote for Chicagos needs in exchange for their vote for your needs in upper Illinois. It is nothing but give and take. Anyone that does not learn this on day one is not going to be very successful in state politics.
So You are kidding, right? His record in the United States Senate is nothing short of Exemplary.
From MSNBC: You know the network that is leading the Get Obama Elected Campaign.
A solid party loyalist
Obama’s roll call votes in 2005, 2006 and 2007 have been analyzed by the non-partisan journal Congressional Quarterly which found him to be a Democratic Party loyalist.
This once again is Obama supporters seeing what they wish to see. How one can square voting squarely with your own party as being someone who will reach across the isle is totally beyond me.
Once again I must return to my original comment which was that the left who have embraced Barak Obama believe that he will get them what they want. His solid and unwavering left record along with stated goals of bringing them to “OUR SIDE” simply to me paint a different picture of the senator.
So while I respect your views and understand the conclusions you are reaching I do not share your hope and optimism and the pragmatism that plagues my life just paints another picture of the Senator from Illinois.
Yes, if you insist on asking it the way Bill Clinton proposed: I am willing to roll the dice with Obama, rather than go back to The Clinton Years of The World vs. The Clinton's, and The Clinton's meager accomplishments.
I also think any honest analysis of Obama and his career illustrates that it is NOT a roll of the dice. Obama has said that his Health Care Plan will cover everyone; he has said he wants to stop the war between Americans; he has said he wants honest budgets; like McCain and Hillary, he has plans and a record.
People will see for themselves what Obama does if he is elected. Hillary is a known quality and many Americans, even some of us who did support her and her husband, don't want The Clinton Era back. Hillary promised 200,000 new jobs in Western New York (my home) and we lost some 40,000 jobs. I think that is The Clinton's: if you think +200,000= minus 40,000, and then defend your Math by saying, as Hillary does, “It is all the fault of others,” vote for her and God Bless you.
I am tired of the excuse-making that comes with backing Clinton's, tired of their ability to inspire ugly politics and “with us or against us” schisms.
People my age, almost sixty, should stop circling our wagons, and let a new generation lead us to the next stops on our Journey.
Obama has said that his Health Care Plan will cover everyone; he has said he wants to stop the war between Americans; he has said he wants honest budgets; like McCain and Hillary, he has plans and a record.
What about ponies?
This is the divisive fruit that Clinton has brought to the DNC table. Not pretty, is it?
Hola MikeP!!
Was wondering if that was you who popped in at Taylor Marsh today
I am a passionate supporter of Hillary, yes!
Certainly Obama supporters are 'vehement' in their support of him yes?
Happy St Paddys Day-
“cbpelto: “If you care to roll those dice, I think you've got serious problems with reality.”
Maybe I'm just not cynical enough
” — ryan
Maybe because you haven’t ‘seen’ enough, just yet. I was a liberal too, until I turned 30. But, by then, 1980, the ‘Liberals’ were no longer ‘liberal’. They had mutated into Progressives.
“Your first point (that that current generation is “reprehensible”) is certainly true of members of any large group; I'm in my 30's, but my experience with people in the 20-30 age range leads me to believe that the events of the past twenty years have shaped them into people who care about the world greatly and will do their parents proud.” — ryan
The problem is that we’re not talking about a ‘generation’. We’re talking—in this venue and thread—of Kos Kids. Why do you have a problem recognizing the difference? Or is it part of your tactics to do so?
And I can agree the idea that what they’ve experienced—generationaly and otherwise—has impacted them. But that’s true for all of us. What’s your point? They’ve been ‘brain-washed’? By whom? The vaunted American public education system, perhaps?
As for caring for the world…..everyone does that. The only difference is how their care manifests itself.
Regarding doing ‘their parents proud’…..Kos Kids? Give me a break. Unless their parents are as FUBAR as they are. But that’s a possibility too. There’s no limitation to idiocy based on age.
“As to the second point – that Obama is not who he claims to be – that is a matter of judgment, and we all have to judge him based on what information is available.” — ryan
You betcha. I’ve learned, in the past 57+ years, many ways to evaluate people based on what they say and what they do. And, I think I’ve learned a tad more than you have. [Note: I’ve got a daughter your age.]
“I will trust my own judgment, which has served well in the past, and time will tell whether it's a choice that I regret or celebrate.” — ryan
You’re entitled to. However, please allow me the prerogative to do the same regarding YOUR ‘judgement’.
As for whether or not you learn from this ‘experience’—as you say—only time will tell.
Tell me….do you live in some large metropolitan area? Some likely target, perhaps?
Hope you live long enough to ‘learn’ from your ‘experience’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Good judgement is based on experience. Experience is based on bad judgement. -- Some general officer who came to address the assembled classes at Benning School for Boys, a.k.a., the US Army Infantry School]
TO: dogma
RE: Eh?
“This is the divisive fruit that Clinton has brought to the DNC table. Not pretty, is it?” — dogma
Are you having difficulty with 'target recognition' or English comprehension.
The Obama people at Kos are the ones who are 'not pretty', vis-a-vis the rational discussion of who should be the Democrat's nominee.
Why is it you say it's the Clinton people? Are you snorting a different color of chalk today?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I wanna new drug.... -- Huey Lewis and the News]
Why I Support the Boycotters of Kos
Posted by Damozel | As D Cupples has already noted, diarists at Kos who support Hillary Clinton have decided that enough’s enough. Good for them. It’s about time Clinton supporters start speaking up against the abuse and insults of the Hillary-hating…
This whole comment thread has been pretty pathetic.
cbpelto comments on the “Kos kids” representing the young that Obama appeals to. Check again on how many of those supporters really follow the Daily Kos. I think you'll find it's a distinct minority. I notice that I can't really tell who you support. Clinton? McCain? None of the above?
Jill points out pro-Obama bloggers being bullies. Lots of bloggers are bullies. I once had a really hard time deciding who I would vote for in the primaries. Then Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson and Bill Clinton (Who I voted for twice.) got rolling. Tell me, Jill, which is worse? BS from bloggers or BS from the candidate's own campaign? Hillary really, really irritates me with her constant endorsements of John McCain. Her campaign's attempts to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates as-is bother me. As more time has passed I see her as perfectly willing to take down the Democratic Party's chances in November if they have the gall to not have her as the nominee. And you think that some bloggers being jackasses is a worse thing?
Tully, actually I do believe I heard Obama acknowledging that his health care plan will not cover everyone but it is the best that can be done if you don't want national mandates.
Tully,
And of course, I think my plan is better than any of theirs.
God, I wish that we could edit our own comments so I could fix that typo in my closing bold tag.
ginaswo -
Many Obama supporters are absolutely passionate, and maybe vehement as well. My concern is the “echo chamber effect,” where supporters only hear what they want to hear – it happens on both sides. For instance, while you'll find every little detail on Rezko or Wright at TM, you'll see nothing about the fact that Obama increased his delegate lead yesterday by 7, while I'm sure it's noted at every blog considered in the tank for Obama. And I'll bet most hard-core Obama-centric sites are playing down the Wright video's effect on the campaign.
The most passionate supporters are less likely I think, to be able to accurately assess the true state of the campaign. They've chosen the comfort of the echo chamber over the real world.
TO: Jim_Satterfield
RE: Kos Kids for Obama
“Check again on how many of those supporters really follow the Daily Kos. I think you'll find it's a distinct minority. ” — Jim_Satterfield
Got stats?
In the meantime, Kos is doing Obama no 'favors' here.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[It's the squeaky wheel that gets noticed.]