Comments on: Hypocrisy and Moralism: The Fall of Eliot Spitzer and the Rise of the Double Standard http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/ An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:29:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: CStanley http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135103 CStanley Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:44:56 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135103 Kim, are you thinking about a career change? ;-)<br><br>Keep in mind that the $5500, as I understand it, was what the agency charged. I have no idea how much goes to management and how much the 'worker' actually receives. Of course even a 20% cut of that would be a pretty big hourly rate, but I still think it bears mentioning. Personally I think the girls end up giving up far more than they get, and no amount of financial compensation could make up for that, but others may disagree on that point. I actually think that men who visit prostitutes or those who condone it are engaging in rationalization, and perhaps the high fees make them feel less like they're exploiting the women. Trouble is that no matter how much money is paid for services, there isn't a price that can ameliorate the humiliation of selling one's body. Kim, are you thinking about a career change? ;-)

Keep in mind that the $5500, as I understand it, was what the agency charged. I have no idea how much goes to management and how much the 'worker' actually receives. Of course even a 20% cut of that would be a pretty big hourly rate, but I still think it bears mentioning. Personally I think the girls end up giving up far more than they get, and no amount of financial compensation could make up for that, but others may disagree on that point. I actually think that men who visit prostitutes or those who condone it are engaging in rationalization, and perhaps the high fees make them feel less like they're exploiting the women. Trouble is that no matter how much money is paid for services, there isn't a price that can ameliorate the humiliation of selling one's body.

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135102 kritt11 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:09:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135102 It's true that there are few other professions where a woman can earn $5500 an hour! What do they do for that kind of money? You could work 10 hours a year and still live pretty well! It's true that there are few other professions where a woman can earn $5500 an hour! What do they do for that kind of money? You could work 10 hours a year and still live pretty well!

]]> By: cosmoetica http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135101 cosmoetica Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:18:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135101 SD: 'I find it amazing that so-called progressive who talk about women's right and political correctness have now become libertarians when it comes to prostitution. Prostittuion exploits women and cuts them off from many other futures.'<br><br>The sex business is one of the few areas where women can control their financial stake more than others- just look at the call girl ring Spitzer used. A 23 year old woman became a millionaire.<br><br>Put away the claptrap and Linda Lovelace agitprop. There's a reason why porno dominates the Internet- there's a huge audience, male and female for it. Like any biz, there CAN be exploitation, but compared to corporate America, there is no glass ceiling in porno. SD: 'I find it amazing that so-called progressive who talk about women's right and political correctness have now become libertarians when it comes to prostitution. Prostittuion exploits women and cuts them off from many other futures.'

The sex business is one of the few areas where women can control their financial stake more than others- just look at the call girl ring Spitzer used. A 23 year old woman became a millionaire.

Put away the claptrap and Linda Lovelace agitprop. There's a reason why porno dominates the Internet- there's a huge audience, male and female for it. Like any biz, there CAN be exploitation, but compared to corporate America, there is no glass ceiling in porno.

]]> By: CStanley http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135100 CStanley Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:37:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135100 I agree, Kim, which is why I'd love to see the placard I described (or maybe a big 'scarlet P'!<br><br>As to power going to their heads....well, <i>someone's</i> got to give the punchline after that straight line, so I'll take care of it:<br>Which head would that be? :-D I agree, Kim, which is why I'd love to see the placard I described (or maybe a big 'scarlet P'!

As to power going to their heads….well, someone's got to give the punchline after that straight line, so I'll take care of it:
Which head would that be? :-D

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135099 kritt11 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:55:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135099 I think most of these wives already are aware of the slimy behavior of their husbands. The kicker is to have to stand nobly by their sides suffering unending public embarrassment and humiliation.<br><br>I'm not trying to be sexist or anything, but this problem seems much more prominent with male politicians who let power go to their heads. I think most of these wives already are aware of the slimy behavior of their husbands. The kicker is to have to stand nobly by their sides suffering unending public embarrassment and humiliation.

I'm not trying to be sexist or anything, but this problem seems much more prominent with male politicians who let power go to their heads.

]]> By: CStanley http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135098 CStanley Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:48:06 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135098 Concerning the wives of these politicians, I had a thought. I'd love to see the next guy who gets caught with trousers down having to come out (alone) at the press conference with a sandwich board around his neck reading "My wife refused to appear with me today because I'm a prick." Concerning the wives of these politicians, I had a thought. I'd love to see the next guy who gets caught with trousers down having to come out (alone) at the press conference with a sandwich board around his neck reading “My wife refused to appear with me today because I'm a prick.”

]]> By: CStanley http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135097 CStanley Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:40:06 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135097 Read the paragraph about how "Republicans handle these things" again. Does anyone notice that it's (step by step) EXACTLY the way Bill Clinton 'handled these things"? And no, I'm not using the "Clinton did it too" argument- MS was actually the one who brought up Clinton. Stunningly, he found it possible to write out EXACTLY what Bill Clinton did after the Lewinsky affair became public knowledge, yet failed to notice that what he wrote to describe GOP behavior was precisely what Clinton did, and then followed up with a sentence about how Clinton was persecuted by Gingrich.<br><br>Gingrich was hypocritical, so I'm not arguing that. Though the part about how he didn't suffer for it? You mean the former Speaker of the House who is now holding um....what elected position, exactly? Does anyone deny that Gingrich would have been a likely successor to Reagan had he not had his fall from grace? Read the paragraph about how “Republicans handle these things” again. Does anyone notice that it's (step by step) EXACTLY the way Bill Clinton 'handled these things”? And no, I'm not using the “Clinton did it too” argument- MS was actually the one who brought up Clinton. Stunningly, he found it possible to write out EXACTLY what Bill Clinton did after the Lewinsky affair became public knowledge, yet failed to notice that what he wrote to describe GOP behavior was precisely what Clinton did, and then followed up with a sentence about how Clinton was persecuted by Gingrich.

Gingrich was hypocritical, so I'm not arguing that. Though the part about how he didn't suffer for it? You mean the former Speaker of the House who is now holding um….what elected position, exactly? Does anyone deny that Gingrich would have been a likely successor to Reagan had he not had his fall from grace?

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135096 kritt11 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:28:21 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135096 I'm torn on this issue. I think a politician's sex life should be off bounds (unless he's a pedophile or rapist ) but when the pol takes a holier than thou attitude with the unwashed masses but gives his own behavior a pass, it is rather unforgivable.<br>I could forgive Clinton, because he wasn't thundering against adulterers. Spitzer joins Wolfowitz in the brilliant but brain-dead category. I'm torn on this issue. I think a politician's sex life should be off bounds (unless he's a pedophile or rapist ) but when the pol takes a holier than thou attitude with the unwashed masses but gives his own behavior a pass, it is rather unforgivable.
I could forgive Clinton, because he wasn't thundering against adulterers. Spitzer joins Wolfowitz in the brilliant but brain-dead category.

]]> By: superdestroyer http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135095 superdestroyer Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:13:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135095 I find it amazing that so-called progressive who talk about women's right and political correctness have now become libertarians when it comes to prostitution. Prostittuion exploits women and cuts them off from many other futures. You want a culture where people put off immediate gratification for long term gains. Working as a prostitute is the exact opposite. <br><br>I would love to see the proposal for OSHA regulations on prostitutions from the progressives who now claim to want to legalize prostitution. <br><br>Also, I wonder if Europe is more tolerate because Europe is more open about people being locked into their class. In the U.S., people do not want their daughters growing up to be prostitutes. In Europe, it is the job of immigrants and the underclass to be prostitutes. I find it amazing that so-called progressive who talk about women's right and political correctness have now become libertarians when it comes to prostitution. Prostittuion exploits women and cuts them off from many other futures. You want a culture where people put off immediate gratification for long term gains. Working as a prostitute is the exact opposite.

I would love to see the proposal for OSHA regulations on prostitutions from the progressives who now claim to want to legalize prostitution.

Also, I wonder if Europe is more tolerate because Europe is more open about people being locked into their class. In the U.S., people do not want their daughters growing up to be prostitutes. In Europe, it is the job of immigrants and the underclass to be prostitutes.

]]> By: cosmoetica http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135094 cosmoetica Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:43:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135094 DLS: 'It obviously was not "victimless."'<br><br>Who is the victim of the sex act? Spitzer? The call girl? The wife? Getting feelings hurt does not make one a victim- a pitiable or pathetic person, perhaps- esp. if she forgives him. But there was no victim. DLS: 'It obviously was not “victimless.”'

Who is the victim of the sex act? Spitzer? The call girl? The wife? Getting feelings hurt does not make one a victim- a pitiable or pathetic person, perhaps- esp. if she forgives him. But there was no victim.

]]> By: Slamfu http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135093 Slamfu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:45:02 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135093 Well there is a distinction to be made in the public and private sectors. Elected officials are not there to make sure society turns a profit and grows double digits each year to sustain shareholder values. They are there to make sure society works, and there are many factors like trust as well as skill go into that. I personally loathe hippocrites and don't think they make solid decisions. They are also intrinsically untrustworthy due to their unbelievable skills at rationalization. <br><br>I would say the better case for wanting him to resign is his hypocrisy, which I would also apply to a CEO come to think of it. Cheating is itself hypocrisy, but Spitzer's is augmented by the fact he actually, personally put people in jail for this shit. He can walk on. Well there is a distinction to be made in the public and private sectors. Elected officials are not there to make sure society turns a profit and grows double digits each year to sustain shareholder values. They are there to make sure society works, and there are many factors like trust as well as skill go into that. I personally loathe hippocrites and don't think they make solid decisions. They are also intrinsically untrustworthy due to their unbelievable skills at rationalization.

I would say the better case for wanting him to resign is his hypocrisy, which I would also apply to a CEO come to think of it. Cheating is itself hypocrisy, but Spitzer's is augmented by the fact he actually, personally put people in jail for this shit. He can walk on.

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135092 ChrisWWW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:17:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135092 <b>"A CEO is not beholden to an electorate, nor in charge of enforcing the laws in a city."</b><br><br>I'm not taking exception to the idea that Spitzer is unfit to enforce the laws of the state, having broken them. I'm just intrigued by the idea that cheating on your wife should cost you your job whether or not it's illegal. “A CEO is not beholden to an electorate, nor in charge of enforcing the laws in a city.”

I'm not taking exception to the idea that Spitzer is unfit to enforce the laws of the state, having broken them. I'm just intrigued by the idea that cheating on your wife should cost you your job whether or not it's illegal.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135091 DLS Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:40:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135091 "What he did was wrong, and very destructive to his family."<br><br>It obviously was not "victimless." Not to mention hypocritical, which actually is less important here among better-raised people, though grounds itself for demands he resign.<br><br>The abusive "fucking steamroller" dirtbag just struck an IED. Good riddance. “What he did was wrong, and very destructive to his family.”

It obviously was not “victimless.” Not to mention hypocritical, which actually is less important here among better-raised people, though grounds itself for demands he resign.

The abusive “fucking steamroller” dirtbag just struck an IED. Good riddance.

]]> By: Slamfu http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135090 Slamfu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:37:01 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135090 A CEO is not beholden to an electorate, nor in charge of enforcing the laws in a city. A CEO is not beholden to an electorate, nor in charge of enforcing the laws in a city.

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135087 ChrisWWW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:34:15 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135087 <b>"Yes, I just think married men should not be using them. I also don't think married men should sleep with other women that are willing to have sex with them for free. See how that works?"</b><br><br>But you should lose your job for that? Should a CEO resign if he is found cheating on his wife? “Yes, I just think married men should not be using them. I also don't think married men should sleep with other women that are willing to have sex with them for free. See how that works?”

But you should lose your job for that? Should a CEO resign if he is found cheating on his wife?

]]> By: Slamfu http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135086 Slamfu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:31:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135086 I guess the above post just covers the moral angle. As far as the legal angle goes using hookers is against the law whether I think it should be or not. Considering he runs the law in NYC I think he should abide by its rules as well. I suppose its a misdimeanor so not worth an impeachment, but its a serious breach as far as trust goes. Hence, he should resign. Especially considering he's put people behind bars for just this kind of activity. If you actually prosecuted people for this crap, I think you should have some of your own medicine if you can't behave by the rules as well. I guess the above post just covers the moral angle. As far as the legal angle goes using hookers is against the law whether I think it should be or not. Considering he runs the law in NYC I think he should abide by its rules as well. I suppose its a misdimeanor so not worth an impeachment, but its a serious breach as far as trust goes. Hence, he should resign. Especially considering he's put people behind bars for just this kind of activity. If you actually prosecuted people for this crap, I think you should have some of your own medicine if you can't behave by the rules as well.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135082 DLS Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:29:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135082 "You know whose realy pathetic in these cases? The wives who stick by these cheating dirtbags."<br><br>Oh, that's so "repressed," [sic] so "regressive," [sic] ... “You know whose realy pathetic in these cases? The wives who stick by these cheating dirtbags.”

Oh, that's so “repressed,” [sic] so “regressive,” [sic] …

]]> By: Slamfu http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135079 Slamfu Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:26:24 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135079 Yes, I just think married men should not be using them. I also don't think married men should sleep with other women that are willing to have sex with them for free. See how that works? Yes, I just think married men should not be using them. I also don't think married men should sleep with other women that are willing to have sex with them for free. See how that works?

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135078 ChrisWWW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:07:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135078 <b>"I am pretty liberal when it comes to consenting adults as well, but I would never condone a married man cheating on his wife."</b><br><br>You've lost me here. You think prostitution should be legal, but you think he should lose his job for cheating on his wife? “I am pretty liberal when it comes to consenting adults as well, but I would never condone a married man cheating on his wife.”

You've lost me here. You think prostitution should be legal, but you think he should lose his job for cheating on his wife?

]]> By: ChrisWWW http://themoderatevoice.com/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/comment-page-1/#comment-135076 ChrisWWW Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:05:09 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/prostitution/18339/hypocrisy-and-moralism-the-fall-of-eliot-spitzer-and-the-rise-of-the-double-standard/#comment-135076 I discussed this issue in <a href="http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=95">a post at Why We Worry today</a>. We both agree that the prostitution laws make little sense and that Spitzer is a hypocrite nonetheless.<br><br>I do think you're wrong about a media double standard though. Gingrich is no longer in Congress. No one takes Larry Craig seriously. Bill Clinton had to run the gauntlet, but he survived more popular than ever.<br><br>One thing that might make a difference in this case is that Spitzer isn't exactly as popular as Bill Clinton. I discussed this issue in a post at Why We Worry today. We both agree that the prostitution laws make little sense and that Spitzer is a hypocrite nonetheless.

I do think you're wrong about a media double standard though. Gingrich is no longer in Congress. No one takes Larry Craig seriously. Bill Clinton had to run the gauntlet, but he survived more popular than ever.

One thing that might make a difference in this case is that Spitzer isn't exactly as popular as Bill Clinton.

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