The yeshiva, Mercaz HaRav, was founded by Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, a fundemental messianic Jew, who believes that Jewish settlements across Eretz Israel will deliver the Messiah to the Jews. This yeshiva is the foundation of Israel's National Religious Party (NRP) Everyone who goes thru this Yeshiva, including two of my cousins, is indoctrinated to move to the West Bank and either expand or build new settlements. Having met many of these students they are quite vociferous in their desire to transfer all Christians and Muslims out of Eretz Israel. In fact, some of the ugliest language I have heard in my life comes from the mouths of Mercaz HaRav students and staff.

The gunman was apparently a driver for the yeshiva and would be well aware of the student's attitudes towards arabs. I don't think it was just a coincidence that this yeshiva was attacked, even though in no way shape or form do I agree with it. This yeshiva is at the forefront of efforts to derail peace talks on the Israeli side. Obviously, they have plenty of company on the Palestinian side.

The hatred and cycle of violence will not cease by doing the same things as have been done the last 40 years. If I were President I would lock Abbas, Haniyeh and Olmert in a room and not let them out until they came to an agreement on peace.

Excuse me? Oath of loyalty? So you're basically saying that an Arab Israeli is a borderline traitor by definition and is in no way equal to a Jewish Israeli, and therefore must go above and beyond to prove they aren't a terrorist. That's lovely.

So you'd revoke the citizenship and deport any Israeli Arab who perhaps thought it was unbelievably insulting to be forced to swear “I am not nor have I ever been a terrorist”, I'm assuming even the ones who have been Israeli from birth, even the ones who are Christian Arabs, right? Perhaps you think we should do the same with Arabs in the US. The bigotry implicit in this demand is stunning.

As I said earlier I refuse to allow the right wing, neo-con meme to flourish with out challenge. We in the center didn't challenge the neo-cons the last time they spewed their garbage and over 4,000 Americans and many countless more Iraqis died.

Bloomberg:

“At least 120 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded in air attacks and a ground offensive started by Israel on Feb. 29 after an Israeli was killed by a rocket launched from the Gaza Strip”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116…

BBC:

“Last week, Israeli forces launched a raid into northern Gaza in which more than 120 Palestinians – including many civilians – were killed.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7282269.stm

Fox:

“Abbas had briefly suspended talks to protest an Israeli offensive in Gaza that killed more than 120 Palestinians”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335730,00.html

Al Jazeera:

Abbas severed contacts with Israel in protest against the latter's military offensive in the Gaza Strip that killed 120 Palestinians.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CBAFD8A7…

Elizabethanne,

You know what really jumped out to me while I was gathering the facts to shut you up was that every single article referenced above came from a news article dealing with the Israeli terrorist attack today, not one was headlined by the Palestinian death toll, I guess 120 Palestinians dieing doesn't even warrant a headline.

P.S.

The Gaza Strip – A Humanitarian Explosion:

“Eight Human Rights organizations warned that Gaza is facing the worst humanitarian crisis since Israel occupied the territory in 1967. Israel keeps the 1.5 million Gazans stateless and under perpetual siege, denying them needed fuel and supplies, even food. Statelessness and immobilization on this scale can only be described as a form of slavery.”

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/03/06/gaza.i…

But don't let the facts confuse you…

Even the Arabs say, “Keep 'Em Out!”

Bush has only caused the death of a million Iraqis, created a couple of million refugees and the internal displacement of another million Iraqis, I can't imagine why he shouldn't be despised by all civilized people. Hell he made Saddam look like a humanitarian.

But I have to believe, based on what seems to be some decent level of sophistication on your part, that you know that when you make a comment like that, and someone who either isn't familiar with you, or with Holly or with your opinion of Holly, what you wrote begs the question, from someone who is interested in the topic and not picking on the messenger or how she put out the message, of what you mean and intend.

Again – I would much rather be conversing back and forth with you on the content and import of the topic. If that's not an interest of yours, I understand – I don't comment on 90% of what I read, but I still enjoy reading.

I must tell you Jill, your initial comment to me was offensive, you were the one who leaped to the assumption that I would feel glee or some type of joy at the terrorist attack and you did this all without reason. Why should I have to explain my feelings about the terrorist attack, any decent person would be horrified and repulsed by it. However, my being horrified and repulsed by the terrorist attack should not stop me or anyone else from acknowledging that another horrendous act was committed in the ME this week (126 civilians killed by IDF in Gaza).

Also, Holly is a target by me because she has shown herself to be one of the more right wing, neo-con members of this site and as I've learned from the past 7 years if you allow the neo-cons to flourish without calling them on their egregious comments you will end up suffering in the long run.

If you want to explain what your feelings about this incident are, by way of your comment, “lurxst, tsk, tsk, you've interrupted Holly's neo-con, Likudish rant with facts and reality. She will now hate you forever.” please do – I am interested.

If you're not interested in explaining your feelings about the topic in this post (as opposed to picking on the person who posted it), then you're not. No one is here to force you one way or the other. Your comments speak for yourself as far as your interest in debate and discussion. So be it.

– Loviatar – my point is, as I'm sure you know, that your line is rhetoric. Why don't you say what you are thinking, rather than responding with the rhetoric? I would actually be interested in reading what you have to write on this topic. -

Great post can I paraphrase and use it;

Jill – my point was, as I'm sure you know was rhetorical. Why didn't you say what you were thinking, rather than responding with inflammatory rhetoric? As I said, I'm also interested in reading what you have to write on this topic.

Heh. Yah, I didn't want to be one of the — “Not a sparrow falls from the tree but that it is the fault of Bushitlerchimpy” — but it is a sad waster that he never paid much attention to that file until now.

Interesting points folks have raised here, though…proceeding from Holly's rather draconian solution.

It is also worth noting that Palestinian society is also becoming more radically Islamic. Last year I made the acquaintance of a Palestinian Christian family who had been dispossessed…not by the “evil, vicious, monstrous” Jews…but by the terror of Islamic gangs. I gather towns like Bethlehem — that once had a large Christian population — are now almost entirely Muslim.

– Loviatar – are you saying you support the killing of seminary students? -

Nice rhetorical spin, its dishonesty is so great it almost reaches the level of something Holly would write, you're only missing the accusation of antisemitism.

So because I bring attention to lurxst pointing out that “the US is more interested in fostering violence and instability in the region and crippling any attempts at real peace” And his additional point of “126 civilians were killed by IDF in Gaza in the last week.” I am advocating “killing of seminary students”.

See this is the problem with discussing the Middle East with some Jewish Americans, point out that the Palestinians are suffering under Israeli rule and all of a sudden you hate Israel, point out that Israel's indiscriminate attacks into Gaza and the West Bank will feed the cycle of violence and your “advocating “killing of seminary students”.

Jill I expect better of you, I know what I'll get from Holly, but you at least should strive to be more honest. Please don't follow her reactionary, neo-con, Likudish model.

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/

Even the following, reasonable idea isn't achieveable (yet):

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/September-Oc…

And everyone “knows” that obviously all this, too, is Bush's fault.

Yes, it would be nice to say I can see see a Tony Rezko connection…but this is sorta sad for that.

I would say, however, that George Bush is at fault in a way.

It is sorta pathetic that he has only discovered the Palestinean problem in the last year of his Presidency. I mean, it took him 2 terms…2 TERMS!…before he visited Israel.

I say this as a conservative, who has defended Bush in the past.

Yes, it may have all been useless. But Bush could have tried, at least.

Anyway, this is very bad news. As far as I've read, for the most part the Israeli Arabs have stood by their Jewish brethren and condemned terrorism (despite some legitimate gripes that they are second class citizens) and I hope this isn't the beginning of an unraveling of that relationship.

Oh well – now I'm just dreaming I guess.