Pro-America, Anti-Direction
Mar 6th, 2008 | 14 responses
Holly forwarded this post to several us via email, from Carol Platt Liebau writing at Townhall.com. Liebau concludes:
… as the campaign drags on, there will be more opportunities for voters to decide that [Sen. Obama] and his wife share a profoundly negative perspective on America that ill-becomes a presidential couple, and which differs radically from the views of the average citizen.
Really?
On the question of whether or not the country is headed in the right direction, the latest RCP Average suggests a super majority (67.7%) think we’re headed in the wrong direction.
Now, I’m not one of those who is entirely negative on the country. Far from it. I’m further convinced there’s a large professional class of “woe-are-we” pundits who need to take a collective dose of Valium. However, it’s possible to be both pro-America and anti-direction. And while the jury’s still out on the Obamas, I don’t think they can legitimately be criticized for articulating the sentiments of 67.7% of the citizens of this country.
Ms. Liebau might want to consider checking reality every now and then before opining from inside her detached bubble.
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14 Responses to “Pro-America, Anti-Direction”
Such finer distinctions do not foam the rabid- thus why Townhall writes such silliness and Holly passes it on.
This is right-wing flapdoodle designed as a Hillary Clinton talking point.
Public opinion polls show that a substantial majority of Americans have profoundly negative perspectives on America, but that does not mean that they — nor Michelle Obama or Shaun Mullen — detest America.
I am a veteran and proud America who bleeds red, white and blue, but under the Bush-Cheney calculus I'm unpatriotic because I don't buy into their perverted ways.
Pew has done a couple of polls showing that Americans for the first time also believe that their children will not be better off than they are. Talk about being negative on America!
It's how you frame the issue that matters, and expect plenty of disingenuously negative framing.
I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you that Holly spends her time perusing the hilarity that is generated on Clown Hall.
And I eagerly await her breathless treatise on something the AEI released.
If you're looking to find rationalizations for your own prejudices against Obama, Townhall is the place to go!
It is possible for those on both sides of the political spectrum to believe that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction. There are those who believe that unlimited illegal immigration and the lack of border enforcement are the wrong direction. Yet, there are those on the left who believe that limiting who can immigration and “forcing” people to become illegal immigration also means that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction.
I think that a critical eye towards America's direction is one of America's most long standing traditions. I can't be the only one who read John Winthrop in high school.
“For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken… we shall be made a story and a by-word throughout the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God… We shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us til we be consumed out of the good land whither we are a-going.”
I'm not a Christian, but I still am inspired by those words to try to hold the country to certain standards. Some say “love it or leave it.” I say that that's a real example of “Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations.”
Don't blame Holly. She was just the messenger. She regularly shares items of interest with the other TMV writers and editors, from all across the political spectrum. I appreciated her forwarding this particular item, as it was something I thought deserved discussion.
Actually, Town Hall is quite a menagerie. You can find true righties there, including those who use support for torture of terrorism suspects as a kind of conservative litmus test. (!)
Shaun: Pew has done a couple of polls showing that Americans for the first time also believe that their children will not be better off than they are. Talk about being negative on America!
Good point, although I don't think realism shd be chided- 30 years of attacking the middle class, siphoning off its wealth, and then labeling any objections as clas warfare, takes its toll.
SD: 'It is possible for those on both sides of the political spectrum to believe that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction. There are those who believe that unlimited illegal immigration and the lack of border enforcement are the wrong direction. Yet, there are those on the left who believe that limiting who can immigration and “forcing” people to become illegal immigration also means that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction.
Yes, same on abortion.
Pete: 'Don't blame Holly. She was just the messenger.'
But a messenger who knows if she's carrying toxins or not. She ain't the USPS!
Re: “expect plenty of disingenuously negative framing.”
Yes, but it's coming from every side. While purportedly supporting Obama for the new kind of politics he represents , his supporters shamelessly resort to negativity .and personal attacks.
There is no negative hint, innuendo or clam about Hillary that they don't swallow in a gulp and go on to propogate as 'fact'. Labeling a fellow commenter as a 'Hill Shill” if anyone dares to see a particular point in a different light is commonplace., even though one would think that goes against commenting policy.
Now Holly is called to task for forwarding the 'wrong' kind of e-mail I disagree with Holly on politics more than half the time, but I recognize that it is possible to disagree with another's conclusions without needing to denigrate the person in disagreement.
I always hoped that Obama's message would take, but I doubted that that would happen.
Now, I am so deeply discouraged that for the first time in my life, I'm considereing not voting at all. The slogans change, the players change, but the nature of the beast (the American public) seems incapable of changing.
What is the point of supporting what Obama puportedly represents, if you don't practice what he preaches?
What is the point of whining about Washington politics if we practice the exact same loyatly-inspired hatreds that keeps Washington from functioning?
It 's quite possible the Dems will destroy their chances in November, but it's no use just blaming the candidates or their staffers for it. It will very much be a grass-roots effort, as evidenced by many comments here at TMV.
Obama did, indeed, offer us a chance to rise above our baser insticts. And we're spitting on what he offered. That's the hinghes form of anit-Americanism I can think of.
Doma: Holly is a good example of a 'Hill Shill”. Her posts against Obama have lacked all substance- esp, the ridiculous one on her Hilary signs gone missing.
The point is that Holly- and Jil and Damozel, have not run anything about Hillary that is positive, only rumors and snits against Obama. Shaun has done the same against Hillary, but with a bit more substance.
To shill is to disingenuously extol or peddle something, and that's what the Hill Shillers her have done. I've simply called them on it. You should too, as should anyone wanting a better and realer discourse. Sans that, they are open to the mockery they invite.
'I recognize that it is possible to disagree with another's conclusions without needing to denigrate the person in disagreement.'
Tell that Holly when she writes her next anti-Obama post.
'Obama did, indeed, offer us a chance to rise above our baser insticts. And we're spitting on what he offered. That's the hinghes form of anit-Americanism I can think of.'
Again, nice rhetoric, but disingenuous if not aimed at the folk who are doing the very things you criticize.
Cosmoetica,
Sadly, you just reinforced the point of my comment.
And reinforced mine with yours, that to lump all comments that make a point against something as the same is ludicrous.
For Holly to bizarrely declaim against Obama folk w no rationale, and then to lump criticism of her lack of rationale as being the same is silly.
It's akin to calling the the state executioner on par w Ted Bundy because he did the serial killer in. It's just not the same thing, and this lack of intellectual ability is why the electorate makes such bad choices.
To repeat: 'To shill is to disingenuously extol or peddle something, and that's what the Hill Shillers her have done. I've simply called them on it. You should too, as should anyone wanting a better and realer discourse. Sans that, they are open to the mockery they invite.'
And folk who think all such things are relative are only furthering the problem. That would be….you, Doma.
Pete, thanks for the gauntlet glove. lol. Seriously, just my .02 worth about what you wrote– and I did receive holly's post you mention above…. I find myself wanting to know far more about how and who is being asked whether they are 'negative' on America, so to speak… I want more 'evidence'
I would also like us here and elsewhere at TMV to stick to discussing the topic and not dis each other. You know me, I have a weird sense of humor… and thus, I know both dis and discuss seem to share a root….but there the similarity ends… lol. The issues of Israel, Hamas, Gaza, Chavez, Columbia, Obama, Hillary, Cheney, Bush, broken treaties, graves opening and spilling their contents and more, are only going to heat up more and more in the coming days, I believe. Heated discussion: ok. Attacking others as demented or pre-protoplasmic , no. Let's stay with TMV's comments rules. Thanks.
dr.e