Comments on: Clinton Campaign Signals Possible Delegate War Over Florida And Michigan

By: Jakey

Jakey — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:13:42 +0000

Hi StockBoy,

Yes I am a Hillary supporter but I am first a Democrat .
At the end of the day, we should ALL support whoever the nominee of the party is, just like the GOP is doing around McCain who is ultimately their nominee.
At the end of the day it's about the party not the personality. That is what we should all remember.

By: Jakey

Jakey — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:13:42 +0000

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:56:26 +0000

Hey, Jakey. The only "statistic" I threw out was that up to 50% of the voters have said they would not vote for Hillary, which is in line with what I've seen out there (some polls have high 40s while I've seen one or two articles mention a little over 50%). But regardless of the exact number who would never vote for her, the point I was making was that a huge percentage of voters won't vote for her, more people say they would not vote for her then the other candidates.

As far as my other comments- they are strictly my musings.

Yes, I am an Obama supporter and I also know that whoever the Dem nominee is the Reps. will go after him/her with everything they have. And if Obama gets the nomination that means that the Republicans will go after his so-called lack of experience and sling every bit of mud at him that they can- including his "boneheaded" (as Obama put it) land deal. Hillary and Bill have already thrown stuff at him and he's not only survived but has been trouncing Hillary of late. I'm sure the Reps. will be more of the same, and more intense.

Yes, I agree with you that a lot of Dems may have their heads in the clouds and even though I'm happy to see them support my man Obama, I'm not sure they're all supporting him for the right reasons. Though why does anyone support Bush at all? It's a rhetorical question and somewhat flip so I'm not expecting an answer.

As far as your paranoia... you're more than welcome to it. You must be a Hillary supporter.

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:56:26 +0000

By: Jakey

Jakey — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:26:54 +0000

StockBoy with all respect, where did you get all your so called statistics.?
I recognise you maybe an Obama supporter but let's stick to facts rather than supposition.
Why are we Democrats always falling for this Right Wing SPIN when it comes to ELECTABILITY regarding our two Democratic Nominees?
"Hillary has too many negatives, BLAH BLAH BLAH...JAZZ JAZZ etc.
The Repub DOMINATED MEDIA TELLS YOU THIS.. Duh..So it must true eh?
They say if Hillary is nominated, that would UNITE the GOP to fight against you. Duh..So you should chicken out and wave the white flag and let them DICTATE TO YOU who you should pick to face them right? What kind of logic is that?
A lot of very intelligent Dems unfortunately right now seem to be have their "heads in the clouds" most of the time, instead of examining issues with heads firmly on their shoulders.
There's is NOTHING NEW they can throw against Hillary and THEY KNOW IT.
I have nothing against Barrack. I think he is very intelligent and full of potential. However I think his time is not yet ripe to face the GOP in a GENERAL ELECTION. You may not want to hear this but he will provide FERTILE GROUND for the REPUB spin machine. They will chew him to pieces if he is the Nominee.
THEY OWN THE BULK OF THIS MEDIA that is giving him this GLARINGLY obvious "We love You" press right now. It is with GOOD REASON they are doing this FOR NOW...yes FOR NOW.
Think about it a little.

By: Jakey

Jakey — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:26:54 +0000

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:54:43 +0000

I've thought all along that Hillary will approach the primaries as a battle and will do whatever it takes to win each one, even if it means polarizing the constituencies. In the end she will expect everyone to fall in line and make nice.

I think the following factors are probably most important; up to 50% of the electorate will not vote for Hillary in the general election; if funny shenanigans happen which give Hillary the nomination, then many of Obama supporters will feel disenfranchised and either stay home (probably most of the first time voters who supported him will stay home) or vote for someone else; IF for the general election McCain retracts his “endless war in Iraq” position then he will get a lot of votes. The posting was right that McCain is underestimated- he has a lot of qualities that Americans value. Most people don't expect politicians to agree with them 100% of the time, and McCain does appeal to moderates. It may take a village to raise a child, but it only takes one polarizing politician to lose the presidency for her (or his) party. McCain is no where near as polarizing as Hillary.

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:54:43 +0000

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:40:47 +0000

casualobserver- very good point about Hillary planting the seed in the superdelegates' minds that those “apparent wins” are being ignored.

I wonder if a reasonable approach would be for the majority of the superdelegates from FL and MI to pledge their support to Hill. (Not all of them and I'm not even sure what the split would be.) But it would give her more delegates towards the total of 2,025. If it's close otherwise, that could put her over the top.

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:40:47 +0000

casualobserver- very good point about Hillary planting the seed in the superdelegates' minds that those “apparent wins” are being ignored.

By: Brainster

Brainster — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:37:38 +0000

“If the Clinton campaign wins this way, it would be ignoring some key facts about Obama’s campaign….”

And if they lose graciously, what do they get out of it? There is no silver medal, no “Miss Congeniality” award.

By: Brainster

Brainster — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:37:38 +0000

“If the Clinton campaign wins this way, it would be ignoring some key facts about Obama’s campaign….”

And if they lose graciously, what do they get out of it? There is no silver medal, no “Miss Congeniality” award.

By: StockBoySF

StockBoySF — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:35:05 +0000

DLS: I agree with your posts about the Dems in FL and MI needing to hold another contest. It would need to be a caucus, since the Dems pay for it (MI and FL would refuse to pay for a primary). It appears that Obama does better in caucuses so Hillary wouldn't go for that. And why would she if she believes she can get the delegates seated as is?

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:15:19 +0000

As there's no separate thread yet -- the Bush guys want to shoot down the satellite that was in a decaying orbit. (This prevents a collision on Earth somewhere, ruins the chances of Chinese or Russian acquisition of the satellite's components, and lets us show off to China our own satellite-killing capability.)

1. What if we shoot and miss? Dem candidate fun-fest!

2. What if we don't destroy the satellite and the pieces fall to earth anyway? Dem candidate fun-fest!

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:06:00 +0000

And yes, Casual Observer, in at least one instance working in Obama's campaign office here in Iowa, wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt. [grin]

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:05:05 +0000

“planting the seed in the superdelegates mind”

Planting the seed in the mind of the gullible, emotional, or “ethically challenged” voters as well: “The people of Florida and Michigan [who didn't even really truly vote in a true election, but in a sham election held "anyway" despite the rules, and in one case, others left the ballot and psychologically, the election, but Clinton refused] deserve to be heard…”

By: casualobserver

casualobserver — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:14:57 +0000

Obamacons as defined as his campaign spokespersons, yes. Teenagers with headbands, no.

By: JWeidner

JWeidner — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:30:06 +0000

“And one thing that has not yet been tested is Obama and Obamacons reactions in the face of adversity. I think it will be instructive.”

Well, I think Obama is smart enough to play his hand well. But why would you, or anyone, care what his supporters do? Why would the Obamacons reaction be at all instructive?

By: casualobserver

casualobserver — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:15:52 +0000

As a dispassionate observer, I think the noise-making about this could be more likely strategic-posturing than cataclismic -promising. Is it really about actually seating those delegations or is it more about planting the seed in the superdelegates mind that Clinton “apparent wins” of those states voters (and regular delegates) are being ignored?

And one thing that has not yet been tested is Obama and Obamacons reactions in the face of adversity. I think it will be instructive.

By: U.s. Presidential Primary » Clinton Campaign Signals Possible Delegate War Over Florida And Michigan

Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:36:28 +0000

[...] The Moderate Voice – Domestic and international news analysis, irreverent comments, original reporti… wrote an interesting post today on Clinton Campaign Signals Possible Delegate War Over Florida And MichiganHere’s a quick excerpt Faced by a string of recent primary defeats, and scrambling to shore-up its “firewall” against Democratic Senator Barack Obama, the campaign of Senator Hillary Clinton is now making rumblings about triggering a divisive convention delegate war that could polarize the Democratic Party — and possibly leave the probable GOP Presidential nominee Senator John McCain smiling. During the Vietnam War there was the now-clichéd saying about blowing up a village in order to save it. Recent comments fro [...]