Comments on: Burma: The Heartbeat Is Still Alive Underground

By: archangel

archangel — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:29:24 +0000

JMJ, I just saw that Jilly. Just opened the pix of his body. I'll put up the pix my correspondent from Myanmar News sent… tomorrow. I think too, it would be good to put up some of the old pix of the Karen people if I can find some, to refamiliarize readers with this Burmese tribal group they probably learned about in gradeschool but may have forgotten. Hold the faith JD

dr.e

By: JillyDybka

JillyDybka — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:09:06 +0000

ps. Pado Mahn Shar was killed today.

By: JillyDybka

JillyDybka — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:08:05 +0000

Power Crazy Senior General Than Shwe, a poetry e-chapbook.

By: archangel

archangel — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:27:48 +0000

well thought PaulSilver…. a true strong carom shot… aiming 'over here' in order to influence to the better 'over there.'

And, pacatrue your point about time and knowing more fully… is well taken. As I was reading your insight, I was thinking about how the “wall” put up by the Russians actually fell, not because several leaders (who lay claim to bringing down the wall, or others ascribing such to them) … it was, in such large part caused by the people, who every day and in each small way possible slowed down and more and more withdrew from financing the powers who built the wall to begin with… until one day. Just regular people. Those big changes brought new and different challenges, but so different than not being free to meet, invent, speak, move at will.

dr.e

By: PaulSilver

PaulSilver — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:24:12 +0000

We all have different ways of dealing with the suffering in the world. For me, I channel my frustration into promoting what I feel is the wisest possible leadership of our Country, who, in turn, can make the most persuasive case to those who persecute others around the globe. George Bush may have had the good intentions to promote liberty around the world but he lacks the insight, soul and skills to put the bad actors on the more humane path.

As I deconstruct and distill the wobbly path or our country and the rest of the world, I observe that polarization by extreme interests is what slows the course of progress. Moderation, conciliation, and collaboration is the casualty. And a remedy is the gradual implementation of new rules that promote more leaders who are pragmatic and open minded.

So part of my response to the suffering in Burma is to continue my efforts to promote Campaign and Election reforms in the USA that are likely to favor moderates and independents.

By: pacatrue

pacatrue — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:59:04 +0000

It is too early to know what will happen in China still unfortunately; the engagement process of the last 30 years there has had limited results (and if anyone reads this, I am sure someone will post a list of the limits in action), but there have been results indeed. The PRC of today is not the PRC of the Cultural Revolution. Perhaps in time we will know more fully if the engagement approach can be effective with oligarchical regimes, such as China and Burma.

By: archangel

archangel — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:09:40 +0000

Dear Slamfu; thank you for your thoughts. I'd agree with you immediately that none of us as individuals may ever turn the tide in Burma or Tibet or NOLA or Juarez or wherever ‘obey me or die’ warlords and thugs prevail. Not by any means as individuals. However, though I don’t recommend it to all, my personal way of seeing such egregious matters as in Burma, is that no one knows what the ‘tipping point’ in such situations will ever be. We cannot know. We can only contribute our tiny dit to all the other tiny dits: all our actions, thoughts, visions, speech, art, money, encouragement, carrying the message, giving aid, visiting, and offering comfort in whatever ways we can.

I’d only add, (my apologies for not explaining more clearly) a memorial candle is not a wax candle, it is a person who acts as memory for an event, or an era. And to us old believers, prayer is not a passive endeavor on one’s knees at bedside, it is fierce and right action.

I appreciate your comments, because it reminds me too Slamfu, now that so many of the old ‘memorial candles’ from WWII are dying away, that it is time to perhaps write about it for TMV, for surely the time for the lighting of the new ones, literally passing the fire, is near at hand.

Dear JSpencer
“Evil is alive and unwell over there,”

Alive and unwell. The pith of it.
You said it better and shorter than I ever could. There are old legends about Evil being Goodness that has gone sick from being exiled. Another story, a deep one, for another time. Thank you always JS
dr.e

By: JSpencer

JSpencer — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:33:15 +0000

We in the US have largely inherited our freedoms and our way of life. Credit for that goes to those who went before us. We are still coasting on their momentum. When I say “their”, I'm talking about all the freedom fighters, from the founding fathers all the way to the WWII veterans. Burma on the other hand is facing a reality with the aid of no cushion from what has gone before. Evil is alive and unwell over there, and the exceptional and very authentic courage on the part of the monks is something most folks in the US can only imagine. Thanks Dr. Estes for continuing to keep this alive in TMV.

By: Slamfu

Slamfu — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:19:19 +0000

I feel a mix of pity and frustration when people take up a cause like this in this manner. Candles and prayer will not save Burma anymore than it has saved Tibet from the Chinese. You speak of moral authority as somehow higher when the brutal reality is that all authority come from the use of or threat of violence. They matched it against military authority with predictable results. Hopefully someday the people of Burma will discover the will to rise up and crush their tyrant.

I don't think I could do it. We had it relatively easy here in the US, the hands holding our yoke was based across an ocean. And even then it was won only by the narrowest of margins. But candles and prayer do not help them, it helps us. We do have consciences and it hurts to know that people have to endure this and we more or less have to sit by and watch, grateful that we live in a better place.

If anyone really wants to help them, go over there and start a rebellion. Fight with them. Anything else is wishing on the breeze. We can't do it for them, as seen in Iraq democracy, or even just freedom from a tyrant, needs to come from within if it is going to work.