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McCain at CPAC

Posted by PAUL SILVER in At TMV.
Feb 7th, 2008 | Comments

Senator McCain just made his pitch to the Conservative Political Action Conference. It was Pro Life, Pro Gun, Pro War, Pro Tax cuts. To a moderate Independent like me it was frightening. I understand that this is the right wing of his base but his rhetoric was extreme and only Black vs White. Why does he not bother to try to demonstrate that he is willing and able to lead them to a more pragmatic way of thinking?

He took a stand to use force to defeat any who threaten the US and freedom and ridiculed the soft skills of diplomacy promoted by the Dems. But how about addressing the reasons most of these people want to threaten the US: the poverty, the insulation from modern society, the suppression of freedom by their leaders, the failure and fear of moderates to speak out, the corrupting influence of oil wealth… Why not talk about energy independence as a path to reducing the consequences of global competition for energy and as an opportunity to grow our economy?

He took a stand to be pro-gun. But how about incremental efforts to keep guns out of the hands of predators and those who are violent and unhinged?

He took a stand to reduce taxes and cut government programs. But what happens to the poor and disadvantaged among us who loose health care, food assistance and pensions? What happens to our future if the cost of college goes up? He wants to use market forces to reduce health care costs. But the problem is that free market insurance doesn’t prevent
providers from stonewalling claims and preventing medical care. Debates should force him to declare who’s services he will cut.

He took a stand to reduce Corporate taxes. But when we include all taxes paid by American citizens and businesses it is less than that paid in most other developed countries. Is it merely lower taxes that we want or is it to be convinced that our tax dollars are being spent as efficiently as possible to raise the tide for ALL ships in our harbor? Debates should force him to declare what he would cut to balance the budget and retire the debt.

Ironically he pledged to nominate strict constructionist Supreme Court Judges when it is such judges who have decided that freedom of speech and freedom of money are the same thing as far as elections are concerned. A recipe for the wholesale emasculation of representative government.

This was a scary speech and a scary audience response: Un-nuanced and immoderate. Everything that is wrong with the direction of our country.

Cartoon by Daryl Cagle, MSNBC.com

Ads by Project Wonderful! Your ad here, right now: $0

BBQ

He was talking to CPAC, he needs to state his conservative cred because he has to have their support. I have watched him make the moderate speeches (for instance the speech at the solar panel plant with Arnold and Rudy) and he does speak to moderates.

He says he ok with Bush tax cuts as long as they are tied to spending. That sound reasonable to me. As for pro life, considering that pro-choice and pro-life opinion hasn't moved that much in 30 years, I don' think it's a really moderate to be either pro choice or pro life. The majority of people want stricter limits but roe v wade not overturned. I haven' t heard any candidate state that from either party.

I am surprised you even brought up pro gun. Is that much of an issue anymore? That has barely been talked about in the last decade. Hell Kerry went Duck hunting to prove he was pro guns.

No offense Paul but is there really any truth to being a moderate independent? I used to call myself that but I really think we all lean to one side or another. We may not love either party but I feel most people end up voting for one party more often.

Or is moderate to you just tone? I guess that's why you like Obama even though he is a staunch liberal. To me it's more policy than tone or style. Although most of what you write seems to be liberal so I guess for you it is both but it's probably more liberalism you prefer than conservatism.

Jillmz

Paul, I totally get what you are saying. Thanks for posting this entry.

casualobserver

The items you picked have been McCain positions for mucho annos.......including a long voting record thereon. What......is he now supposed to do an about face on these?

Go over to Red State and find out just how much conservatives are reacting to the same speech you seem to have found to be too "right".

Given that McCain actually has a substantial voting record, I might suggest he can claim to be proven more on-balance center than some other candidates that are merely suggesting that they are.

PaulSilver

BBQ,
For me moderate independent partly means that I am willing and able to see the merits of opposing points of view. I then sort for pragmatism, realism, efficiency, and fairness
Currently I tend to see the Democrats as more pragmatic, realistic, efficient and
fair regarding Health Care, Immigration, Energy, Economic justice, International Diplomacy, Food and Drugs, Election Reform, Gun control, Penal reform and others.
I used to have hope that the GOP would use their power to eliminate inefficiency, simplify taxes, reduce pork, reduce intrusion into personal choices (such as bans on smoking, trans fats) , minimize unilateral internationalism, more federalism to liberate State's sovereignty

So for me, moderation is tone AND policy.

joegandelman

BBQ: Our comments are now actually offline so we don't have our comment policy. But when you disagree with a post why don't you simply outline why you disagree with it and make your case. Turning it into a comment questioning whether someone is an independent moderate is truly old and trite on TMV. If we do a post and someone is to the right, they say you CAN"T REALLY be a moderate because you're too far to the lef t(i.e. you don't totally see things the way the person commenting does). OR if we do a post and somone one is to the left, well then the writer MUST be taking money from the RNC. FYI if you read lots of articles you will find that Obama has appealed to some Republicans as well. So if Paul feels he like some things about Obama that doesn't make him a liberal. We are going to get our comments policy visible on this site asap. Comments need to be on the issues at hand -- not turned into questioning whether someone is a moderate, a liberal, a conservative or whatever. We LOVE to have people comment on our posts and you left some good comments. You can disagree and say you think the perspective is full of crap -- but then outline why. FYI I've been called a liberal and was on a talk show the same week where a local Air America host and his cretin cohost talked over me ("a moderate cup of coffee...a moderate case of cancer" ) as they suggested I really was a conservative pretending to be a moderate.

And with that, let's get back to Paul's comment and whether people agree with his perspective -- not whehter he is a liberal or not (look at Obama's polls and he did well with independents and moderates so unless all of these people are secretly liberals, there are indeed independents and moderates who like Obama)

DLS

There's nothing wrong with questioning someone's "moderation" (which is in highly short supply on this site) when describing McCain's moderate stances as "extreme " [sic] and even "frightening" (not to a real moderate, they're not).

cosmoetica

No real moderate is still backing the war, nor for the Bush tax breaks.

That said, if the Dems are smart, they'd use that speech in all the campaign ads.

Money says they won't.

BBQ

Joe,
I was asking because all his concerns don't seem to be moderate concerns but liberal concerns. That's why I aksed. Some people feel moderate is style and tone not policy. That's what I was asserting, Paul's criticism seems to be that it wasn't liberal policy response.

Independents are usually people that lean one way or another. I have been called a liberal and a conservative, I do get that. But like I said all of Paul's concerns seem to be that they aren't liberal policies. I am not calling all Obama's supporters liberals, I do get why moderates would vote for him. His message is a stark contrast from Bush/Clinton politics. I was just responding because so far I haven't seen a moderate position, view or policy from Paul. But I guess the writers don't have to qualify why they think they are moderates. Seems that if you start off by saying as "to moderate independent like me" and try to come off as a voice of moderate independents you might actually have to defend that qualification. I guess that isn't allowed so I wouldn't ask again and just personally question people's self labeled and non defended qualifications.

As I said earlier he has given those moderate speeches but didn't at CPAC because they don't want to hear a moderate speech. They want to hear on things they agree with.

Paul,
I still see the Democrats as being too idealistic and too naive on most of these issues; Health Care, Immigration, Energy, Economic justice, International Diplomacy. I think that on most of them they will go too far and either not pass (Health Care, Immigration, etc) or will be bad policy (International Diplomacy). Not that the GOP hasn't been very destructive so I am ok with four years of a new direction but feel as a moderate that McCain is the most realistic and pragmatic and has a record to back up being a moderate.

Just curious but what Dems even talk about these things anymore; Food and Drugs, Election Reform, Gun control, Penal reform.

Don Quijote

ROTFLMAO!!!

Here is the 109th Senate Rank Ordering by Jeff Lewis and Keith Poole

There were 645 roll calls cast in the 109th Senate of which 544 roll calls had at least 0.5% or better in the minority and were used in the scaling. The rank ordering is based upon these 544 roll calls. Note that tied ranks are allowed.

The overall correct classification is 92.0% with an aggregate proportional reduction in error of (APRE) .767. In the ordering below, the number just to the right of the Senator's name is the classification error and the number to the right of that is the total number of roll calls cast by the Senator. For example, placing Senator Kennedy at the tied rank of 5.5 only resulted in 15 classification errors out of a total of 530 votes cast. The proportion correct is 515/530 = .972 (which is shown just to the left of the rank).

The two parties are perfectly separated in the liberal-conservative ordering.
109 49309 25 WISCONS D FEINGOLD 55 536 0.897 1.000
109 14230 31 IOWA D HARKIN 36 540 0.933 2.500
109 14307 6 VERMONT D LEAHY 35 542 0.935 2.500
109 15011 71 CALIFOR D BOXER 33 521 0.937 4.000
109 10808 3 MASSACH D KENNEDY ED 15 530 0.972 5.500
109 40104 12 NEW JER D CORZINE 11 199 0.945 5.500
109 14914 12 NEW JER D LAUTENBERG 25 537 0.953 7.000
109 13039 52 MARYLAN D SARBANES 20 542 0.963 8.000
109 29142 5 RHODE I D REED 28 543 0.948 9.000
109 94240 6 VERMONT I JEFFORDS 49 517 0.905 10.000
109 14400 82 HAWAII D AKAKA 31 535 0.942 11.000
109 4812 82 HAWAII D INOUYE 40 488 0.918 12.500
109 14709 23 MICHIGA D LEVIN CARL 29 542 0.946 12.500
109 15021 21 ILLINOI D DURBIN 21 538 0.961 14.000
109 40101 33 MINNESO D DAYTON 36 516 0.930 15.000
109 49308 73 WASHING D MURRAY 40 539 0.926 16.000
109 14213 1 CONNECT D DODD 41 520 0.921 17.500
109 39310 73 WASHING D CANTWELL 41 537 0.924 17.500
109 14871 72 OREGON D WYDEN 51 542 0.906 19.000
109 29373 12 NEW JER D MENENDEZ 13 223 0.942 20.000
109 40502 21 ILLINOI D OBAMA 30 538 0.944 21.000
109 14440 52 MARYLAN D MIKULSKI 17 519 0.967 22.000
109 49300 71 CALIFOR D FEINSTEIN 39 535 0.927 23.000
109 14858 13 NEW YOR D SCHUMER 37 539 0.931 24.000
109 40105 13 NEW YOR D CLINTON 32 532 0.940 25.000
109 14920 3 MASSACH D KERRY JOHN 31 526 0.941 26.000
109 29732 23 MICHIGA D STABENOW 34 539 0.937 27.000
109 49901 22 INDIANA D BAYH 48 537 0.911 28.000
109 14101 11 DELAWAR D BIDEN 42 502 0.916 29.000
109 14912 66 NEW MEX D BINGAMAN 57 529 0.892 30.500
109 15704 1 CONNECT D LIEBERMAN 52 509 0.898 30.500
109 15703 25 WISCONS D KOHL 39 541 0.928 32.000
109 14922 56 WEST VI D ROCKEFELLER 28 434 0.935 33.000
109 15054 65 NEVADA D REID 33 543 0.939 34.000
109 40500 62 COLORAD D SALAZAR 44 532 0.917 35.000
109 14812 36 NORTH D D DORGAN 57 532 0.893 36.000
109 15502 36 NORTH D D CONRAD 79 525 0.850 37.000
109 1366 56 WEST VI D BYRD ROBER 87 530 0.836 38.000
109 15425 37 SOUTH D D JOHNSON 45 538 0.916 39.000
109 14651 43 FLORIDA D NELSON 74 541 0.863 40.000
109 49702 45 LOUISIA D LANDRIEU 66 530 0.875 41.000
109 29305 42 ARKANSA D LINCOLN 36 540 0.933 42.000
109 40301 42 ARKANSA D PRYOR 43 543 0.921 43.000
109 14203 64 MONTANA D BAUCUS 62 530 0.883 44.000
109 15015 11 DELAWAR D CARPER 56 542 0.897 45.000
109 40103 35 NEBRASK D NELSON BEN 106 542 0.804 46.000
109 49905 5 RHODE I R CHAFEE 76 531 0.857 47.000
109 14661 2 MAINE R SNOWE 53 536 0.901 48.000
109 49703 2 MAINE R COLLINS 46 544 0.915 49.000
109 14910 14 PENNSYL R SPECTER 70 531 0.868 50.000
109 15020 24 OHIO R DEWINE 65 543 0.880 51.000
109 40302 33 MINNESO R COLEMAN 33 520 0.937 52.000
109 49705 72 OREGON R SMITH GORD 48 539 0.911 53.000
109 29369 34 MISSOUR R TALENT 61 544 0.888 54.000
109 14506 22 INDIANA R LUGAR 48 538 0.911 55.000
109 14712 40 VIRGINI R WARNER 46 537 0.914 56.000
109 40300 81 ALASKA R MURKOWSKI 27 531 0.949 57.000
109 40501 43 FLORIDA R MARTINEZ 48 534 0.910 58.000
109 49704 35 NEBRASK R HAGEL 52 537 0.903 59.000
109 49903 24 OHIO R VOINOVICH 69 539 0.872 60.000
109 14103 66 NEW MEX R DOMENICI 24 519 0.954 61.000
109 12109 81 ALASKA R STEVENS 33 536 0.938 62.000
109 49307 67 UTAH R BENNETT 26 537 0.952 63.000
109 14009 46 MISSISS R COCHRAN 23 537 0.957 64.000
109 40304 54 TENNESS R ALEXANDER 43 536 0.920 65.000
109 49502 54 TENNESS R FRIST 33 542 0.939 66.000
109 49306 49 TEXAS R HUTCHISON 47 542 0.913 67.000
109 15501 34 MISSOUR R BOND 38 543 0.930 68.000
109 15701 64 MONTANA R BURNS 33 531 0.938 69.000
109 14852 32 KANSAS R ROBERTS 30 536 0.944 70.000
109 14503 67 UTAH R HATCH 23 530 0.957 71.000
109 29141 14 PENNSYL R SANTORUM 46 524 0.912 72.000
109 14226 31 IOWA R GRASSLEY 32 544 0.941 73.000
109 29754 37 SOUTH D R THUNE 42 530 0.921 74.000
109 40303 47 NORTH C R DOLE 36 538 0.933 75.000
109 14031 46 MISSISS R LOTT 32 501 0.936 76.000
109 29345 63 IDAHO R CRAPO 29 542 0.946 77.000
109 29918 45 LOUISIA R VITTER 46 530 0.913 78.500
109 94659 41 ALABAMA R SHELBY 43 535 0.920 78.500
109 14809 63 IDAHO R CRAIG 39 539 0.928 80.000
109 14921 51 KENTUCK R MCCONNELL 26 543 0.952 81.000
109 29523 32 KANSAS R BROWNBACK 50 535 0.907 82.000
109 29148 40 VIRGINI R ALLEN 37 542 0.932 83.000
109 29512 44 GEORGIA R CHAMBLISS 27 532 0.949 84.000
109 29909 44 GEORGIA R ISAKSON 22 537 0.959 85.000
109 29537 65 NEVADA R ENSIGN 50 536 0.907 86.000
109 15406 51 KENTUCK R BUNNING 26 530 0.951 87.000
109 15424 53 OKLAHOM R INHOFE 44 536 0.918 88.000
109 49706 68 WYOMING R ENZI 28 519 0.946 89.000
109 40305 49 TEXAS R CORNYN 36 538 0.933 90.000
109 15633 68 WYOMING R THOMAS 33 521 0.937 91.000
109 29108 62 COLORAD R ALLARD 38 542 0.930 92.000
109 49700 41 ALABAMA R SESSIONS 29 542 0.946 93.000
109 29566 48 SOUTH C R GRAHAM 62 525 0.882 94.000
109 29555 53 OKLAHOM R COBURN 56 538 0.896 95.000
109 29548 47 NORTH C R BURR 36 537 0.933 96.000
109 29936 48 SOUTH C R DEMINT 26 538 0.952 97.000
109 14826 4 NEW HAM R GREGG 63 536 0.882 98.000
109 29740 4 NEW HAM R SUNUNU 61 529 0.885 99.000
109 15039 61 ARIZONA R MCCAIN 99 505 0.804 100.000
109 15429 61 ARIZONA R KYL 37 542 0.932 101.000

You will notice that McCain is the second most partisan Republican in the Senate.

So much for moderation, you really should learn not to listen to the main street media.

If you really wanted moderation, you would have Senator Collins & Senator Ben Nelson on the ticket, a liberal republican and a conservative democrat. Unfortunately the only thing you find in the middle of the road are Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos

Maxim

BBQ,
i appreciate yur points made about the Dems (of whom I am more often in line with) and I did not think u went over the top with your observations about Paul's affiliations. I just don't think it's worth the time n effort - the labels are often vague n misleading. I may be accused of being too liberal, but I am very conservative on financial issues, for instance.
I do care about is where the Dems come down on some of those issues u mentioned, though. I want the borders secured, illegal hiring stopped, etc. I don't have a good feeling that the Dems have my interest at heart!

DLS

"No real moderate is still backing the war, nor for the Bush tax breaks."

I'm afraid you're incorrect. A truly moderate position advocates leaving Iraq, but not stupidly rushing out prematurely; it also supports a reduced-size but long-term presence in Iraq if this presence is permitted by the authorities there, to do what the Arab League and the nations themselves are unable or unwilling to do when needed to resolve disputes that are going out of control. A truly moderate position in no way resists the Bush tax cuts, and always wants spending reduced, not only to prevent additional deficits in our future, but even if the taxes aren't reduce, to free what revenues can additionally be used to retire the debt as soon as we can do it.

Too many people seem to believe that "moderate" or "centrist" equates with the DNC, Brookings, or the New Deal Dinosaur, definitely liberal, Dem partisan late Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (The DNC and other liberals even continue to use the term that is so misleading when such people use it to refer to themselves, "the vital center" -- with vitality residing in Washington!)

DLS

The following is a better way to show how candidates rank as conservatives. Ron Paul is in the House, not the Senate, a larger body, and as a more libertarian kind of "conservative" doesn't vote the yes-no decision that the source classifies as the liberal or (traditional or authoritarian) conservative decision as often as the others.

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/06re...

For the Dems, Obama was the most liberal Senator last year, Clinton the 15th most liberal.

"Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007 ... the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., the other front-runner in the Democratic presidential race, also shifted to the left last year. She ranked as the 16th-most-liberal senator in the 2007 ratings ... In 2006, Clinton was the 32nd-most-liberal senator."

"In 2007, Obama's composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate. Rounding out the top five most liberal senators last year were Sens. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., with a composite liberal score of 94.3; Joseph Biden, D-Del., with a 94.2; Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., with a 93.7; and Robert Menendez, D-N.J., with a 92.8. "

"Clinton, meanwhile, tied as the 16th-most-liberal senator in 2007 with Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich.; both had a composite liberal score of 82.8. Clinton's home-state colleague, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., was the 15th-most-liberal, with a composite score of 83. "

Meanwhile, "Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score. He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories. On social issues, which include immigration, McCain received a conservative score of 59."

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

Jim_Satterfield

McCain is not and never has been anything except a member of the right wing who will occasionally break from them on a few issues. It's why I think that anyone who isn't a conservative and says they can vote for him just hasn't studied his record enough.

cosmoetica

DLS: Of course, to you, a John Bircher is moderate, but in the real world, the moderate position is now held by 70+% of the public. Get out yesterday.

BBQ

Or is the moderate position part of the 55% that think victory is achievable in Iraq. Or that 52% that think the U.S. military is making progress in improving conditions in Iraq and bringing an end to the violence in that country.

BBQ

Using poll numbers to define what is or isn't moderate is foolish. Also having a litmus test like being against the Iraq War is silly. In the beginning of the war if you were against it you were seen as a far left wingnut. Now it's somehow seen as the only moderate position and if your for keeping troops your now part of the wacky right wing.

I don't buy either state statement.

Jillmz

Labels. What are they good for? Absolutely nuthin'. Say it again now.

DLS

"Of course, to you, a John Bircher is moderate"

No, more like a Commie pinko, if we want to complete the distortion you introduced.

DLS

Words and labels mean things when they are correctly used. They lose their effectiveness when they're misused. Sometimes I correct the misuse, sometimes I just let it slide -- I have little confidence in correction and reform.

* * *

"anyone who isn't a conservative and says they can vote for him just hasn't studied his record enough"

Plenty of us who aren't "far right" [as goes the frequent lie on this site] or even well right of center would vote for McCain, holding nose and all (he's not a substantial alternative to the Democrats and Big Government), even people leaning left, as any time spent searching will reveal, if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee. (It may depend on who the VP choices are and how seriously the choices are taken.)

Slamfu

"A truly moderate position advocates leaving Iraq, but not stupidly rushing out prematurely; "

To paraphrase the Bush administration using a quote from Braveheart:

"STOP MEN! DO NOT FLEE! WAIT UNTIL WE'VE NEGOTIATED!"

Jim_Satterfield

DLS, you are far right. Virtually every single post you make makes that quite clear. Every so often you try to deny it. Then you attack anyone who isn't kissing Bush ass as having BDS and being "libs", "libbies" or "lib Dems". The rants about how there is no moderation on this site becaues you insist on claiming that you are a moderate when you are not are old and have been for a while now.

T-Steel

So when I say I'm a slantways independent, IT MEANS NOTHING?!?!?! Say it ain't so!

Plenty of us who aren't "far right" [as goes the frequent lie on this site] or even well right of center would vote for McCain, holding nose and all (he's not a substantial alternative to the Democrats and Big Government), even people leaning left, as any time spent searching will reveal, if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee.

I have to agree with DLS on that statement. The Clinton Machine has serious baggage that makes Senator Clinton very unpalatable to a sizable amount of the electorate. Watching how my once "ultra-loyal to the Clinton Machine" family jump ship to Senator Obama (and a few to Mike Huckabee) has been amazing.

DLS

"you are far right"

You and others routinely place so many of us there who aren't there you might not even recognize a real far righty if you encountered him or her (so far right he or she seemed "back around" on the other side, and you'd misjudge their populist nature for radical populism or populist radicalism).

Don't let the facts stand in the way of your beliefs and desires, though. In that you have plenty of company on your well-way-from-center (as opposed to my) placement.

Mr. Silver's statements that began this thread are well left of center, well left of Brookings, the DNC, and a number of Democratic politicians (particularly those who got burned and learned from the 1993-4 Clinton debacle and subsequent response from true moderates as well as those definitely on the right.). Were a contemporary movement to return toward constitutional federalism simply to cut costs in Washington and over-intrusion sought, many on this site would be repeating the myth (and likely lie) uttered by Schlesinger after 1994 as well as by fellow travelers like Pat Schroeder, that this was an attempt to return to the Articles of Confederation. (That's revealing insofar as what it implies about the intellectual and emotional capacities and levels of those to whom they were appealing.)

Putting the brakes on failure as well as monstrosity in Washington is in no way scary and Business as Usual is hardly "nuanced" (any more than turning one's hands and forearms in a circular motion while babbling about the need to "find a new paradigm in the policy-procedure mix" is).

DLS

DLS: even people leaning left, as any time spent searching will reveal, if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee.

TS2: I have to agree with DLS on that statement.

...............................................................................

1. The public is not a peaky, spiky bell curve standing straight in the center. The US public is slightly to the right (which is where most of us moderates are). Where most are clustered defines what is moderate. Most on this site are left, well left, of center as well as "moderate." "Moderate liberal" or "moderate Democrat" rather than far left or radical is the claim most of you can honestly make. Too many of you are distorted and see everything right of you as truly conservative and anything right of center or the general US public as "far right."

2. Everyone slants or leans one way or the other: "Nobody is a dumb post."

3. Plenty of right-leaning moderates, conservatives, and partisan Republicans (in a punitive mood) want to punish McCain and the GOP leadership by voting for Obama instead. Some of us simply think it's worth giving Obama a chance, period.

DLS

JMZ: Obama has just agreed to two more debates with Clinton (not giving in to her free-airtime demand of several debates, just two debates before two more primary elections).

One of the debates WILL BE IN CLEVELAND. 26 FEB.

FYI.

(There's apparently no date or location set in Texas yet. What are they waiting for? This is a DEM debate! It should be held in AUSTIN, the state's famous liberal oasis!!!)

Jim_Satterfield

Thank you for proving my point about your political leanings as well as your honesty, DLS.

PaulSilver

DLS:
"Mr. Silver's statements that began this thread are well left of center, well left of Brookings, the DNC, and a number of Democratic politicians"

Please explain.

cosmoetica

"Of course, to you, a John Bircher is moderate"

No, more like a Commie pinko, if we want to complete the distortion you introduced.

***But Commies are actually totalitarians, which are as far right as fascists, in the real world. What you meant to say was Anarchist, although the Birchers would smite you good.

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