You Can’t Divorce the President

Well, being straight and male, if I had to marry any of them, I suppose it would be Mrs. Clinton. Therefore, I won't vote for her now. ;)

Holly, excuse my impertinence, but I can't help but suspect that your obvious endorsement of Clinton over Obama has less to do with experience and a lot more to do with Obama's position on Israel and greater willingness to negotiate with Iran.

In actuality, Obama has far more experience dealing with people and problems- as a political organizer, than Hillary has.

I am completely fed up with the so called "experience" candidate for the dems. Since 1992, we've seen the same type of politics in play. That's 15 years. I for one am completely sick of it. I have nothing against Hillary personally, but I don't think I could stand another 4 years of how she is the anti christ from the right side of the aisle. We need change.

I think both Clinton and Obama have something to offer= Clinton -her calm competence and ability to conceptualize detailed policies, and Obama- freshness, charisma and the ability to emotionally connect with a large crowd. Too bad they are bashing each other, it would be great to have all of these qualities on the Democratic ticket. It could be a lot worse. Remember Dukakis?

The whole experience thing being thrown around on the left is easily discounted.

Richardson Dodd and Biden all had the greater experience that the rest combined, perhaps Dodd and Biden combined without Richardson.

To many to easily distracted here

This comment is maddeningly cryptic.

Would it kill you to name some names?

The best comment on why Hillary is tanking:

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2008/01/jilting-...

You would have an easier case to prove that independents are just piling on the Obama camp not out of Obama love but to ensure defeat for Hillary in the primaries.

There is a lot of anybody but Hillary feeling out there which could be what is driving unusual turn out and strong leads for Obama.

Simply put there is not enough message difference for Obama to justify the feeding frenzy.

But if you consider right leaning independents even willing to just for the primaries vote for Obama to make sure Hillary is gone, then you can make a case for it.

Youth and beauty?

Holy straw argument batman.

This is the kind of post that really ticks me off. Who do you think you're speaking to? A bunch of uneducated kindergartners? What makes you think that we DON'T think before we vote? You don't even provide any reasoning behind the post - just a somber warning that we must be too stoopid to vote the way you want us to.

As an addendum - after 8 years of President Bush, I don't think you need to tell anyone here what the consequences of a presidential election are.

This is a fairly insulting post.

How exactly is this is a substantive argument that deserves to be on the front page of this website?

You taking notes from the Ronulans?

Believe it or not but, being a heterosexual male, I'm not actually attracted to Barack Obama whatsoever. And yet, I still want to see him become President. How can that be possible?

Maybe if Hillary could gin up some more tears and then explain them like this...

"Well you know, I actually have emotions — I know there are some people who doubt that, but you know, I really am so touched by what I hear from people," said the New York senator. "It's usually about their problems.

“It's usually a mother who throws arm around me and says thank you for the Children's Health Care insurance program, or a man who drove here all the way here from New York to say I'd saved jobs in New York. That's really moving to me. That's how I judge the job I'm doing."

"So when this woman, this really kind woman, said to me, 'Well, how are you doing?' it was so touching to me," she said. "I'm so other-oriented. You know I'm not good about talking about myself. I don't get up and think about how I'm going to present myself. I think about, 'What am I going to do today to actually make a difference in someone's life?'"

I was a kid during Kennedy, but he had the same youthful vigor that Obama projects, while Nixon was the voice of experience. So who would argue today that we would have been better off ignoring Kennedy's youth and charisma?

Of course most of the Obama fans are drawn to the superficial. That never was a surprise. The problem is that the Washington "fixtures" (which include Biden, whom some lefties on here respected) are long associated with Business As Usual. (The same is true for that dippy Unity group.)

Don't worry mom, I've got protection.

Really? You have any empirical evidence to suggest that Obama fans are drawn to the superficial?

Obama is a phenomenon plain and simple. He's bringing out new voters and that can't be just washed away. He represents a difference to a sizable audience and people are responding. That's just the fact. Will this make me, a lifelong third party protest voter, swing Obama's way. I don't know. But for the first time since I've been participating in the process, a Big 2 politician has my ear a little.

Although Huckabee gets a smile out of me every time I see him. Yeah yeah that's being shallow but your reading a protest voter!

"evidence ... Obama fans are drawn to the superficial"

Well, there's always the behavior of so many of the fans given what they and we have been given, but hard reality may be unacceptable to some.

We have yet to be given any depth. We get a nice smile (the New York Times transferred "sunny" from Edwards to Obama recently) and nice words, but no depth. (Being anti-war requires no depth!) Most of his fans, who are young, like him because he's young and attractive and isn't one of the regular DC people. It didn't even require observation and listening and reading these people to know the obvious. Next I presume it'll be questioned that so many of the young voters are idealistic and naive...

* * *

"Obama is a phenomenon plain and simple. He's bringing out new voters and that can't be just washed away."

Agreed. 1960s, snazzy Corvette versus staid Cadillacs...no, not the next JFK, but appealing to many from a youth and "difference" standpoint nevertheless. (Now let's hear his plans, his list of Cabinet members...)

DLS: You seem to confuse Obama with Romney. The D's have been far more detailed in their debates, whereas the R's are sloganeering.

It does not take any depth to be a warmonger, but takes an ability to see nuances to discern failure.

No Cabinet nominees are ever discussed till a nom is wrapped, and a win in the general is looming.

Now, let's hear some real evidence of callowness from O.

"You seem to confuse Obama with Romney. The D's have been far more detailed in their debates, whereas the R's are sloganeering."

Why, not at all. I didn't mention the Rs in my earlier remark, while I've been on record elsewhere as disparaging our R candidates (well, I'm somewhat soft on Huckabee, but I see him as VP, if anything).

"takes an ability to see nuances to discern failure [in Iraq]"

Not in this case! The real problem is how we arrange to get out.

"No Cabinet nominees are ever discussed"

... until after the election, sadly, but some of us want to know more before then.

"let's hear some real evidence of callowness"

??? He's given us no depth. He's merely D for Different.

Holly is on the mark. Just imagine, if people in this country actually voted based on reasons of substance and record, rather than image and imagined ideology, we might actually have a shot at something approaching (dare I say it) leadership!

It's not only the people who vote without thinking (and I'm not addressing anyone on here- I'm making a general observation- so don't even go there with me if you take this personally) who are to blame for the outcome, it is also all those citizens out there who could care less and do not vote at all. For the 2004 Presidential election only 60.7% of the electorate voted.

DLS: Stating 'He's given us no depth' is no reason. One can strike off a litany of points he's made in speeches and online. So, what's not deep?

Stockboy: The reason people don't vote is because those who do pick hacks like the Bushes, Gore, Kerry, and the Clintons. If you actually vote for someone who you agree with- say Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich, you are mocked.

The sheeple effect is too strong.