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Clinton Unifies on One Issue

Cross-posted to the Debate Link

I like Hillary Clinton. She’s not my favorite candidate, but I’d be quite pleased with her as President. And even when she annoys me (as, like any politician, she does from time to time), I respect her talent, drive and abilities.

But the one thing that really pushes me towards Hillary more than anything else is the blind, frothing hatred that is directed at her. It viscerally offends me, and makes me want to stand in her corner on fairness grounds alone. People worry about whether Obama would be safe as President, but honestly I think that Clinton faces a bigger threat. For fifteen years now, an entire cesspool of hate has bubbled around Hillary Clinton, one that has been fanned (if not sanctioned) by “mainstream” conservative forces. And let’s be clear: it openly fantasizes about violence against her. Is there any contemporary analogue to the “I Wish Hillary had Married O.J.” t-shirts? It’s sick.

That’s why recently, I’ve been pleased to see a diverse array of bloggers who have been willing to call folks out on the misogynistic BS Hillary faces as a matter of course. The response to the tears at the New Hampshire rally (prompting ABC to question whether her emotions will “get the best of her”). The buzzing about her “too harsh” responses about change at the Democratic debate. She’s a cold emasculating ball-buster, when she isn’t a frail, emotional wimp.

Stephen Suh summarizes the absurd double standard:

Is Hillary ahead in the polls? Then she’s too cold, too ambitious and calculating. She’s a woman, after all, and women are all nurture-y and, um, I don’t know, emotional and stuff. Has Hillary lost her composure at any point? Then she’s too emotional, too unstable. She’s a woman, after all, and they can’t be trusted to keep their inner weaknesses in check. That’s why women aren’t good leaders, you know.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t surprise me to see this type of treatment. It’s always there when a woman gets uppity. She’s too mannish until people find a way to describe her as too typically “female.” Then they’ll go straight back to the original criticism without missing a beat.

Reformed conservative John Cole, who I know is no fan of Clinton, similarly is sick of it, and pegs the source of the problem right where it should be: Hillary’s a women, and folks can’t stand the idea of a women showing a spine:

Quite frankly, I hate to say this, but I think what we are actually seeing is a double-standard here, and the feminists may be right. This is all about Hillary being a woman. John Edwards has been 150 times as angry the whole campaign, and has built his entire campaign around it. Howard Dean was angry, and people lapped it up. Here, Hillary isn’t really angry, just matter-of-fact and frustrated, and people are giving her shit.

He’s right about Edwards. Of course, if a women shows any degree of softness, then the other foot drops: she’s weak and emotional. Here Steve Benen rightfully hits Edwards for cheap-shotting Hillary on that very point.

These are not Hillary fans. But they’re hitting back against the clear, persistent, and unmistakable sexism that has plagued Clinton’s campaign from day one. If someone as powerful, educated, talented, and able as Clinton can fall prey to it, what makes us think other women will be spared?

  • My wife told me yesterday that Hillary is the victim of "The Bill Clinton Hate Shower". She's married to the hated Bill so she gets the hated Bill love. I didn't read "shrill" or "cracking" from Hillary's reaction in the debate to John Edwards' criticism. She looked surprised and reacted strongly. What's wrong with that?

    Hillary Clinton is losing ground because of nearly 20 years of Bush-Clinton leadership. People just want a *gulp*....

    CHANGE!

    Ok, I promise not to say the C-word for awhile.
  • DLS
    Hillary Clinton has been revolting in the past (when she went far to the Left as co-President after 1993) and normal, decent people's revulsion (as well as to her husban) is (unsurprisingly) wrongly described here.

    Ironically, the true, factual hatred for Reagan and the even worse hatred directed at Bush, which is truly deranged, is denied by the same people who routinely make false charges about normal Americans' dislike of the Clintons.

    What's really funny is the attacks on her by liberals, particularly those who either think she's too far right [snicker] or have already adopted Obama with their hearts and souls.

    * * *

    "She looked surprised and reacted strongly. What's wrong with that?"

    Nothing. I would expect her or anyone else to do that; to do little or nothing would amount to a concession of defeat or admission that the criticism was valid.
  • DLS
    "She's married to the hated Bill so she gets the hated Bill love"

    During 1993-4, she offended people more than her husband did. You can give her and her health care antics 70+ per cent of the "credit" for the 1994 election results.
  • pacatrue
    Just thought I'd mention that I am not nor have ever been repulsed by Clinton and yet I do my best to be relatively normal and decent.
  • Abby
    David, I totally share your thoughts on Hilary Clinton. I just want to also share my own percerptions on the race to get the Democratic nomination and why we need to seriously ponder the consequences we face in our decision in choosing the right candidate for the Democratic Nomination for this year's Presidential election.
    I am a pragmatist. Whether it is real or imaginary, some people do not seem to like all they see in Hilary Clinton for some reason. That's to be expected, nobody is perfect. However, judging from the present pool of presidential candidates I see we have at the moment, I believe she is the best hope Democrats have if they are to regain the White House and forstall another Republican victory of four more years.
    I don't want to be conspiracy theorist, but I am very weary of a news media (mostly corporate controlled) , that seems to believe that it is front page news for a politician to show any sign of emotion during a grueling election campaign and interpret it as some kind of weakness. Remember the Howard Dean incident? Now it's Hilary Clinton's turn for the same Republican playblook. Do you have to be a "Terminator" to run for office? At a time when the media should be looking at serious issues in terms of the economy, Iraq and the like and how the candidates stand on them, they are more concerned about whether a candidate is more likeable than another. Remember the spin they put out about George Bush being more likeable than Al Gore in 2000? What has Mister "Likeable" produced for the country after eight years?
    The Clintons have been tried and tested against the Republican machine that is why from day one the Republican Spin Machine is determined to halt her progress through their surrogates in the media for the democratic nomination.
    I do believe Barrack Obama is a very intelligent, articulate and dynamic politican. However after critical looking at the junior Senator, I do believe he will probably not be able to withstand the onslaught that will be directed at him if he is made the nominee. The Republicans are waiting with glee for this to happen mark my words.
    Hilary Clinton is the one they fear most, so don't believe anything contrary.
    I know many of us as Democrats, are very angry about the state of affairs in the country. However we should not let our emotions blind us and get us into a situation where we will once again hand the White House to the Republicans for another four years." A word to the wise is quite sufficient".
  • DLS
    "yet I do my best to be relatively normal and decent"

    Some of y'all liked Bill Clinton, too. No, make that many of y'all. Look at 1996's election results. While Dole stank (the Old Guard resisted post-1994 reforms in DC), you can't blame it entirely on the GOP (except maybe to ask if there was a defensive reaction by Dems to all the Clinton criticism).
  • DLS
    "I believe she is the best hope Democrats have if they are to regain the White House and forstall another Republican victory"

    Well, you're in luck, Abby.

    For all the Obama hype, Clinton remains the anticipated winner. Let's see how she stands up overall after February 15; I have said that even if she comes in second to Obama overall (after all the primary and caucus results up through that date), she still logically can and should continue her campaign. I wouldn't say that about anyone else except maybe Obama.

    Also, I'm sure you are aware that libs and Dems are at risk of being far too over-confident at this time about November's prospects. But given the GOP field and the way things have been going, it's easy to see why you may be over-confident. I anticipate a Dem White House in 2009. And this year, a desperation brand-name-recognition entry on the GOP side by Jeb Bush would not succeed, and in fact might backfire!
  • DLS
    The liberal media have rushed to adopt Obama and liberals on here have been trashing Clinton (someone given to radicalism once in office, be it officially or otherwise); who knows if that will become a longer trend. Should we call that "sexism" [sic], too?

    Words of warning: Do not dishonestly accuse critics of Clinton, who criticize her on her politics and her record of [mis]conduct while in the White House previously, as "sexism" [sic]. Don't be even more dumb and say this illustrates some pervasive, oppressive societal characteristic that ceased to exist after the 1960s.
  • cosmoetica
    David: Could this post be any more trite? C'mon, Hillary is despised because she wears the same air of entitlement that W did and does. This is why the opposite camps hate both. Of course, W started a war on false pretenses and 1000s have died, so the Left has justified its hatred, whereas the Right can only slaver in anticipation.

    From the linked article: 'To be sure, Clinton’s comments might have been a little more touching if she hadn’t launched into her anti-Obama talking points through her tears, but given the circumstances, I’m willing to cut her all kinds of slack.'

    I'm not gonna cut her slack, for the very talking points routine shows that it was fairly well calculated and not genuine.

    I liked Hillary alot, more than Bill, who I voted for in '94, but both went into the crapper when the R's beat'em on Healthcare. They were more concerned with power retention than making a difference. Hillary's been the same in the Senate.

    She rips Big O about funding the war he opposed. After she voted FOR it! Gimme a break- she's a hack's hack, and for once the Am public may reject hackery and go for a chance. I did in '92, with Bill, but after his lackluster first term, I've gone Indy 3x in a row.

    A Hillary win loses millions of possible Dem voters like me. Make her the nominee at your own peril. Edwards or Obama will kick the R's asses, but Hillary cd lose to a genial guy like Huckabee, and possibly McCain.

    DLS: 'Ironically, the true, factual hatred for Reagan and the even worse hatred directed at Bush, which is truly deranged, is denied by the same people who routinely make false charges about normal Americans' dislike of the Clintons.'

    There is factual hatred for Reagan, but the old turkey wattle earned every inch of it w the PATCO fiasco, the deficit, the ignorance of AIDS, the backhanded racism, the gutting of social programs, the S&L scandal, the 87-92 Depression, Iran-Contra, and countless other plagues and scandals. And if you are still even remotely defending W you are again proving BDS is the syndrome by those so out of touch they still think he's ok as Prez.

    Abby: 'Hilary Clinton is the one they fear most, so don't believe anything contrary.'

    100% wrong. The R's know she's their only chance at beating a Dem. Have you watched the debates. The R's are so out of touch w reality that O or Edwards will destroy their nominee. Only Hillary can lose! On this score, I agree with DLS.

    ***chill***
  • DLS
    "Clinton is the one they fear most"

    She's the strongest (at least on paper), has the party machine behind her, and remains the anticipated nominee despite current Obama hype and a substantial preference by many lib & Dem (and some GOP) voters for Obama.

    Y'all's turn...
  • DLS
    "On this score, I agree with DLS"

    Sorry, Obama, I am the one who just experienced a miracle!

    * * *

    Clinton has strong negatives, the strongest among the Dems.

    Nevertheless, I believe that she's still the strongest and there's no way a GOP guy from this field is going to beat her.

    Let's see how things are after Feb 15. And tomorrow in NH is going to be interesting...
  • DLS
    Cosmo, you are overreacting to Reagan. Also, if you look on another thread, I deliberately place Reagan below Lincoln, FDR(?), and JFK (to whom Obama is already being compared).

    "And if you are still even remotely defending W you are again proving BDS is the syndrome by those so out of touch they still think he's ok as Prez."

    Non sequitur -- does not follow. Also what I have done is decried the obviously hatred and, yes, deranged behavior flung at Bush. (No, Bhutto's assassination was not Bush's fault. [sigh]) That is not the same as defending Bush. I've openly questioned whether he will be sought for endorsements or (consider this) appearances with GOP candidates for various offices this year. (Now why would this be questioned by me or by anyone else? Maybe, because he is not an asset but instead a liability?)
  • cosmoetica
    So, you had to disagree?

    Edwards: By far the most knowledgeable candidate in either party, and the best debater, by far. The R's are shitting pickles if a populist with anger gets the nom. But, he won't.

    Obama: How do they beat him? He was not in the Senate for the War vote. He's riding the anti-war, pro-healthcare wave. These 2 things all the R's are against. Aside from a blatant appeal to what happens if 'one of them' gets in, he'll beat the R with the working class, Indies, kids, and R's sick of Bush.

    Hillary: She's Gore and Kerry with breasts. The R's are slavering over getting her in the general. Can she win? Yes, esp. if it's Giuliani or Romney. But a surging Huckabee is likable and liberal on governance, if Right Wing on religion. And McCain can take up much of the Hillary haters that turn off. Me? If she gets it I pray for Bloomberg to get in. But that'll kill Hill.
  • cosmoetica
    DLS: I'd place Reagan below Millard Fillmore and Franklin Pierce. Next!

    As for Bush- not the word 'if.'
  • cosmoetica
    That's note, not not.
  • DLS
    But a surging Huckabee is likable and liberal on governance, if Right Wing on religion.

    Because he is Religious Right, the liberal media will, literally, crucify him. Also, the Religious Right is hardly the only constituent element of the Right (or those of us on the non-left, a somewhat larger group) and Huck's occasional gaffes may make people recall Bush's. I can see Huck being shoved into the VP slot to try to get those Religious Right votes in November (not that they would rush to vote Democratic without Huck there).

    * * *

    "Obama: How do they beat him?"

    These are ideas. I don't know if they'd work, though.

    1. Cast him as inexperienced and appeal to the older, often more-knowledgeable (and less naive!) voters, to vote for the other guy. This is similar to the appeal that Clinton has with older voters now versus Obama and younger voters, but in this case it would be more deliberately sought.

    2. Inform voters that he is a typical big-city machine politician, i.e., even more in the past than many in DC already.

    3. Expose his record, which at least one organization rated as more liberal than that of Dennis Kucinich.

    what would really help would be

    4. Get a GOP candidate who appeals to voters and who offers something positive to voters. (Please try not to laugh too loudly.)
  • Amanda
    David, I absolutely disagree with the gist of this post. Obviously there is no denying that some, and I stress some, people rabidly hate Hillary Clinton in an irrational manner. However, to cry sexism every time a person raises a valid objection to her candidacy is just idiotic and it only serves to undermine the cause of equal rights. If you want people to judge Hillary on her own merits, then you must accept that we will also judge her flaws. As you said, nobody is perfect. And I for one take serious issue with some of Hillary's decisions and votes. Please, stop telling me how I perceive her and how that view of her is wrong.
  • cosmoetica
    Amanda: Right on- this was a post wholly w/o substance.

    DLS: Re: Obama-
    1) He has more politcal experience than Hillary in dealing w people, and all but a few R's. People want change. Won't work.

    2) there are no black political machines, esp. in Chicago. Cronyism, yes.
    But a machine? No.

    3) This is 2008. The L word no longer works.

    4) The name is Huckabee, and I'm not giggling.
  • cosmoetica
  • maggielayne
    Iowa did not vote for a black man--they voted against a female. They did not vote against a war--they voted against a female. We need to wake up and smell the coffee.

    I recently asked a group of females between the ages of 18 to 25 if they prefer a woman president or a black male president and they all said a woman should not be president and they all said that being black did not matter. Their reasoning was that OTHER countries would not take a Female President seriously and that it would be bad for foreign relationships (in spite of Margaret Thatcher).

    Shame on us for not recognizing that women are more discriminated against than black people and shame on all females for not supporting a great candidate because she is a female. And shame on us for not noticing what this is really about, discrimination against women!!! (Do your own poll, but ask the question correctly , should a woman be president, and do not use Hillary specifically) The women say no more than the men do.

    Hillary will lose not because of men and not because of war, but because women trust men (black or white) more than they trust women and women are lucky they were ever even allowed to vote. With this attitude, we will never see a female president. We are still living in the dark ages and should not be criticizing other countries for their treatment of women. We do it here-we just hide it better.

    Take a look at the black poulation of our country, they have rallied around their candidate specifically because he is black, but no one talks about this because it is politically incorrect, they would be labeled as prejudiced. But I do not see women supporting Hillary Clinton just because she is a female!!! I do not hear anyone saying that if Obama is elected as President that Oprah will be appointed to the Supreme Court but I hear them saying that If Hillary is elected as President, Bill Clinton will be appointed to the Supreme Court.

    According to my brief survey, the newest voting generation still discriminates against women! This is a very sad situation--we are really no better than Iraq!
  • cosmoetica
    Back in the real world, Maggie:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320532,00.html

    Hillary captures more blacks than Obama- avr. blacks and celebs.

    'Shame on us for not recognizing that women are more discriminated against than black people and shame on all females for not supporting a great candidate because she is a female.'

    The first part of this sentence is laughable. Ask black women if they are more discriminated for their race or sex.

    Let's see: are you a white female under 30? Suburbanite?

    Read the link I provided above. The best blogosphere commentary on Hillary yet.
  • cosmoetica
    Boy, those NH voters really discriminated against Hillary.

    So, Maggie, I guess your whining was pointless. eh?
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