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	<title>Comments on: Are False Rumors about Obama&#8217;s Religion Really about Race?</title>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108265</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108265</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;You have absolutely no evidence that these chain letter are coming from the far left.&lt;/em&gt;

Geeze Elrod......since when does anyone need evidence of a conspiracy Theory???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>You have absolutely no evidence that these chain letter are coming from the far left.</em></p>
<p>Geeze Elrod&#8230;&#8230;since when does anyone need evidence of a conspiracy Theory???</p>
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		<title>By: StockBoySF</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108258</link>
		<dc:creator>StockBoySF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108258</guid>
		<description>Elrod, great comments on identity politics.  Thanks!

Given the various comments here, I think it&#039;s clear that America is making social progress and moving away from issues of racism, gender, etc.  But to some people one&#039;s skin color (or whatever prejudices they have) matters a great deal. It&#039;s great to see America becoming more accepting of others.  Whether now is the time for a woman or black Prez. I don&#039;t know.  Though I think both Hillary and Obama both have a great shot at the WH.  

It will be interesting to see if the eventual Republican nominee will pull the gender (or race card, assuming either Hillary or Obama is the Dem. nominee) at the risk of alienating a crucial voting block- the moderates/independents/undecideds.  

I think the religion card being pulled on Obama is about his race.  My brother- a white Southern Republican will not vote for Obama because he say that Obama is a muslim.  And because it&#039;s a rumor, there must be some truth in it, otherwise the people who say it can be thrown in jail.  I say that not only because it&#039;s what he believes but to illustrate that otherwise intelligent people don&#039;t often think things through all the way and make stupid comments- but generally they do so to support what they want to believe.

So yeah, a lot of people find it more acceptable to believe that Obama is a manchurian Muslim candidate who doesn&#039;t hold his hand over his heart when saying the Pledge of Allegiance, than to acknowledge their own racist thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elrod, great comments on identity politics.  Thanks!</p>
<p>Given the various comments here, I think it&#8217;s clear that America is making social progress and moving away from issues of racism, gender, etc.  But to some people one&#8217;s skin color (or whatever prejudices they have) matters a great deal. It&#8217;s great to see America becoming more accepting of others.  Whether now is the time for a woman or black Prez. I don&#8217;t know.  Though I think both Hillary and Obama both have a great shot at the WH.  </p>
<p>It will be interesting to see if the eventual Republican nominee will pull the gender (or race card, assuming either Hillary or Obama is the Dem. nominee) at the risk of alienating a crucial voting block- the moderates/independents/undecideds.  </p>
<p>I think the religion card being pulled on Obama is about his race.  My brother- a white Southern Republican will not vote for Obama because he say that Obama is a muslim.  And because it&#8217;s a rumor, there must be some truth in it, otherwise the people who say it can be thrown in jail.  I say that not only because it&#8217;s what he believes but to illustrate that otherwise intelligent people don&#8217;t often think things through all the way and make stupid comments- but generally they do so to support what they want to believe.</p>
<p>So yeah, a lot of people find it more acceptable to believe that Obama is a manchurian Muslim candidate who doesn&#8217;t hold his hand over his heart when saying the Pledge of Allegiance, than to acknowledge their own racist thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Elrod</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108245</link>
		<dc:creator>Elrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108245</guid>
		<description>Somebody, 
There are conspiracy theorists on the left and the right. You have absolutely no evidence that these chain letter are coming from the far left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody,<br />
There are conspiracy theorists on the left and the right. You have absolutely no evidence that these chain letter are coming from the far left.</p>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108240</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108240</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt; 
 Chain emails suggesting Obama is secretly a Muslim Manchurian candidate certainly appeal to a uniquely wicked element of the American polity.&lt;/em&gt;

Wrong the whackos that believe Bush Bombed the WTS are the same ones who believe this conspiracy stuff in chain letters. 

Obama is the far left darling.  They are the ones who believe this conspiracy stuff.  It is they who have started these letters to cast dispersions upon the Right or even moderates in this election.
 
&lt;em&gt;I have stated over and over.  Attack yourself and let the internet defend you.&lt;/em&gt;

Obama and his minions have mastered this early on in this election.  The rest of the candidates just dont get it yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><br />
 Chain emails suggesting Obama is secretly a Muslim Manchurian candidate certainly appeal to a uniquely wicked element of the American polity.</em></p>
<p>Wrong the whackos that believe Bush Bombed the WTS are the same ones who believe this conspiracy stuff in chain letters. </p>
<p>Obama is the far left darling.  They are the ones who believe this conspiracy stuff.  It is they who have started these letters to cast dispersions upon the Right or even moderates in this election.</p>
<p><em>I have stated over and over.  Attack yourself and let the internet defend you.</em></p>
<p>Obama and his minions have mastered this early on in this election.  The rest of the candidates just dont get it yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108239</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108239</guid>
		<description>Its not obsolete.  There are millions of people that won&#039;t vote for a black man for president even if God came down and endorsed him.  I&#039;ve traveled around the country a bit, have relatives in the midwest and Ohio, went to school in Pennsylvania, good friends with folks that went to schools outside my homestate in the midwest and south who have all related a general feeling that my experiences in college were not unique.  

There is a reason Rush can get kicked off the air withing 10 minutes for making a racial comment and still have legions of fans that don&#039;t see a thing wrong with what he said.  Ditto O&#039;Reilly.   There are millions of people that share the mindset of nowhere near Klan mentality, but I&#039;ll be damned if I let my daughter date one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not obsolete.  There are millions of people that won&#8217;t vote for a black man for president even if God came down and endorsed him.  I&#8217;ve traveled around the country a bit, have relatives in the midwest and Ohio, went to school in Pennsylvania, good friends with folks that went to schools outside my homestate in the midwest and south who have all related a general feeling that my experiences in college were not unique.  </p>
<p>There is a reason Rush can get kicked off the air withing 10 minutes for making a racial comment and still have legions of fans that don&#8217;t see a thing wrong with what he said.  Ditto O&#8217;Reilly.   There are millions of people that share the mindset of nowhere near Klan mentality, but I&#8217;ll be damned if I let my daughter date one.</p>
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		<title>By: cosmoetica</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108230</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108230</guid>
		<description>Elrod: In answer to your q: Duh!

Anyone who disagrees is really living in an alternate universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elrod: In answer to your q: Duh!</p>
<p>Anyone who disagrees is really living in an alternate universe.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108226</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108226</guid>
		<description>I personally would love to believe that race/gender/status discrimination is &quot;obsolete,&quot; but unfortunately the facts don&#039;t support this view. I commend to TMV readers the book &lt;em&gt;Blink&lt;/em&gt;, which does a depressingly thorough job of showing how deeply and unconsciously we are prejudiced. This comes through loud and clear when women themselves have difficulty placing management or career words in a woman/career column, and when even blacks are unable to quickly and reliably categorize good attributes with black. The book also points out that while none of us would admit to a bias toward tallness in hiring executive management, in fact our country&#039;s CEO&#039;s are far taller than our national average of male height (it goes without saying that they are far more male and white than the population average). The book&#039;s poster child example of how our decision-making process can be compromised by our prejudices, is the rise of Warren Harding to the presidency. The man just &quot;looked&quot; presidential.

These prejudices are culturally ingrained from a very early age, and apparently, we all suffer from them. If you think you are the exception, head on over to the Harvard psychology department and try out their nifty &lt;a href=&quot;https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;test &lt;/a&gt;of your ingrained &quot;implicit associations.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally would love to believe that race/gender/status discrimination is &#8220;obsolete,&#8221; but unfortunately the facts don&#8217;t support this view. I commend to TMV readers the book <em>Blink</em>, which does a depressingly thorough job of showing how deeply and unconsciously we are prejudiced. This comes through loud and clear when women themselves have difficulty placing management or career words in a woman/career column, and when even blacks are unable to quickly and reliably categorize good attributes with black. The book also points out that while none of us would admit to a bias toward tallness in hiring executive management, in fact our country&#8217;s CEO&#8217;s are far taller than our national average of male height (it goes without saying that they are far more male and white than the population average). The book&#8217;s poster child example of how our decision-making process can be compromised by our prejudices, is the rise of Warren Harding to the presidency. The man just &#8220;looked&#8221; presidential.</p>
<p>These prejudices are culturally ingrained from a very early age, and apparently, we all suffer from them. If you think you are the exception, head on over to the Harvard psychology department and try out their nifty <a href="https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1" rel="nofollow">test </a>of your ingrained &#8220;implicit associations.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Elrod</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108208</link>
		<dc:creator>Elrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108208</guid>
		<description>People can oppose Obama for any number of reasons: his inexperience, his ideology, his policy positions, his tone, his character, his associations, his party, etc. But when people start spreading blatantly false rumors about him then something else is going on.  This isn&#039;t a pre-emptive excuse for his potential failure. Some might be ready to falsely &quot;play the race and gender card&quot; but I&#039;m not. 

Identity politics is not going away. In fact, a big reason for Mike Huckabee&#039;s rise is Evangelical Christian identity politics. I see it all the time here in East Tennessee, where people wear t-shirts and display bumper stickers showing off their faith. Why are they doing that? Is it supposed to convince non-Christians like me that I should convert to Christianity...a crass form of &quot;witnessing?&quot; I doubt it. A better explanation is that evangelicals feel marginalized in the modern secular culture and they want to proclaim for everybody that they are unashamed to be who they are. Just as gays did when they marched flambuoyantly, or blacks did with black power, women with bra burnings, modern evangelicals are forcing the wider public to take notice of them as a social group to be respected. 

And sometimes it all goes overboard, as with the Duke lacrosse case, or with overzealous Christian fundamentalism, or Tawana Brawley-style race hustling.  

But none of that has to do with the &quot;Muslim&quot; campaign against Obama. Take him or leave him on the merits. Celebrate or ignore his identity politics - every candidate brings some sort of identity politics to the fore (Rudy it&#039;s Italian NYC, Romney it&#039;s Mormonism, McCain it&#039;s veterans, Edwards and Thompson it&#039;s Southernness, Hillary it&#039;s gender, Obama it&#039;s race, Hucakbee it&#039;s religion, etc.). But don&#039;t make up stuff about the candidate&#039;s identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People can oppose Obama for any number of reasons: his inexperience, his ideology, his policy positions, his tone, his character, his associations, his party, etc. But when people start spreading blatantly false rumors about him then something else is going on.  This isn&#8217;t a pre-emptive excuse for his potential failure. Some might be ready to falsely &#8220;play the race and gender card&#8221; but I&#8217;m not. </p>
<p>Identity politics is not going away. In fact, a big reason for Mike Huckabee&#8217;s rise is Evangelical Christian identity politics. I see it all the time here in East Tennessee, where people wear t-shirts and display bumper stickers showing off their faith. Why are they doing that? Is it supposed to convince non-Christians like me that I should convert to Christianity&#8230;a crass form of &#8220;witnessing?&#8221; I doubt it. A better explanation is that evangelicals feel marginalized in the modern secular culture and they want to proclaim for everybody that they are unashamed to be who they are. Just as gays did when they marched flambuoyantly, or blacks did with black power, women with bra burnings, modern evangelicals are forcing the wider public to take notice of them as a social group to be respected. </p>
<p>And sometimes it all goes overboard, as with the Duke lacrosse case, or with overzealous Christian fundamentalism, or Tawana Brawley-style race hustling.  </p>
<p>But none of that has to do with the &#8220;Muslim&#8221; campaign against Obama. Take him or leave him on the merits. Celebrate or ignore his identity politics &#8211; every candidate brings some sort of identity politics to the fore (Rudy it&#8217;s Italian NYC, Romney it&#8217;s Mormonism, McCain it&#8217;s veterans, Edwards and Thompson it&#8217;s Southernness, Hillary it&#8217;s gender, Obama it&#8217;s race, Hucakbee it&#8217;s religion, etc.). But don&#8217;t make up stuff about the candidate&#8217;s identity.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108205</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108205</guid>
		<description>Yes, the race-class-gender discrimination excuse is obsolete.  Anybody trying to falsely pre-paint those who likely won&#039;t vote for Obama or Clinton as discriminatory is engaging in dishonesty that is laughable.  As has been repeated a number of times (for remedial effort that may or may not be fruitful), people object to Obama or to Clinton mainly on ideological grounds (and with Clinton, a previous poor history in the White House), not due to their race or sex; plenty of us wanted to see Colin Powell be president years ago.

It won&#039;t be long before Clinton or Obama plays the sex or race card in the campaign -- if not someone else, in order for the candidates to &quot;evade&quot; responsibility.  The implications or outright dishonest statements that people oppose her or him due to sexism or racism will surface soon, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the race-class-gender discrimination excuse is obsolete.  Anybody trying to falsely pre-paint those who likely won&#8217;t vote for Obama or Clinton as discriminatory is engaging in dishonesty that is laughable.  As has been repeated a number of times (for remedial effort that may or may not be fruitful), people object to Obama or to Clinton mainly on ideological grounds (and with Clinton, a previous poor history in the White House), not due to their race or sex; plenty of us wanted to see Colin Powell be president years ago.</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t be long before Clinton or Obama plays the sex or race card in the campaign &#8212; if not someone else, in order for the candidates to &#8220;evade&#8221; responsibility.  The implications or outright dishonest statements that people oppose her or him due to sexism or racism will surface soon, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Orson Buggeigh</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108199</link>
		<dc:creator>Orson Buggeigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108199</guid>
		<description>Elrod, I think the &#039;race / class / gender&#039; approach to understanding the world has outlived its usefulness.  I&#039;ve no doubt there are a few right wing bigots who won&#039;t vote for Obama  because he&#039;s not white, or for Hillary because she&#039;s not male.  But it would seem, looking at the media and blogs for the past couple of years, that the biggest collection of public bigots is the diversity crowd.  Exhibit &quot;A&quot; is the faculty and administration at Duke University.  John Edwards cheerfully hired the Pandagon team as his official bloggers, despite the fact that it was obvious to anyone with an IQ of room temperature that the so called rape case was a frame,which was being actively encouraged by the sensitive faculty leadership and administration of the university.  Duke, and Edwards, and the Democratic party have just ignored the declaration of absolute innocence of the three wrongly accused, hoping that the world will eventually forget it.  In that respect, you are correct - they are just like the old racists in the  1960&#039;s and early 1970&#039;s, who want to forget about their bigotry.  

Yes, maybe there is some racial animus toward Obama.  But perhaps its just politics as usual - nasty remarks are nothing new, and neither party gets high marks for clean campaigning.  

My opinion and a buck buys a cuppa coffee

Orson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elrod, I think the &#8216;race / class / gender&#8217; approach to understanding the world has outlived its usefulness.  I&#8217;ve no doubt there are a few right wing bigots who won&#8217;t vote for Obama  because he&#8217;s not white, or for Hillary because she&#8217;s not male.  But it would seem, looking at the media and blogs for the past couple of years, that the biggest collection of public bigots is the diversity crowd.  Exhibit &#8220;A&#8221; is the faculty and administration at Duke University.  John Edwards cheerfully hired the Pandagon team as his official bloggers, despite the fact that it was obvious to anyone with an IQ of room temperature that the so called rape case was a frame,which was being actively encouraged by the sensitive faculty leadership and administration of the university.  Duke, and Edwards, and the Democratic party have just ignored the declaration of absolute innocence of the three wrongly accused, hoping that the world will eventually forget it.  In that respect, you are correct &#8211; they are just like the old racists in the  1960&#8242;s and early 1970&#8242;s, who want to forget about their bigotry.  </p>
<p>Yes, maybe there is some racial animus toward Obama.  But perhaps its just politics as usual &#8211; nasty remarks are nothing new, and neither party gets high marks for clean campaigning.  </p>
<p>My opinion and a buck buys a cuppa coffee</p>
<p>Orson</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/comment-page-1/#comment-108195</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/general/16555/are-false-rumors-about-obamas-religion-really-about-race/#comment-108195</guid>
		<description>Anyone who doesn&#039;t believe race will be a factor in Obama&#039;s bid for the presidency, independent of his actual qualifications is either living in a pipe-dream or simply refuses to admit it. Racism is alive and (un)well in the US, although it is usually much less overt - depending on the company. That said, I still believe he could go all the way in a squeeker of an election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who doesn&#8217;t believe race will be a factor in Obama&#8217;s bid for the presidency, independent of his actual qualifications is either living in a pipe-dream or simply refuses to admit it. Racism is alive and (un)well in the US, although it is usually much less overt &#8211; depending on the company. That said, I still believe he could go all the way in a squeeker of an election.</p>
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