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	<title>Comments on: New Life Church: Female Security Guard Shoots Gunman Dead at Church</title>
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		<title>By: Gunman</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-182395</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-182395</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Gunman...&lt;/strong&gt;

UPDATE: It&#8217;s been determined that one man wounded five persons and murdered four persons at bo [...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Gunman&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>UPDATE: It&#8217;s been determined that one man wounded five persons and murdered four persons at bo [...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lesley-Ann</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-108129</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesley-Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-108129</guid>
		<description>If this is not about religion being under attack would it be viewed more accurately as, the people who are housed in places of worship have become soft targets for the perpetrators of crimes such as these?  Christians are taught to reject the fear of the one who can destroy the body but rather fear the one who can destroy the soul.  Our hope is in a simple belief and it is the simplicity of our faith which places us in vulnerable positions.  Our instruction is to pray for the one who persecutes, whether that persecution is aimed at our faith or at our person.  What has happened is a tradgedy and no amount of conjecture, as to whether the motive was to bring the church &#039;under attack&#039; or not, is material. Spencer, is it possible to &#039;define the real issue&#039;.  I don&#039;t think so.  And what good is a definition anyway? There are not enough pages or ink to pen with, that could write the laws which would give the protection or provide that which we seek.  Hence the simplicity of the plan which has been passed down since the death of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this is not about religion being under attack would it be viewed more accurately as, the people who are housed in places of worship have become soft targets for the perpetrators of crimes such as these?  Christians are taught to reject the fear of the one who can destroy the body but rather fear the one who can destroy the soul.  Our hope is in a simple belief and it is the simplicity of our faith which places us in vulnerable positions.  Our instruction is to pray for the one who persecutes, whether that persecution is aimed at our faith or at our person.  What has happened is a tradgedy and no amount of conjecture, as to whether the motive was to bring the church &#8216;under attack&#8217; or not, is material. Spencer, is it possible to &#8216;define the real issue&#8217;.  I don&#8217;t think so.  And what good is a definition anyway? There are not enough pages or ink to pen with, that could write the laws which would give the protection or provide that which we seek.  Hence the simplicity of the plan which has been passed down since the death of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107702</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107702</guid>
		<description>Amen to J.Spencer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to J.Spencer.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107696</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107696</guid>
		<description>The use of this tragedy to prop a specious argument for religion being under &quot;attack&quot; quickly runs into difficulty when we realize the shooter was raised in a deeply religious home. I guess some folks just want to have it both ways. Sensible people will be trying to address the real issues and causes, not isolating one aspect of a tragedy to exploit it for divisive purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The use of this tragedy to prop a specious argument for religion being under &#8220;attack&#8221; quickly runs into difficulty when we realize the shooter was raised in a deeply religious home. I guess some folks just want to have it both ways. Sensible people will be trying to address the real issues and causes, not isolating one aspect of a tragedy to exploit it for divisive purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107665</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107665</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of sensible gun laws possible, without needing to repeal the second amendment - all of them trumped by the NRA gun lobby.

I don&#039;t know how many more massacres it will take, before the country realizes that our system is not working.

All the attention is on terrorism by foreigners.
What are these massacres doing if not terrorizing, even if it&#039;s done by our own? 
It&#039;s different when shoppers are killed by a US citizen?  
I son&#039;t think so.  The effect is the same, and the vicitms are just as dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of sensible gun laws possible, without needing to repeal the second amendment &#8211; all of them trumped by the NRA gun lobby.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how many more massacres it will take, before the country realizes that our system is not working.</p>
<p>All the attention is on terrorism by foreigners.<br />
What are these massacres doing if not terrorizing, even if it&#8217;s done by our own?<br />
It&#8217;s different when shoppers are killed by a US citizen?<br />
I son&#8217;t think so.  The effect is the same, and the vicitms are just as dead.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107662</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107662</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=321&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The following Pew report&lt;/a&gt; was issued showing recent views of gun control, and the underlying problems with people and society that may be involved with shootings, before and after the Virginia Tech shooting.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=40&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This report&lt;/a&gt; was issued about a year after the Columbine shootings.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=37&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This older report &lt;/a&gt;also shows there is support among many for gun control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=321" rel="nofollow">The following Pew report</a> was issued showing recent views of gun control, and the underlying problems with people and society that may be involved with shootings, before and after the Virginia Tech shooting.</p>
<p><a href="http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=40" rel="nofollow">This report</a> was issued about a year after the Columbine shootings.</p>
<p><a href="http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=37" rel="nofollow">This older report </a>also shows there is support among many for gun control.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107659</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107659</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a gun grabber and do not believe gun control is a panacea, and there is an awful lot of emotion-driven foolishness out there, but there is a good measure of public support for at least some kinds of gun control.  (&quot;Loophole&quot; closure has very high support.)  Usually it&#039;s aimed (no pun intended) at handguns, and a few specifically target (again, no pun intended) concealed or concealable weapons.

It would be bold, but the next President Clinton might seek to get the Second Amendment repealed.  Failing that, as some weapons already are illegal, additional ones could be made illegal (the concealable kind) or subject to licensure or the equivalent of the federal-permission-and-tax-payment that applies to suppressors and to machine guns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a gun grabber and do not believe gun control is a panacea, and there is an awful lot of emotion-driven foolishness out there, but there is a good measure of public support for at least some kinds of gun control.  (&#8220;Loophole&#8221; closure has very high support.)  Usually it&#8217;s aimed (no pun intended) at handguns, and a few specifically target (again, no pun intended) concealed or concealable weapons.</p>
<p>It would be bold, but the next President Clinton might seek to get the Second Amendment repealed.  Failing that, as some weapons already are illegal, additional ones could be made illegal (the concealable kind) or subject to licensure or the equivalent of the federal-permission-and-tax-payment that applies to suppressors and to machine guns.</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107645</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107645</guid>
		<description>&quot;“A knife takes courage; poison takes time. A gun requires neither.”

That&#039;s about the wisest saying I&#039;ve heard lately

What we have are a lot of unbalanced people combined with an ability for them to do their worst without much planning, at a safe distance, with little personal risk.

Guns are enablers,  much like the anonimity of the Internet enables verbal attacks. It&#039;s easy, it doesn&#039;t require much forethought, and there is little personal risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“A knife takes courage; poison takes time. A gun requires neither.”</p>
<p>That&#8217;s about the wisest saying I&#8217;ve heard lately</p>
<p>What we have are a lot of unbalanced people combined with an ability for them to do their worst without much planning, at a safe distance, with little personal risk.</p>
<p>Guns are enablers,  much like the anonimity of the Internet enables verbal attacks. It&#8217;s easy, it doesn&#8217;t require much forethought, and there is little personal risk.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107637</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107637</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;one form of lethality or another ... guns ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A right-wing guy whom I&#039;ve read a bit (who fled communist Central Europe years ago), is amazed we don&#039;t have gun control in this country.

&quot;A knife takes courage; poison takes time.  A gun requires neither.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>one form of lethality or another &#8230; guns &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>A right-wing guy whom I&#8217;ve read a bit (who fled communist Central Europe years ago), is amazed we don&#8217;t have gun control in this country.</p>
<p>&#8220;A knife takes courage; poison takes time.  A gun requires neither.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107636</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107636</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s no surprise to the observant:

Gunman &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5366389.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hated Christians&lt;/a&gt;&quot; -- law-enforcement official</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s no surprise to the observant:</p>
<p>Gunman &#8220;<a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5366389.html" rel="nofollow">hated Christians</a>&#8221; &#8212; law-enforcement official</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107622</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107622</guid>
		<description>Somebody, I hope you find the lie about your statement about attacks on religion, followed promptly by attacks on religion, entertaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody, I hope you find the lie about your statement about attacks on religion, followed promptly by attacks on religion, entertaining.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107602</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107602</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I can only say, that once again, likely the person or persons who were the shooters at the churches, will have had a history of instability that too many did not recognize for its homicidal and suicidal nature, or misinterpreted the severity of what they were seeing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;really? because i&#039;m pretty sure you could also say it&#039;s possible that the &quot;shooter&quot; was pretty much OK until one of the pedophilic elders of the church sexually abused them. 

or you could also say that they might have been pretty much OK until they were driven to the edge by any number of antibiological repressions that were forced upon them by the tragically repressed ministry that they quite possible could be taking revenge upon...

but then, that would just be speculation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I can only say, that once again, likely the person or persons who were the shooters at the churches, will have had a history of instability that too many did not recognize for its homicidal and suicidal nature, or misinterpreted the severity of what they were seeing.</p></blockquote>
<p>really? because i&#8217;m pretty sure you could also say it&#8217;s possible that the &#8220;shooter&#8221; was pretty much OK until one of the pedophilic elders of the church sexually abused them. </p>
<p>or you could also say that they might have been pretty much OK until they were driven to the edge by any number of antibiological repressions that were forced upon them by the tragically repressed ministry that they quite possible could be taking revenge upon&#8230;</p>
<p>but then, that would just be speculation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107601</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107601</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And they continue to insist that Religion in America is not under attack.&lt;/blockquote&gt;there are so many things wrong with this inflammatory statement, i don&#039;t even know where to start...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And they continue to insist that Religion in America is not under attack.</p></blockquote>
<p>there are so many things wrong with this inflammatory statement, i don&#8217;t even know where to start&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lynx</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107597</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107597</guid>
		<description>Somebody, please, be real. Not even Bill O&#039;Reilly would use this tragedy to push his culture war. Just because people die in a church does not mean that the intention was to go after religion. I&#039;m amazed this even has to be written down.

Dr. E, you do point out something many people know, that usually there are warning signs far before a person cracks, but I wonder: how do you know when it&#039;s gone far enough to take measures? I can imagine that the total number of disturbed people is far larger than the number who eventually crack and go on rampages. Many may live out their lives without ever harming anyone. The brother of a friend of mine is such an example. He&#039;s not well, hypocondriac and a control-freak, with uncontrollable anger whenever he doesn&#039;t get his way. He once threatened his family with a knife and went on medication. He&#039;s not taking that medication now and so far has not become violent again, but you can see his tendencies simmering under the surface. He&#039;s been told he needs help but declines. If he someday goes on a rampage I will not be surprised, but I don&#039;t see what one can do, or when the time is to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody, please, be real. Not even Bill O&#8217;Reilly would use this tragedy to push his culture war. Just because people die in a church does not mean that the intention was to go after religion. I&#8217;m amazed this even has to be written down.</p>
<p>Dr. E, you do point out something many people know, that usually there are warning signs far before a person cracks, but I wonder: how do you know when it&#8217;s gone far enough to take measures? I can imagine that the total number of disturbed people is far larger than the number who eventually crack and go on rampages. Many may live out their lives without ever harming anyone. The brother of a friend of mine is such an example. He&#8217;s not well, hypocondriac and a control-freak, with uncontrollable anger whenever he doesn&#8217;t get his way. He once threatened his family with a knife and went on medication. He&#8217;s not taking that medication now and so far has not become violent again, but you can see his tendencies simmering under the surface. He&#8217;s been told he needs help but declines. If he someday goes on a rampage I will not be surprised, but I don&#8217;t see what one can do, or when the time is to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Somebody</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107583</link>
		<dc:creator>Somebody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107583</guid>
		<description>And they continue to insist that Religion in America is not under attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And they continue to insist that Religion in America is not under attack.</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/comment-page-1/#comment-107575</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/society/guns/16434/new-life-church-female-security-guard-shoots-gunman-dead-at-church/#comment-107575</guid>
		<description>Tragic as it is, It is a difficult one to balance, is it not?  I know of an adolescent who turned in his female friend for threatening to kill herself and is now persona non grata in her book.  I complemented him on his courage, his desire to do the right thing and for caring....but I know it isn&#039;t easy, and she now keeps him at a distance.  

I wonder though if that is the only issue.  Do you believe that one form of lethality or another would be found by the one who is losing control?  Or would it help if we didn&#039;t have so many guns so readily available?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tragic as it is, It is a difficult one to balance, is it not?  I know of an adolescent who turned in his female friend for threatening to kill herself and is now persona non grata in her book.  I complemented him on his courage, his desire to do the right thing and for caring&#8230;.but I know it isn&#8217;t easy, and she now keeps him at a distance.  </p>
<p>I wonder though if that is the only issue.  Do you believe that one form of lethality or another would be found by the one who is losing control?  Or would it help if we didn&#8217;t have so many guns so readily available?</p>
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