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	<title>Comments on: Inquiry Begins Into Tapes’ Destruction</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107530</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107530</guid>
		<description>By the way, SD, while plenty of us don&#039;t care about the subprime loan problems (there is no &quot;crisis&quot; when so many of us aren&#039;t involved and don&#039;t care about it, as we aren&#039;t affected), those who are affected (who face foreclosure and worry about it while stuck in Atlanta traffic, which means for hours every day) of course see foreclosure and driving in Atlanta (which I hated when I lived there; antiquated roads, too many vehicles for them, and when freely flowing, people driving far too fast and stupidly, and who are very rude and crude -- run stop signs at full speed, often run red lights, lean on their horns at the slightest inconvenience, real or not) or having to defend against other drivers in Atlanta are far more important than the tape destruction, which is hardly the first misbehavior we have learned about, and about which most believe will end or change after the 2008 elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, SD, while plenty of us don&#8217;t care about the subprime loan problems (there is no &#8220;crisis&#8221; when so many of us aren&#8217;t involved and don&#8217;t care about it, as we aren&#8217;t affected), those who are affected (who face foreclosure and worry about it while stuck in Atlanta traffic, which means for hours every day) of course see foreclosure and driving in Atlanta (which I hated when I lived there; antiquated roads, too many vehicles for them, and when freely flowing, people driving far too fast and stupidly, and who are very rude and crude &#8212; run stop signs at full speed, often run red lights, lean on their horns at the slightest inconvenience, real or not) or having to defend against other drivers in Atlanta are far more important than the tape destruction, which is hardly the first misbehavior we have learned about, and about which most believe will end or change after the 2008 elections.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107528</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107528</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Once again the left of center in the MSM get excited about a virtual non-event.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a real event, SD, just subject to hype and over-politicizing it (as so many here have already done to a substantial degree).  Overdoing it may (and should) backfire against the Dems, but the GOP cannot be helped in any way, only harmed, by this.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members versus the government’s (at any level) to deal with crime, traffic, schools, or infrastucture.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not too much about torture, for it&#039;s long been known we tortured people, and so we&#039;re not shocked or outraged by it (nor are we that way about this event with the tapes, just surprised, disappointed, and disgusted more with all that has happened associated with Iraq).

I want to warn you that Bush is trying to do something that makes him once more occasionally like a Democrat -- concerning the foreclosure rate (there is no &quot;crisis,&quot; the subprime borrowers and lenders have nobody but themselves to blame, home prices ought to be much lower than they have become, and many of us have no problems related to these subprime shenanigans.  Meanwhile, Bush is doing what the GOP often does, act as Dems Lite, with the partial bailout and five-year rate freeze on some mortgages.  It is wrong, and worse: it is a &lt;strong&gt;MORAL HAZARD!&lt;/strong&gt;

(from an article on this bailout)

&lt;blockquote&gt;The expected backlash to the plan started immediately after the Administration announced it. Housing advocates said it leaves millions of struggling borrowers at risk of foreclosure. [NOTE: Democrats want more borrowers bailed out, and a rate freeze longer than five years.  -- DLS]  Others decried it as a shameful bailout of irresponsible lenders and borrowers.

&quot;President Bush&#039;s plan may make good politics, but it is terrible economics,&quot; said Edward Ketz, an accounting professor at Penn State University. &lt;strong&gt;&quot;It punishes those who have acted prudently and rewards bad decisions by homeowners who bought what they could not afford. It gives incentives for future homebuyers to act rashly, because they may believe Washington will rescue them from error and greed.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

Perhaps more significantly, Ketz and others warn the plan could further choke off the credit markets and result in higher mortgage rates in the long run.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Once again the left of center in the MSM get excited about a virtual non-event.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a real event, SD, just subject to hype and over-politicizing it (as so many here have already done to a substantial degree).  Overdoing it may (and should) backfire against the Dems, but the GOP cannot be helped in any way, only harmed, by this.</p>
<blockquote><p>Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members versus the government’s (at any level) to deal with crime, traffic, schools, or infrastucture.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not too much about torture, for it&#8217;s long been known we tortured people, and so we&#8217;re not shocked or outraged by it (nor are we that way about this event with the tapes, just surprised, disappointed, and disgusted more with all that has happened associated with Iraq).</p>
<p>I want to warn you that Bush is trying to do something that makes him once more occasionally like a Democrat &#8212; concerning the foreclosure rate (there is no &#8220;crisis,&#8221; the subprime borrowers and lenders have nobody but themselves to blame, home prices ought to be much lower than they have become, and many of us have no problems related to these subprime shenanigans.  Meanwhile, Bush is doing what the GOP often does, act as Dems Lite, with the partial bailout and five-year rate freeze on some mortgages.  It is wrong, and worse: it is a <strong>MORAL HAZARD!</strong></p>
<p>(from an article on this bailout)</p>
<blockquote><p>The expected backlash to the plan started immediately after the Administration announced it. Housing advocates said it leaves millions of struggling borrowers at risk of foreclosure. [NOTE: Democrats want more borrowers bailed out, and a rate freeze longer than five years.  -- DLS]  Others decried it as a shameful bailout of irresponsible lenders and borrowers.</p>
<p>&#8220;President Bush&#8217;s plan may make good politics, but it is terrible economics,&#8221; said Edward Ketz, an accounting professor at Penn State University. <strong>&#8220;It punishes those who have acted prudently and rewards bad decisions by homeowners who bought what they could not afford. It gives incentives for future homebuyers to act rashly, because they may believe Washington will rescue them from error and greed.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>Perhaps more significantly, Ketz and others warn the plan could further choke off the credit markets and result in higher mortgage rates in the long run.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107527</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107527</guid>
		<description>So could I, Holly -- I was reading college-level material in third grade, for example.  I bet you were and bet a number of people here were, too.

* * *

The Democrats have to watch it, because while the rabid farther-left will push them and the partisan, not principled in the Democratic Congress will want to push things way too much (obviously becoming a political vendetta once more rather than a legitimate objection to and demand for accountability about a wrongful act), this should not be neglected by the Dems.

I was thinking earlier about how it could be used in a negative campaign commercial toward individual GOP presidential candidates or against the GOP in general.  It would feature either the word &quot;EVIDENCE&quot; appearing followed by a red X or circle and slash over it, or show one or more dark-and-sinister-looking spy types with coats that in earlier days would have girlie magazines or illicit drugs for sale, showing the evil Republicans looking around and tossing one or more tapes (big VCR style), with &quot;EVIDENCE&quot; marked on the box (hand held over garbage or other device momentarily showing tape or box with &quot;EVIDENCE&quot; stamped on it in yellow or red, for effect and emphasis) into a wastebasket or into a device marked &quot;SHREDDER.&quot;  (At the end of the act, they may look at each other and gloat, snicker, or shake hands, or give each other the thumbs-up sign.)

Heh, heh, heh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So could I, Holly &#8212; I was reading college-level material in third grade, for example.  I bet you were and bet a number of people here were, too.</p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>The Democrats have to watch it, because while the rabid farther-left will push them and the partisan, not principled in the Democratic Congress will want to push things way too much (obviously becoming a political vendetta once more rather than a legitimate objection to and demand for accountability about a wrongful act), this should not be neglected by the Dems.</p>
<p>I was thinking earlier about how it could be used in a negative campaign commercial toward individual GOP presidential candidates or against the GOP in general.  It would feature either the word &#8220;EVIDENCE&#8221; appearing followed by a red X or circle and slash over it, or show one or more dark-and-sinister-looking spy types with coats that in earlier days would have girlie magazines or illicit drugs for sale, showing the evil Republicans looking around and tossing one or more tapes (big VCR style), with &#8220;EVIDENCE&#8221; marked on the box (hand held over garbage or other device momentarily showing tape or box with &#8220;EVIDENCE&#8221; stamped on it in yellow or red, for effect and emphasis) into a wastebasket or into a device marked &#8220;SHREDDER.&#8221;  (At the end of the act, they may look at each other and gloat, snicker, or shake hands, or give each other the thumbs-up sign.)</p>
<p>Heh, heh, heh</p>
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		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107497</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107497</guid>
		<description>&quot;Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members &quot;

If they don&#039;t care, then my hat&#039;s off to those elites who do.

Hve we reaaly sunk so low that a traffic problem  can even be in the same sentence as torture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members &#8221;</p>
<p>If they don&#8217;t care, then my hat&#8217;s off to those elites who do.</p>
<p>Hve we reaaly sunk so low that a traffic problem  can even be in the same sentence as torture?</p>
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		<title>By: kritt</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107479</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 01:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107479</guid>
		<description>Let the fingerpointing, stonewalling and false claims of executive privilege begin!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the fingerpointing, stonewalling and false claims of executive privilege begin!</p>
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		<title>By: Megaman_X</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107475</link>
		<dc:creator>Megaman_X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 01:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107475</guid>
		<description>It is a big deal, superdestroyer. If the investigation ends with the members of the CIA being indicted for using torture during interrogation, at least those people sitting in traffic in the Atlanta area won&#039;t feel ashamed of their country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a big deal, superdestroyer. If the investigation ends with the members of the CIA being indicted for using torture during interrogation, at least those people sitting in traffic in the Atlanta area won&#8217;t feel ashamed of their country.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly in Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107468</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly in Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107468</guid>
		<description>YES. 

BTW, I could read at the 12th grade level in elementary school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YES. </p>
<p>BTW, I could read at the 12th grade level in elementary school.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-107466</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/justice-department/16416/ap-via-ny-times-inquiry-begins-into-tapes%e2%80%99-destruction/#comment-107466</guid>
		<description>Once again the left of center in the MSM get excited about a virtual non-event.  I guess it is asking too much for the media to focus on policy issues such as why Congress cannot pass a budget or how the U.S. will lower carbon emission while maintain an open border, unlimited immigration de facto policy. 

The obsession of the media on this issue demonstrates how far the elites are from the middle class.  Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members versus the government&#039;s (at any level) to deal with crime, traffic, schools, or infrastucture.

Maybe if every high school graduate could read at the 12th grade level and maybe if the foreclosure rate was at a historic low, there would be time to worry about the inside the beltway issues like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again the left of center in the MSM get excited about a virtual non-event.  I guess it is asking too much for the media to focus on policy issues such as why Congress cannot pass a budget or how the U.S. will lower carbon emission while maintain an open border, unlimited immigration de facto policy. </p>
<p>The obsession of the media on this issue demonstrates how far the elites are from the middle class.  Does anyone sitting in traffic the Atlanta area really care about torturing AQ members versus the government&#8217;s (at any level) to deal with crime, traffic, schools, or infrastucture.</p>
<p>Maybe if every high school graduate could read at the 12th grade level and maybe if the foreclosure rate was at a historic low, there would be time to worry about the inside the beltway issues like this.</p>
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