<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Final Word on Beauchamp</title>
	<atom:link href="http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/</link>
	<description>An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:38:56 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: David Schraub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-107020</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-107020</guid>
		<description>&quot;David Schraub&#039;s a devil&quot; -- I&#039;m a big New Jersey Devils fan.

In retrospect, I&#039;d change the url, but hindsight....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;David Schraub&#8217;s a devil&#8221; &#8212; I&#8217;m a big New Jersey Devils fan.</p>
<p>In retrospect, I&#8217;d change the url, but hindsight&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106933</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106933</guid>
		<description>David,

Yeah, I didn&#039;t click over to your site - I didn&#039;t realize it was yours (dsadevil?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Yeah, I didn&#8217;t click over to your site &#8211; I didn&#8217;t realize it was yours (dsadevil?).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Schraub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106912</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 04:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106912</guid>
		<description>Okay Entropy -- you know my posts well enough to know they are generally pointers to my TDL work. The Foer piece is linked to quite prominently at the top of that post, and is the primary basis for everything I&#039;ve said here.

It&#039;s ALWAYS a bad idea to read my pointers without reading the underlying post in question (even if I was linking to someone else, they deserve to be read in their own words, and unless it&#039;s a pure cross-post the TDL post will be far more fleshed out and expansive).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay Entropy &#8212; you know my posts well enough to know they are generally pointers to my TDL work. The Foer piece is linked to quite prominently at the top of that post, and is the primary basis for everything I&#8217;ve said here.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ALWAYS a bad idea to read my pointers without reading the underlying post in question (even if I was linking to someone else, they deserve to be read in their own words, and unless it&#8217;s a pure cross-post the TDL post will be far more fleshed out and expansive).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106904</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106904</guid>
		<description>Hmm, while surfing I just came across the fact that there is new info on this subject. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=51f6dc92-7f1d-4d5b-aebe-94668b7bfb32&amp;p=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David, why didn&#039;t you link it in your post?&lt;/a&gt;

After reading the entire piece, I agree with the last paragraphs:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In retrospect, we never should have put Beauchamp in this situation. He was a young soldier in a war zone, an untried writer without journalistic training. We published his accounts of sensitive events while granting him the shield of anonymity--which, in the wrong hands, can become license to exaggerate, if not fabricate.

When I last spoke with Beauchamp in early November, he continued to stand by his stories. Unfortunately, the standards of this magazine require more than that. And, in light of the evidence available to us, after months of intensive re-reporting, we cannot be confident that the events in his pieces occurred in exactly the manner that he described them. Without that essential confidence, we cannot stand by these stories.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In light me actually reading discovering and reading TNR&#039;s latest on the subject, my previous comments are a bit unfair to them.  Although there is clearly a bit of self-serving CYA in the piece, I don&#039;t see it as a completely unfair account based on what&#039;s known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, while surfing I just came across the fact that there is new info on this subject. <a href="http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=51f6dc92-7f1d-4d5b-aebe-94668b7bfb32&#038;p=1" rel="nofollow">David, why didn&#8217;t you link it in your post?</a></p>
<p>After reading the entire piece, I agree with the last paragraphs:</p>
<blockquote><p>In retrospect, we never should have put Beauchamp in this situation. He was a young soldier in a war zone, an untried writer without journalistic training. We published his accounts of sensitive events while granting him the shield of anonymity&#8211;which, in the wrong hands, can become license to exaggerate, if not fabricate.</p>
<p>When I last spoke with Beauchamp in early November, he continued to stand by his stories. Unfortunately, the standards of this magazine require more than that. And, in light of the evidence available to us, after months of intensive re-reporting, we cannot be confident that the events in his pieces occurred in exactly the manner that he described them. Without that essential confidence, we cannot stand by these stories.</p></blockquote>
<p>In light me actually reading discovering and reading TNR&#8217;s latest on the subject, my previous comments are a bit unfair to them.  Although there is clearly a bit of self-serving CYA in the piece, I don&#8217;t see it as a completely unfair account based on what&#8217;s known.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106899</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106899</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;TNR’s independent reporting&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Independent - Ha!  As if TNR doesn&#039;t have a dog in this fight or its own reputation to protect in its investigation of itself.  How can anyone reasonably call an organization investigating itself &quot;independent?&quot; 

And, of course, the allegations of coercion by the military are just that -allegations.  And such allegations are quite far-fetch when one considers the number of sworn statements and the degree to which they agree in character and content.  Additionally, Foer is doing quite a bit of coercion himself in that phone conversation....

It seems to me you give a very large benefit-of-doubt to TNR and almost none to anything that contradicts their story....

At the very least, TNR should retract the story until it can be verified, unless journalistic standards have changed in recent years of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>TNR’s independent reporting</p></blockquote>
<p>Independent &#8211; Ha!  As if TNR doesn&#8217;t have a dog in this fight or its own reputation to protect in its investigation of itself.  How can anyone reasonably call an organization investigating itself &#8220;independent?&#8221; </p>
<p>And, of course, the allegations of coercion by the military are just that -allegations.  And such allegations are quite far-fetch when one considers the number of sworn statements and the degree to which they agree in character and content.  Additionally, Foer is doing quite a bit of coercion himself in that phone conversation&#8230;.</p>
<p>It seems to me you give a very large benefit-of-doubt to TNR and almost none to anything that contradicts their story&#8230;.</p>
<p>At the very least, TNR should retract the story until it can be verified, unless journalistic standards have changed in recent years of course.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Schraub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106895</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106895</guid>
		<description>Entropy: If you read Foer&#039;s report, you&#039;d note two significant problems (&quot;context and caveats&quot;, as a different magazine might put it), with those two &quot;exhibits&quot;.

On exhibit A, Foer details the tremendous amount of pressure the soldiers were under to repudiate Beauchamp. Prior to this duress, a great many of his fellow men in uniform were backing him up. More importantly, a close read of many of the statements shows the soldiers took pains to try &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to contradict their previous statements, while still satisfying their superior officers. Put simply, the official army investigation was done under significant coercion and lacks credibility compared to TNR&#039;s independent reporting.

On exhibit B, Beauchamp gave the words in that transcript &lt;i&gt;while being watched by his commanding officers&lt;/i&gt; -- not exactly a good environment for candor, particularly since they had already made their displeasure with Beauchamp&#039;s stories quite clear by rendering him incommunicado for weeks after he revealed his name. And even there, Beauchamp refused to repudiate the stories, he just expressed a desire to let the whole thing drop -- quite reasonable, given what he was being put through.

This is why Foer&#039;s investigation and context was so important. It is far and away the most complete accounting of the whole ordeal that we have, and it really colors the witch-hunt that groups like the NRO were conducting here. While the evidence in Beauchamp&#039;s favor may not be strong enough to have warranted publication, I still think on balance it weighs more heavily in favor of his truthfulness than against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entropy: If you read Foer&#8217;s report, you&#8217;d note two significant problems (&#8221;context and caveats&#8221;, as a different magazine might put it), with those two &#8220;exhibits&#8221;.</p>
<p>On exhibit A, Foer details the tremendous amount of pressure the soldiers were under to repudiate Beauchamp. Prior to this duress, a great many of his fellow men in uniform were backing him up. More importantly, a close read of many of the statements shows the soldiers took pains to try <i>not</i> to contradict their previous statements, while still satisfying their superior officers. Put simply, the official army investigation was done under significant coercion and lacks credibility compared to TNR&#8217;s independent reporting.</p>
<p>On exhibit B, Beauchamp gave the words in that transcript <i>while being watched by his commanding officers</i> &#8212; not exactly a good environment for candor, particularly since they had already made their displeasure with Beauchamp&#8217;s stories quite clear by rendering him incommunicado for weeks after he revealed his name. And even there, Beauchamp refused to repudiate the stories, he just expressed a desire to let the whole thing drop &#8212; quite reasonable, given what he was being put through.</p>
<p>This is why Foer&#8217;s investigation and context was so important. It is far and away the most complete accounting of the whole ordeal that we have, and it really colors the witch-hunt that groups like the NRO were conducting here. While the evidence in Beauchamp&#8217;s favor may not be strong enough to have warranted publication, I still think on balance it weighs more heavily in favor of his truthfulness than against.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106869</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106869</guid>
		<description>David,

First is &lt;a href=&quot;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Legal_Review_of_AR_15-6_Investigation_Regarding_Allegations_of_Soldier_Misconduct_Published_in_The_New_Republic.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;exhibit A&lt;/a&gt;, the official Army investigation.  Part of that investigation includes sworn statements by many soldiers, including Beauchamp, that show his claims were false.

Second is the leaked phone transcript (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2007/10/24/1.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;part 1&lt;/a&gt; &amp; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2007/10/24/2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;part 2&lt;/a&gt;) between Foer and Beauchamp himself where Beauchamp refuses to affirm that his stories were accurate.

So what evidence is there the stories were accurate when an official investigation finds them false and the author refuses to stand by them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>First is <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Legal_Review_of_AR_15-6_Investigation_Regarding_Allegations_of_Soldier_Misconduct_Published_in_The_New_Republic.pdf" rel="nofollow">exhibit A</a>, the official Army investigation.  Part of that investigation includes sworn statements by many soldiers, including Beauchamp, that show his claims were false.</p>
<p>Second is the leaked phone transcript (<a href="http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2007/10/24/1.pdf" rel="nofollow">part 1</a> &#038; <a href="http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2007/10/24/2.pdf" rel="nofollow">part 2</a>) between Foer and Beauchamp himself where Beauchamp refuses to affirm that his stories were accurate.</p>
<p>So what evidence is there the stories were accurate when an official investigation finds them false and the author refuses to stand by them?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Schraub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106837</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106837</guid>
		<description>Entropy: I&#039;m confused by that assertion. If anything, there seems to be a preponderance of evidence that Beauchamp was telling the truth (with the exception of the Forward Base/Kuwait mistake, which looks to have been made in good faith).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entropy: I&#8217;m confused by that assertion. If anything, there seems to be a preponderance of evidence that Beauchamp was telling the truth (with the exception of the Forward Base/Kuwait mistake, which looks to have been made in good faith).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106809</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106809</guid>
		<description>Maybe Kay-lo and her boy in Lebanon will get into the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Kay-lo and her boy in Lebanon will get into the story.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Entropy</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106804</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106804</guid>
		<description>TNR has done a mediocre job of CYA, IMO.  They cannot bring themselves to admit that Beauchamp made up most of his stories despite the fact the evidence is overwhelming that he did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TNR has done a mediocre job of CYA, IMO.  They cannot bring themselves to admit that Beauchamp made up most of his stories despite the fact the evidence is overwhelming that he did.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: domajot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106793</link>
		<dc:creator>domajot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106793</guid>
		<description>I also think that TNR did a reasonble, good  job in the mop-up phase of revelations.

Initially, they seem to have been naive or negligent, a la the NYT and the Iraq war. That&#039;s a serious lapse in judgment, and they have eat crow just the NYT has had to.

By now, this has become fodder for the usual political games, and few of the commenters are seriously interested in what happened and how it happened.  It&#039;s purely a question of how this can be used  in the political wars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think that TNR did a reasonble, good  job in the mop-up phase of revelations.</p>
<p>Initially, they seem to have been naive or negligent, a la the NYT and the Iraq war. That&#8217;s a serious lapse in judgment, and they have eat crow just the NYT has had to.</p>
<p>By now, this has become fodder for the usual political games, and few of the commenters are seriously interested in what happened and how it happened.  It&#8217;s purely a question of how this can be used  in the political wars.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Schraub</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106775</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106775</guid>
		<description>I feel like you might be reading a bit too much into a post title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like you might be reading a bit too much into a post title.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: reader_iam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106774</link>
		<dc:creator>reader_iam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106774</guid>
		<description>It strikes me that if you really stand by that post title, you might wish to consider whether, in the long run, you might come to be embarrassed yourself.

(And I&#039;m not a right-winger, by the way. Good luck making that argument.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that if you really stand by that post title, you might wish to consider whether, in the long run, you might come to be embarrassed yourself.</p>
<p>(And I&#8217;m not a right-winger, by the way. Good luck making that argument.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: reader_iam</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106773</link>
		<dc:creator>reader_iam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106773</guid>
		<description>Are you kidding?

The &lt;strong&gt;final &lt;/strong&gt;word? On what? Beachamp? TNR&#039;s approach? Franklin Foer&#039;s choices in writing this article? Etc.?

You&#039;ve gotta be kidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you kidding?</p>
<p>The <strong>final </strong>word? On what? Beachamp? TNR&#8217;s approach? Franklin Foer&#8217;s choices in writing this article? Etc.?</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve gotta be kidding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Plear</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/comment-page-1/#comment-106766</link>
		<dc:creator>Plear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/media/16338/the-final-word-on-beauchamp/#comment-106766</guid>
		<description>Whoa, did I just stumble onto the Daily Kos?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa, did I just stumble onto the Daily Kos?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
