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The Sin of Appeasement
This should make it perfectly clear that negotiating with Arab terrorists is not just wrong but also futile:
Jerusalem Post: Hamas demands UN rescind ’47 partition
Hamas on Thursday called on the UN to rescind the 1947 decision to partition Palestine into two states, one for Jews and one for Arabs.
The group said in a statement, released on the 60th anniversary of the UN vote, that “Palestine is Arab Islamic land, from the river to the sea, including Jerusalem… there is no room in it for the Jews.”
Regarding the partition decision, Hamas said that “correcting mistakes is nothing to be ashamed of, but prolonging it is exploitation.”
16 Responses to “The Sin of Appeasement”
Hamas is not taking part in the negotiatons, Abbas is.
Hamas is not ‘the Arabs”, , BTW.
The sin of appeasement extends to extemists on both sides, or as many sides as there are.
Holly – For thousands of years enemies tried to delegitimize their foes. This kind of rhetoric is part and parcel of the process. All such disputes are eventually settled. Just as Egypt and Jordan, who said some pretty nasty things about Israel in the 50′s and 60′s, negotiated with Israel so will the Palestinians, Hamas included.
It seems to me that the Israeli government has abandoned Golda Meir’s position that “there is no such thing as Palestinians”. I’m sure negotiations with Hamas will eventually produce a similar retraction regarding Israelis.
And despite what someone may have naively, or idealistically, said earlier, Hamas is not a serious, legitimate party in any peace process.
Hamas is committed to Israel’s destruction and has held demonstrations against Annapolis, i.e., against any peace with Israel.
But there’s the scent of Munich in the air… (Hamas sympathizers are among the many commenters responding on that page)
By the way, Holly, I don’t compare Annapolis to Munich — there is a lack of substance so far in Annapolis and nobody sane has any big, hopeful prospects for “progress.” I will say there are some parallels with Munich, not limited to Annapolis but to how the pro-oil, pro-Arab Bush administration (the people who have most strongly advocated for a new Palestinian nation, in addition) in that it is Israel that is largely being pressed more than it ought (given the nearly one-way record that condemns Israel’s enemies historically, not Israel), and there is remote elitism at “work” here, notably the Road Map, involving (and what a stupid as well as elitist name!) the Quartet.
“Hamas is not taking part in the negotiatons, Abbas is.
Hamas is not ‘the Arabs”, , BTW.”
Well they may not represent the arabs, but they were elected by the palestinians so it is fair to say they represent them. Their request is so stupid as well. After wars borders get redrawn, and WWII was the biggest, and palestine was on the losing side. You can fight it all you want, but it’ll get them just what they have. A homeland turned into a prison.
I think it was a huge mistake for us to punish palestine so much after Hamas was elected. For starters it showed that our interest in the democratic process went only so far as it was predetermined in our favor. Second, I think actually being responsible for the people would have had some softening effect on Hamas. Up till now their one obligation has been to sow as much terror as possible so they were free to do just that.
But put them in charge of making the trains run on time and keeping people alive for a change instead of killing them? They would be forced to modify their approach or they would fail to make the situation any better for the people, which would then allow a popular opposition party to form and show Hamas for what it is. Just a bunch of thugs unfit to speak for a people. Screw up after screw up.
“And despite what someone may have naively, or idealistically, said earlier, Hamas is not a serious, legitimate party in any peace process.”
DLS – Why might I ask is Hamas any different than Egypt and it’s people. They hated Israel and fought mulitple wars against Israel trying to ” throw the Jews into the sea”. In 1973 Egyptians killed thousands of Israelis. Yet by 1978 they were in intense negotiations with Israel over a peace treaty.
Why is Hamas any different from other Arabs who have eventually made peace with Israel? I was in Israel just prior to both the 1967 and 1973 wars and the vitrol coming from the arabs back then makes Hamas look like Boy Scouts.
It’s different with every bomb, gun, rocket, mine, anti-tank weapon, mortar, or other weapon that it uses, for starters.
Egypt and its people aren’t dedicated to Israel’s destruction (even if many have been trained to hate Israel from birth) and more importantly, do not constitute a criminal organization that attacks, maims, and kills Israelis (as well as fellow Arabs).
The thing is, while territorial concessions by Israel are highly controversial, normal people would not find the following particularly upsetting, while the likes of Hamas would:
(map)
How many Egyptians, with the blessing of their government, blew themselves up to kill Israeli civilians and also didn’t care if foreign tourists were caught in the blast? Hamas is a terrorist organization who even now still believes in the elimination of Israel and the death or expulsion of all Jews in the area. They have made this quite clear over and over again. They have also made it clear that they will not negotiate on any meaningful issues with Israel. How many more decades should everyone else wait for peace negotiations, jdledell? Because if Hamas must take part for them to be meaningful you’ll have a very long wait indeed.
Jim and DLS – You guys are obviously too young to remember what it was like in the Mideast back in the days of Nasser. Until 1978 you would be hard pressed to find one single Egyptian who did not believe in the death and destruction of Israel.
My first visit to Israel was in 1956 for my Bar Mitzvah. I just happened to be there when Israel attacked Egypt along with the French and British. From the day of Israel’s founding there were cross border attacks and mysterious bombings in Israel.
Civilians were killed and they have never been a serious impediment to mideast rage, on both sides. You guys think Hamas is something special – they are not. They are just thugs like many who have gone before. Nassar puts to shame Haniyeh or Mashaal in the thug contest.
Pssst!
Hamas is not, nor will it be, at Annapolis. No one is negotiating with Hamas.
In fact, it is Abbas who will have to deal with Hamas, should there actually be any progress achieved in the negotiatons.
Abbas can’t deal with Hamas without outside support, which is one reason the participation of the other Arab countries was deemed so important.
I have a lot of doubt about the sincerity of those other Arab countries. They each have their own agendas. Suspicions about sicnerity are the name of the game all around.
Getting bsck to reality, however, there is no doubt that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is inflaming the region and the globe. To refuse to even try to damp down the flames would put Israel in the postion of being the one standing in the way of a resolution. That’s not a good place for Israel to be, as it, too, is dependent on outside support.
It would be foolhardy for Israel to expect unending support just on its say-so. That’s not the way the world works.
The world is seldom about being fair. Support for Israel is waning, it seems to me, as unfair as that may be. Crying ‘foul’ is not enough to rekindle aggressive support. Israel has to calculate and calculaate hard what it’s survival will truly take.
To participate in negotiations, and thus avoid the role of being seen as obstructionist, is a smart move.
The world is watching!
Who’s been doing it? It’s not all Arabs doing it.
Today, it often is Hamas. Hamas does not want peace. Hamas shouldn’t be appeased, much less hoped to become a partner in some peace process.
Hamas’s (and some others’) irrational as well as evil refusal to be peaceful and to seek Israel’s destruction works against the interests of all in solving all the problems of achieving peace, including some issues that really aren’t issues, such as the so-called “right of return.”
There is no such thing, no right of the 1946 refugees to return to their homes, and of course the descendents of these people have absolutely no claims as well as rights whatsoever.
But here’s something I have discussed before, which merits reappearance here, because it shows what is impossible with the existence as well as presence of the likes of Hamas.
The right of return could be accepted in full, including the ability of descendents of the 1946 refugees to go live west of the Green Line (they have no rights, but as a practical matter, they would have a claim to inheritance of homes reoccupied and reowned by the people of 1946, after the death of the 1946 people), in exchange for retention of most or all of the settlements east of the Green Line. While the Green Line is not an inviolable limit of Israeli possession and jurisdiction, it is a practical basis for constructing a complex arrangement that resembles the Cooch Behar enclave complex (with Indian territory within Pakistan and Pakistani territory within India). There are even multiple levels of enclave depth in this complex.
A map of the complex can be found here. Imagine such an arrangement on either side of the Green Line, with primarily Jewish land west of the Green Line with Jewish enclaves east of it, and primarily Arab-Muslim land east of the Green Line, with Arab-Muslim enclaves west of it.
This would satisfy many if not most idealists. (The main boundary might be modified from the Green Line slightly to place as many close-by Jewish enclaves to the west of the new line and Arab-Muslim enclaves to the east of the new line.) However, this is nothing but an impossible dream given the nature and behavior of Hamas and too many like them.
A smaller, cleaner page with the Kooch Behar enclave complex map can be found here.
The enclave complex and life there is discussed here.
It never ceases to amaze me how much easier to talk about this with Isralis, who acually live in Israel and experience the stress on a daily basis, than with those who don’t but presume to dictate to Israel what it should or shoulg not do.
First of all. NO ONE IS NEGOTIAING WITH HAMAS. hAMAS IS NOT, NOR WILL IT BE, AT ANNAPOLIS.
Israel’s Foreign Misnister will be participating, however, in negotiations with ABBAS.
Thosw who have a problem with that, would do better to address their protests to Israeli
authorities,.
jdledell, you still didn’t address my points. First, I do remember those days. Secondly, if we wait another 30 years for Hamas to moderate what group just like them will have sprung up? Will we have to wait for them? And you definitely didn’t address the ongoing terrorist nature of Hamas.